UK regs on boat traffice and buoys?

[samdive]

Bryn - this might be something the BFA could get involved in - suggest it to Emma perhaps

S

 

[Almostafish]

How do you mean Sam? Get the BFA to pettition the MCA for tighter regs, that sort of thing??

 

[samdive]

yeah or start by asking what they are and then maybe encourage some kind of awareness campaign next spring/summer

 

[Soul Deep]

Samdive, that is without a doubt the best suggestion so far.

If by some long shot we managed to get the law changed to hinder Jet Skis it could never be policed and consequentially would make sweet fa difference. On the other hand, if we could get a hard hitting poster style awareness program (e.g. photo of ripped apart skin diver leaving blood trail with jet ski zipping off into the sunset :blackeye) at ramp launches, shops and other places these people hang about they will at least become conscious of possibly killing someone when going close to buoys. This is a reasonably good deterrent to all those except the real hardcore ignorant which we are always going to get whatever is done.

As we all seem to generally agree, ignorance appears to be the main problem here, and this is a good solution to inform the ignorant. If Samdive’s suggestion is pushed it is at worst a move in the right direction

 

[Alison]

On the other hand, if we could get a hard hitting poster style awareness program (e.g. photo of ripped apart skin diver leaving blood trail with jet ski zipping off into the sunset :blackeye)

Are you volunteering to be the model for the photoshoot are you?? :hmm
Yes it is a good idea, expensive though

 

[samdive]

you/we could try working with these guys

http://www.bdsg.org/index.htm

if people out there think this is a real problem, then we should push for some action and now is about the right time to make something happen next season

Sam

 

[Lammy]

With the increasing number of beach lifeguards run by the RNLI, MCA and RLSS more posters and notices are going up and people are being tackled about dangerous / risky behaviour on beaches. Not sure how many nutters would read a warning about marker bouys though. The BDSG sounds like a good forum.

Bryn, If i have to avoid you boys in tugs I'll spill my gin on the opposite tack, anyway I'm down below getting more ice !

 

[Soul Deep]

Samdive , Yes of course I would be happy to model as long as there is a good makeup support cru and you were not suggesting some form of method acting :crutch

Not sure about the safety site. I have never heard of them as a diver so am slightly unsure of there real influence within the wider community.

I would love to know if the BFA would consider a specifically targeted safety campaign next spring/summer around major UK sports craft hotspots for UK freedivers/ skin divers/ spearos? Even if the BFA say they would just deal with the distribution complications and relationships, leaving others to raise money for materials it would be a step forwards. I've paid my money to the BFA so I hope they at least consider a members request.

 

[Almostafish]

Laff! .

 

[XP_Dude]

Up until about 3 years ago I was a jet skier for about 15 years and I can honestly say that it is all about education. When I first started I had no idea what different types of buoys were for, other than trying to spin around them as fast and as close as possible. After I was introduced to sailing about 8 years ago I had to learn what the buoys were for, the difference here being I was allowed to just jump on a ski and go, when I wanted to go sailing, I was taught by an instructor.

During all my years of jet skiing I can say that none of the people I ever met had any clue what buoys meant.

I suggest that it might be an idea to get on to http://www.jetskier.co.uk/forum/ and post some messages about this, people who frequent this forum are reasonable people, not all chavs, and pretty much most of the UK Jet Skiing community frequent it.

Lets at least try and educate our fellow water users for our own sake.

XP_Dude.
(Hence the XP monicker!!)

P.S. If that bl00dy bloke on that Waverunner in Lulworth Cove comes within 10 metres of me every again I swear I will do something that he will regret!!

 

[Alison]

Nice idea XP but I fear that the members of that forum will in general be the "better sort" of jet skier, those that actually care about other water users and to be fair its not just jet ski's those effin fishermen can be just as bad! We had one the other week motor right up to us and tell us to ????? off because he wanted to cast there! rofl he was quite shoked when he realised I was a woman and even more shoked when he realised I had a gun rofl needless to say he found a spot to fish just a little way along and no I didnt point it at him!
Anyway back to the point, having not visited the forum (and have no wish to) do you think they would listen to us? I find that when one group of users asks for tolerance of another, all hell breaks loose who is going to be brave enough to try?

 

[portinfer]

Alison I still think that you should make a nice 50cm wooden gun called...'the boat-angler'

 

[poacher]

I have a small personal flare launcher the flares are about 20mm diameter and 30mm long propelled by a .22calibre blank which is part of the lare theyre waterproof and go off with a bit of a bang the launcher is just a plastic nadle you screw plares onto it has a spring loaded firing pin you just pull it back and click it into a notch then push the button and bang off she goes flies about 40m then bursts into a bright light white ,green and red colours available. one of these accross the bow of a boat or jetski should give them the message

 

[poacher]

On a more serious note you could show your maritime authority this http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/pwc.html -to get a few ideas on rules for jetskis- named as PWCs by our beurocrats.
Also this
http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/docs/sbh2004-part3.pdf
for general boating info
Regards
Peter

 

[Mr. X]

No seriously,.... my worst fear is when I'm running short of air and surfacing, only to hear the monotonous drone of an engine ....somewhere nearby and can't actually see it. I do a quick 360 turn around me before surfacing, and looking above me, only that sometimes I still don't get a visual with the boat, then out of need for air, I would just have to risk it, and surface right next to my buoy. It's not the best option ....I know, but what am I supposed to do in a similar condition?

