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UK regs on boat traffice and buoys?
- Thread starterSpaniard
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Like I said I wrote to the coast guard and local MP, neither seemed interested. Just make sure you at least always have a float with you (I like do Daves idea's for float designs!).. I know a few people who insist on diving without a float - mad! laters Clive.
Much better!!Spaniard said:
I think the fuel tank should be considered as a head-shot in that case.
I know that for cars on the road they are not allowed to pass closer than a car width to you if you are on a bike (yes, I am a militant cyclist...) - and if they do and you just happen to have your bike keys in your hand and they slip down the side of the car then even with a stretched arm you are going to win in court as the car was closer than it legally should have been.... (I've been across too many car bonnets to care too much about cars so just chill now and ride defensively - ie lots of braking and assuming that the car driver will do something mad like overtake and then take a sharp left [happens everyday...])
So perhaps .. well lets say that the range of a speargun is 5m... if a craft is within 5m of you then they are too close and especially if you happen to see a large bass on the surface about, lets say 5m away and you just happen not to hear the craft... unfortunate as you did have a clear flag up to say you were diving/hunting ... :0)
(PS I in no way advocate violence - it would just be an unfortunate shot
)
So perhaps .. well lets say that the range of a speargun is 5m... if a craft is within 5m of you then they are too close and especially if you happen to see a large bass on the surface about, lets say 5m away and you just happen not to hear the craft... unfortunate as you did have a clear flag up to say you were diving/hunting ... :0)
(PS I in no way advocate violence - it would just be an unfortunate shot
)
Well I have to sympathise with that attitude Ed, wrong as it is but to be honest I would be tempted to put a spear through the hull of a boat that nearly mowed me down, below the waterline of course so they couldnt hang around to give me grief rofl Perhaps its the Irish in me But being tempted doesnt make it right either
But being tempted doesnt make it right either
Sometimes being wrong can be right ... oh so right ! (Make you feel better two until you realise that you have just lost a nice Devoto shaft so maybe I'll stick to the bass...).
Had a scary moment this weekend when a boat came barrelling towards me despite me waving my spear in the air and then jinxed around me and waved as if nothing had happened - bearing in mind I was in a very very quiet spot and had no float (there is a very small channel through there but I assumed that no boat owner would know it - i mean it is narrow with lots of rocks and the tidal range is huge here so there is no way you could know it at each state of tide - well this guy did - he was either a genius or insane - rocks about 2m or less beneath the surface.... I went down and hid in a cave with some large wrasse)
... oh so right ! (Make you feel better two until you realise that you have just lost a nice Devoto shaft so maybe I'll stick to the bass...).Had a scary moment this weekend when a boat came barrelling towards me despite me waving my spear in the air and then jinxed around me and waved as if nothing had happened - bearing in mind I was in a very very quiet spot and had no float (there is a very small channel through there but I assumed that no boat owner would know it - i mean it is narrow with lots of rocks and the tidal range is huge here so there is no way you could know it at each state of tide - well this guy did - he was either a genius or insane - rocks about 2m or less beneath the surface.... I went down and hid in a cave with some large wrasse
)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4698095.stm
No diver involved, but, out of control speedboat or just unfortunate collision?
No diver involved, but, out of control speedboat or just unfortunate collision?
How about jet ski seeking missiles, something small and inofensive....Trident perhaps? They can be automaticaly fired off :hmm when a jet ski comes within.. What do you recon 10 miles??.. Of your float. It might scare the fish though.
check this link from the BBC today re Jet skiers in Cornwall
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4706309.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4706309.stm
Well I got an answer from them in the end ::
-------------------------
Good afternoon,
Further to your fax of the 20th July I can advise as follows;
The speed limit in all the bays around the island is 6 knots. For the purpose of water skiing only it is possible to obtain a permit to exceed the limit in certain areas.
Regarding Diver Down Marker Bouys, the use of the orange/red flag with a white diagonal stripe from top edge of the hoist to bottom edge of the fly is an American institute that has been adopted by some divers in the UK as an inndicator of their position. There is not , as I understand it, a legal requirement for it to be displayed. It would seem to me to be prudent and good seamanship to avoid passing close to any form of marker bouy be it pot bobber, a dan type bouy with a marker flag on it, an inflatable sausage marker or just a boats fender as it is highly probable that it is marking something. Obviously the higher out of the water the marker is the easier and sooner it will be noticed. Whilst there is no hard and fast distance for avoiding these markers, once again good seamanship implies that a reasonable wide berth be given.
