Very Intense contractions in DNY

[mattbigblue]

Dave and Chris, thank You for answers

I'm mainly focused on DNF and DYN, and lately I figured out, that while tidal breathing, no matter how much I push on training, if I start with normal heart rate (no stress) I'm not able to get myself blackout, I always finish crystal clear. During competitions, when my heart rate for 2 hours before OT is 100-110/min I usually get some sort of shakyness or samba on a shorter distances. I start thinking, maybe I'm doing something wrong with my breath up.:head

 

[trux]

I do not think it is really the heart rate, Matt. I think it is rather the stress-induced hyperventilation. Once you are under the influence of stress hormones, subconsciously and automatically you start hyperventilating. It may be so slight that you do not notice it at all even if you try watching it, but since the pre-competition stress usually takes several hours, it is long enough to remove big amount of CO2 from the blood, which again makes you more likely to black out prematurely.

 

[mattbigblue]

Could be, I was thinking about it, it's a good point.

but...one thing doesn't match here, let's say I'm a little bit hyperventilated due to factors You've mentioned. Why I start noticing contractions and lactic acid at the same point as on trainigs (without comp. stress) ?? sometimes even earlier...

 

[trux]

Probably because the faster DR (also due to the stress). But that's rahter positive (unless you are too disturbed psychologically by it)

 

[Kars]

I currently behold the following mechanical model:

If you're more stressed, mentally and physically, you will consume more O2.
On the other side, if you manage to keep your mental stress low (er) you can experience a benefit. You see due the stress increased vasoconstriction, bradicardi etc will help to reduce the amount of O2 muscles use. The bloodflow between muscle and bloodstream is reduced, leaving more O2 available to brain, heart and lungs. In other words muscles go quicker into anaerobic mode.
When you manage to stay mentally calm, then the benefit appears.

For myself it's a bit tricky to have this 'split personality' body-mind state, so I prefer to have a relaxed mind and body at the start. But when the first 50m have passed, and the body is about to transcend into anaerobic mode, I stimulate this by 'stepping on the gas', in other words swim fast. Now the trick is to be mentally quiet while swimming fast and experiencing the bodies stress reactions.

 

[mattbigblue]

to not go completely out of topic:
@Argyris

From my experience, the slower You swim, the less severe contractions are. I think You should work on Your CO2 tolerance. It helped me a lot in dynamics.

Probably because the faster DR (also due to the stress). But that's rahter positive (unless you are too disturbed psychologically by it)

Oh yeah, stupid me, I didn't connect two facts. My CO2 levels are lower than on trainings, but contractions start at similiar distance due to stronger DR, after all I don't have enough CO2 to protect me from strong hypoxia.

Do You have any clues how to handle with it??

For sure I will skip one deeper breath before final one, and maybe I will try some short statics (5sec?) before and after every tidal breath.

@ Kars
I bet if we could choose, we would all start with relaxed mind and body

Matt

 

[trux]

Matt, I am not sure whether under-breathing in the last phase is wise. It may deprive you of some precious oxygen saturation, and if you were stressed for a longer time, you may not manage to fill in the missing CO2 anyway. But if you want, you can try experimenting with it, of course.

I do not have any magic receipt, but what I noticed at the competitions I did (and they were no as numerous as yours), is that it worked perfectly, when I was well mentally prepared. When I omitted the mental preparation in the days or weeks prior the competition, I've been also more negatively stressed and finished either with an average performance, or (at the last competition) with a BO too. By mental preparation I mean especially careful visualizing of the entire competition in advance. Playing it in the head again and again, starting by visualizing waking up in the morning, taking the car and driving to the place of the competition, meeting friends, speaking, preparing, imagining the noise and disturbances, imagining the stress and trying to cope with it by relaxing, and then visualizing and perfectioning the performance again and again up to the final feel of victory and satisfaction. At first it is a mess, but as you play it in your head again and again, it gets better and better, and then when you come to the pool, you handle it better in the reality too.

