Tropol Monofin - a Fondueset Review

[cal]

Hi "Swiss Champ" Michi ;-)

Hi Miguel

are you the "long safety miguel" from the depth championships? :-D

How much did you pay for shipping and customs?
Miguel

The fin was 330€. Since the whole thing was kind of urgent lubos sent it via TNT which was 81€. Normal Czeck Post would be somewaht arround 32€. The swiss customs didn't claim monney up to now...

Grüessli, Michi

 

[trux]

Lubos asked me to post some info he gave me - he seems to be little bit shy to intervene in this thread and influencing it himself, although he follows the discussion.

He explained that the development of the freediving fin got longer than planned, and that it was for several reasons. Primarily he got problems with the former supplier of the material for footpockets and had to search a new one. That issue is solved, and it looks that the new material is better suited for this purpose - it is lighter and stronger. Then there were some other urgent projects that the company needed to address promptly, and also the uncertainty about the real needs of freedivers. The feedback from the community both here on DB, and on the forum at Tropol's website was not too big, and there were often opposite demands. The main question remains the angle - while some people ask for 30° angle, others prefer lower one.

Currently Lubos thinks that offering two types of fins with 15° and 30° may be the best solution. They are also redesigning the footpockets, not only to allow for a bigger angle, but also to adjust their buoyancy.

 

[Fondueset]

Very exciting! Michi - I am also looking forward to your review.

 

[titan]

:thankyouto trux and lupos

 

[Kars]

Interesting developments, thanks for sharing Trux and Lubos!

I think 25 Degrees and 15 would be nice. 15 for the monofin market, the fast and flexible pro's. 25 for the slower swimming, gliding freedivers. Excellent idea.

Recently thanks to DB and people like Titan, I got to thinking about the importance of the rubber used, and how it is used. I think the rubber is of huge importance for the feel of the fin, the character of the fin if you like. To me it is logical to not only have the blade stiffness vary but also the behaviour of the foot pocket.
If I recall correctly Water Way Classic fins use different stiffness's rubber to match the difference of blade stiffness. I don't know if there is such option for their hyperfin model foot pockets, but I do think it's a thing to keep in mind ordering a fin. What do you guys think?

I must give Lubos much credit here, because he has put so much dedication and research in making his fin the best he can. Lubos I think you can already be proud of what you've accomplished, and you continuation to improved your fin even further is very nice too! Keep it up, and I hope many people try and discover your well polished product and quick service!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[titan]

My guess is, by what the fondueset description the footpockets are made from the same rubber as the new gara professional fins it has litle elastacity wich permit the footpocket to adapt to your foot and the suport heel gives an perfect confort performance marriage I truly believe that with a 25/30 angle would make this fin the "DEAL" I just waiting for late review to see about blade stifness I hope tropol make just a litle softy like nemo medium blade looks like butter:inlove

the only shame is that I'm not gonna have my new monofin at time for nordic deep :waterwork

 

[titan]

Kars do you know when lupos will have the freediving version ready?

 

[Fondueset]

I was in the pool today - again doing sprints. Not quite so fast as yesterday, however - as I nearly felt sick! Again I use no socks an was able to stand and walk immediately.

I've had this fin awhile now - and put some distance on it - other than scratches from zebra mussels there are no signs of wear or unglueing.

I want to point out again the earlier post about angles - they are measure using two methods - one says 19 - the other 15.

I agree with Kars on the angle issue. I think the second measuring method is closer to my feeling with this fin.

 

[trux]

Titan, if you speak about one of the Tropol's owners, then it is not Lupos, but Lubos. Actually "Luboš", pronounced "Loo-bosh". And Kars probably does not know when the freediving version will be ready. In fact I'd tell that Lubos does not know it yet either, but I will tell you as soon as I get some news from him. Or perhaps Lubos will announce it alone when he can better estimate the date.

 

[titan]

Lubos already emailed me probably until the end of year we will have a new star on the monofins thx

 

[trux]

Actually I think that with a small design change, a footpocket with much less mass and volume could be achieved. Less mass means less energy spent when swimming, and less material used at the manufacturing. The reduced shape would also pose much less drag, farther improving the performance, while in the same time allowing for much bigger blade angle.

I mentioned similar design already in the Sporasub Revolution fins thread (in this post), where the footpockets are completely illogically built - with toes rising up, causing so very huge drag. In Tropol's case the toes are flat, so they are definitely better than in the Sporasub shoes, but the natural position of a straightened foot is far to be flat. The foot creates natural arc, that needs to be copied by the footpocket for achieving ideal ergonomy, optimal power transfer, and minimal drag.