Whilst I note that you state that boat users are generally clued up ( a statement that I may, as a search & rescue co-ordinator, from time to time take variance with) you ask if jet skiers & windsurfers are required to be educated in such matters. Be advised that there is no regulation in force that requires a pleasure boater of any description to be educated at all in seamanship/boat handling/rule of the road etc.
Around the coasts of Guernsey Herm & Jethou there are, as I have already stated, speed limits in force for the bays and certain off shore areas such as the Humps north of Herm, consequently in those areas jet skis should not be operating. With regard to wid surfers they are restricted to the ares within the bays where they can operate and whilst this does not recognise divers it does protect to a degree the normal swimmers. In the event that you wish to dive in an area frequented by wind surfers then I would recommend that you enter and leave the from as close to the shore as possible.
With regard to a press release I will discuss the matter with the Harboumaster & proceed accordingly.
Best regards,
Deputy Harbourmaster
Harbour Authority, Public Services Department
-----------------
My original email was as follows ::
------------
Hi
I have a question about safety for water users.
As more people are starting to use the water at this time of year I would like some clarification about the legalities of water users.
The first point I'd like some clarification about is Grand Havre.
I saw a notice at Chouet that states all craft must maintain a speed of 6knots.- is this for the whole of Grand Havre or just for Chouet ?
The second point is concerning diver down marker bouys.
I understand that the orange/red and white flag is for use by divers/freedivers/spearfishermen and indicates that they are diving in the vicinity. (As opposed to a blue and white 'A-flag' that is for use on static craft being used by divers) What does this mean for craft users ? Are they obliged to avoid the area that the bouy is in ? If so to what extent ? 10m or 20m or how many metres ?
I understand that boat users are generally clued up about the meanings of sea markers/flags etc but is there any requirement for windsurfers and jetski users to become educated ?
My situation is that I freedive and spearfish in many locations around the island and am very careful when I see a boat or craft near me - I generally shout and make sure that they have seen me (I use a clearly marked float). However recently in Dorset a man was hit by a jetski and there have been increasing levels of near-misses over there.
I am slightly worried that there is a general lack of information about what a diver down marker bouy/flag means. Perhaps you could release a comment to the press to indicate what correct behaviour is and to let people know what these bouy are in a similar manner to the press releases that you release concerning boating in general at the start of the summer each year.
I look forward to hearing from you.
--------------------
-------------------------
Good afternoon,
Further to your fax of the 20th July I can advise as follows;
The speed limit in all the bays around the island is 6 knots. For the purpose of water skiing only it is possible to obtain a permit to exceed the limit in certain areas.
Regarding Diver Down Marker Bouys, the use of the orange/red flag with a white diagonal stripe from top edge of the hoist to bottom edge of the fly is an American institute that has been adopted by some divers in the UK as an inndicator of their position. There is not , as I understand it, a legal requirement for it to be displayed. It would seem to me to be prudent and good seamanship to avoid passing close to any form of marker bouy be it pot bobber, a dan type bouy with a marker flag on it, an inflatable sausage marker or just a boats fender as it is highly probable that it is marking something. Obviously the higher out of the water the marker is the easier and sooner it will be noticed. Whilst there is no hard and fast distance for avoiding these markers, once again good seamanship implies that a reasonable wide berth be given.
Whilst I note that you state that boat users are generally clued up ( a statement that I may, as a search & rescue co-ordinator, from time to time take variance with) you ask if jet skiers & windsurfers are required to be educated in such matters. Be advised that there is no regulation in force that requires a pleasure boater of any description to be educated at all in seamanship/boat handling/rule of the road etc.
Around the coasts of Guernsey Herm & Jethou there are, as I have already stated, speed limits in force for the bays and certain off shore areas such as the Humps north of Herm, consequently in those areas jet skis should not be operating. With regard to wid surfers they are restricted to the ares within the bays where they can operate and whilst this does not recognise divers it does protect to a degree the normal swimmers. In the event that you wish to dive in an area frequented by wind surfers then I would recommend that you enter and leave the from as close to the shore as possible.
With regard to a press release I will discuss the matter with the Harboumaster & proceed accordingly.
