very deep dives without mouthfil?

[dannybuoy]

Saw this on facebook in a closed group called 'Crystal Clear Apnea' and thought it was interesting. Marcus Greatwood wrote the following:

"I developed the mouthfill in 2002 with Loic in Nice. We decided it was just a quick fix. I took 8 years to complete my new system that relies on relaxation and cartaligic flexibility. My book "Deep Freediving" details the theory. Everyone who I have taught is blown away by the ease of diving V.Deep.
)
Not to be used lightly... equalisation is not always the limiting factor!"

2 things i find a bit strange here: the origins of the mouthfil (i've always send prayers of thanks to Mr Fattah when mine worked), and it not being needed for very deep dives -below 100. Does anyone have any further information?

 

[watts]

8 years! :head

 

[pthread]

8 years! :head

What's wrong with that?

 

[trux]

The question is whether everyone needs 8 years to master the technique, and whether it is accessible to everyone or not. For example Martin Stepanek always dived without a noseclip (with a simple Sphera), and used BTV even at his 122m CWT WR, but there are many divers who will not be able to use BTV at all.

 

[pthread]

The question is whether everyone needs 8 years to master the technique, and whether it is accessible to everyone or not.

No, Marcus' comment refers to developing the training system it is part of (NoTanx) which took 8 years, not to mastering the technique itself.

 

[trux]

It is still unclear whether the technique so complex that it needs such a sophisticated training program, and what is the success rate of those who passed the training program. I guess Marcus does not want to disclose the technique itself, at least not untill his book is out. But I wonder whether the technique is complex, or just the learning process (or both). I suppose it is not just some simple trick, and not easy to learn, otherwise it would not make much sense that it took 8 years to work on it. But perhaps I am wrong. Well, the book is inexpensive (I see it for 6,60€ for example here), so it may be worth of picking one up, but I think I'll wait till I hear some feedback from unbiased freedivers.

 

[pthread]

It is still unclear whether the technique so complex that it needs such a sophisticated training program, and what is the success rate of those who passed the training program. I guess Marcus does not want to disclose the technique itself, at least not untill his book is out. But I wonder whether the technique is complex, or just the learning process (or both). I suppose it is not just some simple trick, and not easy to learn, otherwise it would not make much sense that it took 8 years to work on it. But perhaps I am wrong. Well, the book is inexpensive (I see it for 6,60€ for example here), so it may be worth of picking one up, but I think I'll wait till I hear some feedback from unbiased freedivers.

No it doesn't, I think I miss-worded it a bit really, my apologies if it came out confusing. The training system is around relaxation + enjoyment, the technique can be part of it if the student is interested in deep diving. (Not everyone is....)

 

[efattah]

Well, he definitely didn't develop the mouthfill, but perhaps he has developed a new technique.

I wrote about the history of the mouthfill elsewhere in this forum, but the single-mouthfill technique was an idea I had in 1999. I first tested it successfully in the ocean in Jan/Feb 2000 and published the equalizing document which described it in late 2000.

I would comment that since then I have developed more equalizing techniques including a new one that uses less energy, that I am very excited about, but I haven't published these yet.

However I am curious as to what technique Mr. Greatwood has developed.

 

[watts]

8 years just seemed to be a while to learn an eq technique.Great dedication. Love to hear what these "secret" techniques are.

 

[Mullins]

Pinch & blow?

 

[pthread]

Pinch & blow?

Actually this technique is aiming at hands-free.... and we teach it to beginners using a balloon and a straw. No rocket science involved.

Eric: I don't want to get into an argument with you on behalf of someone else about publishing dates or "who had the idea first", but I was told Loic Leferme & Marcus developed it and that you published it. There's a simple 2 page document on how to use Marcus' method, opposed to that, I personally found what you were describing over-complicated in your document (no offense!).

 

[pthread]

8 years just seemed to be a while to learn an eq technique.Great dedication. Love to hear what these "secret" techniques are.

As I said, this refers to formalizing the training system, not mastering the technique

 

[watts]

Cool. I look forward to the book.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[buddha]

Book ordered! I'll keep you updated as long as my life wouldn't be in danger discovering any "secret" to the humanity
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[efattah]

"who had the idea first", but I was told Loic Leferme & Marcus developed it and that you published it.

What a load of BS !

Marcus says he developed it in 2002. Just ask Herbert Nitsch and he will tell you how I explained my technique to him at length in France in 2000. Ask Kirk Krack who has been giving my equalizing document to his students since early 2001. Ask Herbert who used my technique to set the world record at 86m in 2001 ! Anyone who thinks this technique started in 2002 is living in a different world. Even the equalizing document itself, translated into more than 15 languages, contains a 'Copyright 2001' inside the document itself.