I designed the following picture that shows the footpocket as I imagine. At the top, you can see a photo of my foot in a straightened, though naturally relaxe position, as it is the case in the gliding phase. On the second position there is "my" footpocket superimposed over the foot. On the third position, there is the same footpocket alone. And at the bottom, there is the current Tropol footpocket of the same foot size. As you can see, the volume of the used material is much bigger, while allowing for less angle. At bigger angle at the current flat footpocket, the material needed to fill the space between the foot, and the blade would require even more material, causing so even more drag, and making the fin heavier.

The image I created is not even yet optimal - I think it can be done better, with less mass, and optimal shape. Now, the arc of the blade under the feet may complicate the manufacturing in comparison to flat blades, but I do not think it would be too hard laminating the blade in that shape.

Well, Lubos, that's just my two cents, but perhaps it would be worth of considering to look at it, when already designing new molds.

​

 

[Fondueset]

Trux - very nice graphics work I think maintaining the foot at such an angle would result is bad cramping in the arch as well as impeded circulation. It is a nice idea - but I think it would not work so well.

Of course I could be wrong - I just notice that during long dives I must be careful to avoid flexing the arch too much.

 

[trux]

I do not think so, Fondueset. I really took the photo in a rather relaxed position without any significant strain. And my old bones are far to be flexible, so at experienced finswimmers, the foot would be arced much more. Quite opositely, I think that when you use the practically flat bottom footpocket, and try to flex your feet, it causes you enorm strain, because you have to fight with your muscles against the footpocket form.

 

[trux]

And yet another possibility, allowing for likely even more streamlined design, would be mounting the blade at the top of the feet, not at the bottom. Cressi Gara Professional bi-fins are designed in that way. It allows using flat blade, and low volume of rubber material without any long "noses" or "bridges" for achieving the angle. Additionally, human legs are stronger in the forwards motion, so actually mounting the blades on the top of the feet makes more sense than keeping them under them.

 

[titan]

woaa trux is on brainstorm think gara professional idea is the best to make a great footpocket and the angle of the gara professional is great the rubber used in both gara prossional and tropol foot pockets is just delicious best comfort and the suport heel of tropol and the design of the gara do not allow any loose in performance

 

[cal]

Hi all

So, i managed to swim my tropol M4 yesterday. We ususally start with static and do the dynamics afterwards. But I couldn't wait, put on some soap and then the fins on and juped in the deep pool with the springboard. I wasn't wearing gogles so i couldn't see anything but the blue pool. I did a few kicks and... hit the wall. ouch.

The first impression confirmed my impression of the fin to be quite hard, but was very good and I finaly managed take it off to do statics

After statics I did dynamics with both my glide fin and the lubos fin. It was no problem to get into the fin using soap. The Footpokets are very, very snug compared to my glide. The material is a lot softer and the "cut" fits my feet way better. But - I have very narrow feet... The colleague with the same shoe size was barely able to get in and had no chance to do one kick. As soon he was in his feet started to cramp (and he is very used to monos). For me it's "just OK".

The same goes with the size. My toes touch the front and i couldn't wear anything smaller. I have to ask lubos what show sizes are available and what my fin has exactly. After wearing the fin about 20 minutes my feet started to hurt. The footpocktes produce not hot spots on my feet but the very small size and the flexible material sequeze my feet gently but constantly and homogenus. I think the pocktes are realy great but in the end too small for the purpose I wanted an new fin: To have a fin which doesn't hurt.

Doing the first turns i realized that not only the blade is harder but also that its behaves totally different on turns compared to the glide. I managed to establish a technique for more or less smooth sideways turns as most freedivers do. Doing it 1:1 the same way doesn't work for me at all. I think I have to reprogram some the moves to my spinal marrow to get that right. This is where I realized a second diffrence: The Material is very splippery in the water. You cannot stand on the small sideboard of the pool without splipping away and so at the turn the fin just slips away when I push myself from the boarder for the next length.

My 400 to 800m Blade turned out to be hard. I'm used to my glide middle disctance which is for most of my fellow freedivers quite hard. Most of the other have soft blades on thier glides (yes, wer're a waterway club ) One coleague which was able to put the tropol on and swim with it said it was way to hard for him. I found it hard but i think i could get used to it. But it surely takes more accomodation to find out.