Best regards,
Deputy Harbourmaster
Harbour Authority, Public Services Department
-----------------
My original email was as follows ::
------------
Hi
I have a question about safety for water users.
As more people are starting to use the water at this time of year I would like some clarification about the legalities of water users.
The first point I'd like some clarification about is Grand Havre.
I saw a notice at Chouet that states all craft must maintain a speed of 6knots.- is this for the whole of Grand Havre or just for Chouet ?
The second point is concerning diver down marker bouys.
I understand that the orange/red and white flag is for use by divers/freedivers/spearfishermen and indicates that they are diving in the vicinity. (As opposed to a blue and white 'A-flag' that is for use on static craft being used by divers) What does this mean for craft users ? Are they obliged to avoid the area that the bouy is in ? If so to what extent ? 10m or 20m or how many metres ?
I understand that boat users are generally clued up about the meanings of sea markers/flags etc but is there any requirement for windsurfers and jetski users to become educated ?
My situation is that I freedive and spearfish in many locations around the island and am very careful when I see a boat or craft near me - I generally shout and make sure that they have seen me (I use a clearly marked float). However recently in Dorset a man was hit by a jetski and there have been increasing levels of near-misses over there.
I am slightly worried that there is a general lack of information about what a diver down marker bouy/flag means. Perhaps you could release a comment to the press to indicate what correct behaviour is and to let people know what these bouy are in a similar manner to the press releases that you release concerning boating in general at the start of the summer each year.
I look forward to hearing from you.
--------------------
No seriously,.... my worst fear is when I'm running short of air and surfacing, only to hear the monotonous drone of an engine ....somewhere nearby and can't actually see it. I do a quick 360 turn around me before surfacing, and looking above me, only that sometimes I still don't get a visual with the boat, then out of need for air, I would just have to risk it, and surface right next to my buoy. It's not the best option ....I know, but what am I supposed to do in a similar condition?
Apart for mining your fishing area, how visible are your floats / bouys ?
I've had lots of trouble clearly seeing lobster pots even with flags at 1~2m high out of the water in any sort of swell, and thats only at max 5~6 knots on a Yacht. There's no excuse in hitting a marker but how many have flags anything like the height of those on Danbouys for marking man-over-board ? At least spearos / divers aint laying drift nets from poorly marked bouys.
Is the BSA talking to the RYA (nominally reponsible for jetski's + windsurfers), RNLI, MCA and RLSS ?
I dont enjoy having to share difficult waters with jetskis / windsurfers who dont know signals,bouys or COLREGs.
Lammy
I've had lots of trouble clearly seeing lobster pots even with flags at 1~2m high out of the water in any sort of swell, and thats only at max 5~6 knots on a Yacht. There's no excuse in hitting a marker but how many have flags anything like the height of those on Danbouys for marking man-over-board ? At least spearos / divers aint laying drift nets from poorly marked bouys.
Is the BSA talking to the RYA (nominally reponsible for jetski's + windsurfers), RNLI, MCA and RLSS ?
I dont enjoy having to share difficult waters with jetskis / windsurfers who dont know signals,bouys or COLREGs.
Lammy
Hi Lammy
I think you have almost hit the problem.. Most Jet skiers I know have no idea what a Port hand can or safewater mark is.. A floating orange object such as a float will just bring them in as they want to see what it is in their water.
As I am doing my Tug masters ticket at the mo my simpathy with jet skiers and windsurfers that have no idea is wearing very thin and I think just like a bike or a car you should have to have a basic test on rules of the road and bouys/lights/sounds before you can use any water craft. An RYA/MCA water users ticket sounds like the way forward.
Still.. Not as bad as those yachtys how have never read past the power gives way to sail rule!! :ko
I think you have almost hit the problem.. Most Jet skiers I know have no idea what a Port hand can or safewater mark is.. A floating orange object such as a float will just bring them in as they want to see what it is in their water.
As I am doing my Tug masters ticket at the mo my simpathy with jet skiers and windsurfers that have no idea is wearing very thin and I think just like a bike or a car you should have to have a basic test on rules of the road and bouys/lights/sounds before you can use any water craft. An RYA/MCA water users ticket sounds like the way forward.
Still.. Not as bad as those yachtys how have never read past the power gives way to sail rule!! :ko