In fact, when I published the document in early 2001, ALL of the freedivers in the CIPA Club Nice France (a club which Marcus claims to have started, including Loic Leferme, Claude Chapuis, Olivier Heuleu etc.) all LAUGHED at the document and said that I had no right to claim to know anything about equalizing since (and I quote), "he can't dive!" After all, I only came 5th at the 2000 world cup with a dive to 63m (and Pradon dove 67m, taking 1st), so in their mind I could not dive.

After I broke the world record less than a year later, they shut up about that.

So Marcus' own club, CIPA, ridiculed the document when it was first published, and now he claims to have invented the technique. This follows the traditional pattern of new information: first it is ridiculed, then it is violently opposed, then it is accepted as obvious.

Sorry to be so blunt, but when someone makes such a blatant lie I cannot remain quiet. In fact, it makes me regret giving any information away for free. Perhaps Marcus can share with you the three equalizing techniques that I have recently developed, and not published. After all, he will no doubt claim to have invented them first anyway.

A search on apnea.cz shows Marcus has done 4:03 in static, 85m in dynamic, and 57m in constant weight. If in fact he has developed any equalizing techniques, he certainly has not tested them to any kind of realistic depth.

 

[pthread]

What a load of BS !

Marcus says he developed it in 2002. Just ask Herbert Nitsch and he will tell you how I explained my technique to him at length in France in 2000. Ask Kirk Krack who has been giving my equalizing document to his students since early 2001. Ask Herbert who used my technique to set the world record at 86m in 2001 ! Anyone who thinks this technique started in 2002 is living in a different world. Even the equalizing document itself, translated into more than 15 languages, contains a 'Copyright 2001' inside the document itself.

Easy, easy. In an earlier post you said it was 2000. But anyway.

In fact, when I published the document in early 2001, ALL of the freedivers in the CIPA Club Nice France (a club which Marcus claims to have started, including Loic Leferme, Claude Chapuis, Olivier Heuleu etc.) all LAUGHED at the document and said that I had no right to claim to know anything about equalizing since (and I quote), "he can't dive!" After all, I only came 5th at the 2000 world cup with a dive to 63m (and Pradon dove 67m, taking 1st), so in their mind I could not dive.

Can't comment on that.

After I broke the world record less than a year later, they shut up about that.

So Marcus' own club, CIPA, ridiculed the document when it was first published, and now he claims to have invented the technique. This follows the traditional pattern of new information: first it is ridiculed, then it is violently opposed, then it is accepted as obvious.

See above.

Sorry to be so blunt, but when someone makes such a blatant lie I cannot remain quiet. In fact, it makes me regret giving any information away for free.

Perhaps Marcus can share with you the three equalizing techniques that I have recently developed, and not published. After all, he will no doubt claim to have invented them first anyway.

Now you're being a bit childish (sorry).

A search on apnea.cz shows Marcus has done 4:03 in static, 85m in dynamic, and 57m in constant weight. If in fact he has developed any equalizing techniques, he certainly has not tested them to any kind of realistic depth.

I wasn't aware that this is a pissing contest. He's a trainer not a competing athlete. I can assure you that there are divers who have done 100m and past that with his technique.

 

[efattah]

I can assure you that there are divers who have done 100m and past that with this technique.

With what technique?

 

[pthread]

With what technique?

The one he's talking about in the original post (not mouthfill) which is also described in the book he published....

 

[trux]

Pthread, I do not know Marcus personally, but have communicated with him by email earlier, and trust that he can prove his words about the new method. However, I understand the feelings of Eric, and I do not think he deserves the disrespect you and Marcus show for him. It is undeniable Eric published his equalizing manual before 2002 (you can find references to it here on DB, and on the web). Yes, it is a bit of pissing contest, but still Eric is one of the biggest innovators in the history of freediving - his numerous inventions, ideas, experimenting, and especially his open heart - sharing his knowledge and experience with everyone in the community is unheard of. I do not think that anyone could deny that there is no other top freediver who gave as much to the community as Eric. There are other top freedivers who are relatively open, but many prefer keeping their training methods and ideas secret.

So, pthread, please try keeping this discussion civil, without personal attacks, and try showing a bit more respect for one of the greatest freedivers the community ever had.

 

[Alina]

Please try keeping this discussion civil, without personal attacks, and try showing a bit more respect for one of the greatest freedivers the community ever had.

Agree 100% with Ivo! Thanks for bringing it to some order. :ycard
All we "need" here is a political argument :martial
Let's just dive. Safe. :girlie