I think the glide phase was not that good as with the Glide (what a sentence..). I also think (but haven't measured it) that I dove a bit slower than with the glide, which could have caused the earlier. Also the angle of the tropol is a bit less. I'm able to stand up with the fin on by myself which i cannot do with the glide. But my glide has a strong bend in the footpockets (the one that starts to hurt after some time...) which could be the cause for that.

In the end I did 60m with two turns with both fins to take a look how ehausted i would be after it. The Tropol was the easier one....

Generaly I had the impression that the tropol would be the easier fin to swim.

Well that's my first vague impressions after one training.

Resume for now:

* I would probably have the footpockets one size bigger.
* I would probably have a softer blade.
* Just a bit more angle would be nice to have.

That's it so far. Let's see what tomorrows pool-session brings in

Have a lot of fun,

Michi

 

[jome]

Well I also ordered one. I was a bit hesitant because I just tried a friends custom 30 degree glide and it was really, really good. Haven't had such a "wow effect" in a long, long time. So it was up to either that or Tropol, but since no one else in Finland seemed willing to try the Tropol I decided to take one for the team and try it out.

Let's see what happens. My main concerns are exactly what Michi has listed Comfortable footpockets, "enough" angle (I think 30 may not be the optimum for me, but it felt much better than my current one), and a softer blade.

Let's see what happens...

(I did also ask for more angle but they told me it's not possible currently)

 

[cal]

Hi all

So, my second short training with the Tropol fin. First I did some laps with the glide, then switched to the Tropol fin.

The WW Glide was as usual (this for calibration ). The overall impression of the tropol was good again. The Fin indeed doesn't seem to glide as well as the WW Glide does. But despite the blade is harder it takes less effort to move the fin. I think I can adapt to the blade and this won't be a big issue. Again I had the impression that the Tropol is technically easier to swim. I cannot tel by now which one i would prefer for performance.

What I can tell is that the footpocktes are really squeezy and that I think I would want at least to try on one size bigger. Lubos sent me the sizes available:

39-40, 41-42, 43-44, 45-46

My normal shoe size is 41.5 and I have the 41-42 footpockets (European/Swiss Sizes). For a finswimmer the size may match well, for me as a "lazy" freediver it's a bit to small. (I don't wear socks in the footpockets)

I want to clear something from my first "action report": I wrote that its hard to stand at the border of the pool due to the slipperiness of the footpockets when wet. I meant the narrow boarder at the side of the pool in about 1.3m depth to stand on when your in. It was very straining to stand on that, prepare and breathe deep before you go off. I hat to concentrate and balance rather than relax and calm down. Perhaps a small patch of rubber on the bottom-rear side of the pockets could fix this. Standing at the border outside the pool (for instance to jump in) is no problem. I even made a jump from the 1m springboard with the fin on

Again Lubos was very kind and offered me to alter my blade. At the moment I guess I can adapt to the blade (of course I'd like to know how the next softer blade would feel..). The thing I probably won't be able to adapt to is the small footpockets.

Cool jome! You say you liked the 30 degree glide. My Glide has less than 30 degree and the Tropol has even lesser. What fin and blade do you usually dive with?

Have fun,

Michi

 

[Fondueset]

Just for the record - I wear a 44-45 - and I have the 45-46 footpockets. I took them again to the pool and did very hard sprints. There is just a little bit of movement in the pockets with very hard kicking. They are as comfortable, however, as any footpockets I have ever used - bi fins included. No chaffing, rubbing, hurting of any kind and, of course, my fin has no signs of wear.

I think the footpockets are sized for finswimming - very tight force transmission. For freediving perhaps it is best to order a size bigger. We can always use socks to tighten them up.

I am also thinking the glide may have to do with the blade angle - and with flexibility. I am quite flexible so it may be I have better glide mainly because the fin is less buoyant than my others, and because I can accomodate the angle.

This is a very good time for us to influence the development of their freediving fin. We should all put our ideas here and I or trux can send them to lubos. I have the thought that maybe something less than 30 degrees might be ideal - say 25-27?

 

[cal]

OK Fondueset, great to hear about your feet and footpocket size.

I suggest to agree on a type of measurement before we start to discus about angles Which one of these http://forums.deeperblue.com/monofins/83327-tropol-monofin-fondueset-review.html#post772696 do you relate to?

Cheers, Michi