 

[Argyris]

mattbigblue:

I do work on my CO2 tolerance. At this period i do 55 meters DYN starting with 1min brake(breathing normally), decreasing by 15sec.
ie 55meters,1min brake,55meters, 45sec,55meters,30sec,55meters,15sec,55meters.

I do this 3 times

 

[mattbigblue]

I think the best exercise is to do 10x constant time of static apnea with 1 breath between.

Let say 10x 90sec (You adjust time for Yourself) of apnea with 1 breath between, this way You can't blow out too much CO2.

If You really want to train it while doing dynamics, You can do 8-10x 25m with 1 breath between, You will have enough oxygen to do it, but You will notice strong contractions.

another good exercise is:
16x50m of dynamic apnea in the shortest time possible. I'm sure if You do it for 2 weeks, each time trying to improve Your time, you will make a new PB

 

[Argyris]

Im not sure that i understood the last exercise matt

16x50m of dynamic apnea at full speed??
how much resting time??

 

[mattbigblue]

16x50m

It's a common discipline. The basic rule is to accomplished distance (800m) in the shortest time possible. The way You do it, it's up to You.

You swim 50m, You rest as much as You need, then You swim another 50m, You rest as much as You need...... When You repeat 16 times You are done. Now You check Your time. Next session You try to improve time by decreasing rest times between each 50m. Rest time can be different for each lap. Usually people are not swimming fast but taking short recovery time, and it's all about CO2 tolerance.

Matt

 

[trux]

As low as you can - the purpose is the shortest possible total time. In fact it is a competition discipline. Until now only in France and in Germany, but recently the CMAS extended their 2 official freediving competition disciplines (DYN and Jump Blue) to 11 (STA, DYN, DNF, CWT, CNF, VWT, VWT no Fins, FIM, Jump Blue, Skandalopetra, and Speed Apnea which will be likely this 16x50 discipline). Current world record is 11'15" by Mikael Asp from 2006. More results here: APNEA.cz - Ranking

PS: ah, I see Matt was faster to answer

 

[Argyris]

Thanks a lot for the replies.
Iwill try and tell you the results.

 

[KatFish]

Hi Argyris

I think that using a noseclip instead of a mask will sort out the release of air and allow you to relax a lot more. I think you have a lot left in you and the video Chris posted (while I hate to say it) is exactly what you need.

I feel that you are giving up right at the time when you dive response is really kicking in and if you allow yourself to continue even a little further, you'll finally get to feel the really wonderful and addictive part of freediving. For me contractions are normally under way by about 35m and by about 90m I'm relaxed and loving it. Remember to be patient with yourself through the dive. Just chill out through the contractions and see what comes later. Be a little determined to push on through.

I wouldn't recommend changing your breathing prior to starting your dive. As Matt & Trux say, once you get to competition it is so easy to over breathe, so if you've practised in training with just relaxing and focusing on finding your own space instead of on your breathing, you are more likely to find a good balance on competition day. Sometimes it just comes down to giving yourself another couple of minutes of sitting/leaning on the side with your eyes shut before your dive, to really let go of everything else and get "in the zone" - for me a big self-focussed nothingness, very close to sleep.

Good luck!

 

[Mullins]

HTFU

HTFU

HTFU

Seeing a pattern here from the Kiwis? We're a supportive lot eh...

 

[chrismar]

In fairness, that was my motto in the last two comps.

It does make me wonder why people keep coming back to the club though...

 

[Mullins]

I may have been guilty of referring to Chopper in the course I ran over the weekend. I do use it on myself too though, works a treat. Sometimes the namby pamby "it's gotta feel good" stuff just doesn't cut it.

 

[chrismar]

Do you think we should ask him to be the NZ Freediving mascot? We all seem to be fans of his philosophy.

 

[aris ioannidis]

sorry, HTFU?

 

[chrismar]

Errr... Harder The F*** Up. It's a bit of an Australasian thing. See earlier video