Had that happen to me recently -- quite scarey. I carefully surfaced & looked around but could not see the boat -- but it was very loud. Eventually looked up -- it was the rescue helicopter (from Portland I think) hovering overhead... having a look down! :duh

 

[Mr. X]

P.S. If that bl00dy bloke on that Waverunner in Lulworth Cove comes within 10 metres of me every again I swear I will do something that he will regret!!

Lulworth Cove is full of boats...and surprisingly, scuba divers. More worrying to me is the reef sheltered beach opposite the arch beach at Durdle Door (St. Oswald's Bay?):
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.c...zm=0&scale=5000&multimap.x=592&multimap.y=200
Earlier this year I saw a speedboat (water ski -type) come hammering in through a break in the reef. There were probably 4 or 5 sets of snorkellers active in the bay at the time (all w/o buoys), kids playing & paddling and a group of 4 or 5 kayaks (also paddling over and around the snorkellers!). Once in, the boat turned around and went straight out again :duh .

Later this Summer, I saw a medium size RIB with 2 guys onboard do a similar thing. It was less busy but the boat seemed even faster. One of the guys was wearing a wet suit -- so possibly a diver! :duh They too turned around and left immediately! :duh

 

[Mr. X]

Having snorkelled with and without a buoy, here are my personal observations:

W/o a buoy, boats just aren't aware that you are there and even when they are, they don't seem to care. Kayaks usually are aware but they come on over anyway. Kids dingies come over to see what you are up to.

With a large (11 litre), orange, flagged buoy, I was pleasantly surprised to find that boats and kayaks not only kept away but have even moved away :thankyou ***. Kids (sometimes with parents) in dingies still come over to see what you are up to! Not much of a danger. Sometimes they follow though (a firm but polite "I have a speargun, please don't follow" - has always been sufficient to turn them around).

Thankfully I have not yet encountered a jetski. 'Was surprised that no training is required for any leisure boaters, as a friend just took some yacht master RYA qualification -- seems like a sensible precaution. Maybe we need a flag campaign to aid recognition (it used to be fairly common to see A-flag diver stickers in cars), perhaps flyers/signs near beaches? [I would favour this approach over regulation. I suspect many of us are pretty sick of expensive, petty new regulations -- which would have the same problem: how do you let people know? ].

By the way, which flag are we supposed to fly now (no wonder boaters don't know -- seems like divers don't know either!)? UKDivers.com says the American-style red with white diagonal on floats & a rigid British-style blue/white (international A-flag) on boats! :duh Seems like it might be good idea to choose one and stick to it (I see some floats come with a socket & one of each so you can choose. "Red today, to go with my new wetsuit"? rofl ).

***That said, I have heard of even small RIBs and kayaks flying very large dive flags being approached by other boats. Curiosity, theft, ignorance and salvage are all possible. [One guy found some boatmen pulling his kayak onboard, before he scared them off!]

Suggest nobody spears a boat -- might loose your equipment. Powerhead? Knife hole? Probably best to leave the road rage at home. :ban

 

[miles]

Hiya

I know that if you have a Alpha flag up, other water users have to stay clear of you. This is LAW!!!! Simply try and find out EXACTLY how far a vessel is supposed to stay from a diver or boat displaying a Alpha flag.

When vessels disregard the law, simply note their boat registration number and report them to the relevant authorities.

Regards
miles

 

[portinfer]

Miles - see back a few pages - this is the reply I got from the Harbour Auth. (the guys that should know the law and enforce it over here)
Summarised again below...
:::

"The speed limit in all the bays around the island is 6 knots. "
[-- Not adhered to in many bays. Fermain the boats steam in until they are near the shore - despite swimmers and snorkellers quite far offshore]

"Regarding Diver Down Marker Bouys, the use of the orange/red flag with a white diagonal stripe from top edge of the hoist to bottom edge of the fly is an American institute that has been adopted by some divers in the UK as an inndicator of their position. There is not , as I understand it, a legal requirement for it to be displayed. "
(-- so what about the Blue Alpha flags ? No advice given to me by them !)

"Whilst there is no hard and fast distance for avoiding these markers, once again good seamanship implies that a reasonable wide berth be given."
(--what is a 'reasonable wide berth' ??? 1m / 10m / 100m ???)

"Be advised that there is no regulation in force that requires a pleasure boater of any description to be educated at all in seamanship/boat handling/rule of the road etc."
(-- great !)

So even they don't seem to offer me any advise nor really state that there are any specific rules...

Ed

 

[Mr. X]

...this is the reply I got from the Harbour Auth. ....

"Regarding Diver Down Marker Bouys, the use of the orange/red flag with a white diagonal stripe from top edge of the hoist to bottom edge of the fly is an American institute that has been adopted by some divers in the UK as an inndicator of their position. There is not , as I understand it, a legal requirement for it to be displayed. "
(-- so what about the Blue Alpha flags ? No advice given to me by them !)
..."
So even they don't seem to offer me any advise nor really state that there are any specific rules...

Ed

To be fair to the Harbour Master (who I think gave a good response), you asked about the red-flag & didn't really ask him specifically about the A-flag -- although you did summarized the UKDivers position well in your question (perhaps he felt that was close enough?):

...
"I understand that the orange/red and white flag is for use by divers/freedivers/spearfishermen and indicates that they are diving in the vicinity. (As opposed to a blue and white 'A-flag' that is for use on static craft being used by divers) What does this mean for craft users ? Are they obliged to avoid the area that the bouy is in ? If so to what extent ? 10m or 20m or how many metres ?"

What is a reasonable distance? I would think something of the order of 100ft+ or 50m+ & the further the better --- a spearo might commonly have a 30m float line (scuba divers quite possibly more). I guess we could all have different opinions on that though.