What kind of mental concentration? | DeeperBlue.com Forums
  Guest viewing is limited
  • Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

What kind of mental concentration?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Skywalker

New Member
Aug 12, 2004
70
3
0
40
I for myself have just started to take a serious look into freediving a few weeks and a few training sessions ago. So what kind of mind set or concentration do you use during the static breathhold?

I for myself use to try to relax at the breath up (which is something I still have to improve bc I hardly can clear my mind at all)
During the breathold I usualy let my mind race through a bunch of thoughts and memorys I for example recall from the last day or week. Usualy I prefer nice memories. I try to immediatly change to another memory when I have the feeling that the first doesn't get my mind off the breathhold issue.

With that tactic I am at the moment at 3:30 I don't feel like I can not increase with the same tactic but I wonder what kind of tactic you use?

Do most of you try to clear their mind and think of nothing while holding their breath or do you also try to shift your concentration away of the fact that you are holdig your breath?

Thx

Robert
 

Donna

Supporter
Supporter
Oct 23, 2003
731
190
0
52
I sing to myself. But its always the same song and its only ever the same few lines over and over again. Its bizarre - I may not have heard the song for ages and I certainly don't think about it whilst doing my breathe up, but as soon as I put my face in the water, the song pops into my mind and off I go....

I'd like to have music in the water as I am sure this would help increase my static times...

Donna :)
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
159
0
38
i relax and imagine myself gliding in the blue sea or flying in the air, i concentrate heart beat. I don't count them since this reminds me time...i keep my thoughts away from any timing issue...
 

Skywalker

New Member
Aug 12, 2004
70
3
0
40
Originally posted by Murat
...i keep my thoughts away from any timing issue...

Thats what I try as well. I would also like to reduce my heartbeat more then I do now. I've read about the fact that exhaling slow decreases your heartbeat.

Robert
 

Domas

New Member
Sep 10, 2004
1
0
0
36
I remember my first static breathhold, after 30min of trainning I reached 3.45, To concentrate I was listening "Vangelis - Conquer the paradise". it was amazing ;)
 
Last edited:

zawi

New Member
Sep 23, 2004
7
1
0
Hi, several tricks:

1. The last 10 breathes are essential to achieve good static times. I made many, many trials and found my personal optimized breathing scheme, which I now use routinely for all my dives.

2. You imagine dark room with relaxing music (but not concentrating on music!)

3. After 4 min you will feel very uncomfortable. Then play with memories (this is the most difficult part)

4. You can fight for another 2 min if you sit up and slightly move your body and/or pressing some muscles and/or fixing some objects with your eyes.

5. Before you start breathing you look at your watch. This helps you to struggle for some extra seconds.

6. Finally you catch another 20 sec by the simple thought:
"Now I'm gonna die"
Because you will be curious how it is to die.

I started last year with dry statics at a 4:00 level. Now I reached 6:30.

Another tip:
Do never give up!!!!! You must learn to fight even if you feel in bad condition!!!
Can you give up a dive when you are alone in 30 m deep cold water?

I really hate dry statics but I need them to get self-confident with deeper dives.

Good luck, zawi
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeepThought

Pyrowolf

Beached
Aug 19, 2004
15
0
0
33
6:30 is very good. At the moment I can only managed 3:10. Have ever tried to just keep relaxing when you reach 4 minutes because fighting the last 2 minutes isn't gonna helpyou.
 

Skywalker

New Member
Aug 12, 2004
70
3
0
40
I am at about 3:30 and still have huge troubles keeping relaxed. I have problems thinking of the same or singing the same to me. If I use something repeatedly in my mind I heavily tend to link the intervals to time which obviously doesn't help.

I for myself think at the moment that I miss a great deal of general calmnig down. But I'll defenitly try some of the proposed tactics :]

Yours

Sky
 

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
1,289
200
153
44
Keeping it simple

Hi, this is an interesting topic and I think there is no silver bullet. Everyone must find their own method of relaxing.

I find my mind starting to drift very easily, starting to think about how long am I going to hold it this time, how long has it been etc. What will I eat today...Nonsense. I have found out that thinking anything that can be measured in time is harmful. This includes thinking of songs or counting heartbeat or whatever, it just makes me consious about the fact that there's still a long long struggle a head and I start to give up.

So I developed this really simple and silly mind game to keep me focused. I imagine this grid (image attached) in my head, right in front of my eyes (eyes closed). Once I do this, it will start to move about. I try to keep it in the center, but I'm not able to for more than a few seconds until it starts to drift left or right. This is all I do for the "easy part" of the hold (4 or so minutes). The more "inpure" thoughts I get, the more I focus on the grid.

After the first contraction begins the struggle phase. I usually count to a predefined number of contractions, say 30, but not looking at my watch and trying to mellow the contractions as much as I can. This keeps me focused for that bit. I don't increase the time by doing more contractions but by focusing on lengthening the interval between them.

After that I just let go and let them come on an switch to counting in powers of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16...). Once I'm unable to crunch the numbers anymore, I'll know I'm getting close to blackout and stop.

This gives me 3 stages where I can improve:
-delaying the first contraction
-lengthening the interval between contractions
-Counting up to a higher power of 2 (I'll get in trouble after 524288. Up to this point I don't as much count but recite them from memory)

I know these are silly methods and propably make little or no sense to anyone else but me. But just as an example of what kinds of things you might develop to help your concentration.

Zawi: that thinking about dying part sounds a bit...morbid. But whatever works ;)
 

Attachments

  • grid.gif
    grid.gif
    1.6 KB · Views: 255
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DeepThought

zawi

New Member
Sep 23, 2004
7
1
0
After 3 min the relaxing part is (for me) definitely over. Then I arrive at some twilight zone which I try to extend as long as possible using memories of my youth.

A good way how to train to manage these very uncomforable minute(s) after is during daily breathing exercises (one deep breath and then playing with chest muscles as long as possible).
 

AltSaint

Pipe and Flippers
Dec 29, 2002
380
102
133
60
I am not a fan of using intellectual reasoning / calculations - the brain uses O2 to do this. I have recently been involved in experiments that involve a blood oxygen analyser being attached to me during controlled hypoxia. In one period, where I was trying to solve a mental problem, my blood sats plummeted. Of course, this could be something exclusive to my physiology, not in everyone.

For me, I find that I need to divide my brain patterns into two phases, that co-incide with the relaxation / struggle phases of apnea. The first is passive thought, which is much easier than trying to shut down completely. Feeling relaxation in the muscles, listening ( without interpreting ) surrounding sounds, and seeing colours and shapes with eyes shut. Also allowing image-based thoughts in and out of the mind ( try to steer positive ones in ).

The second phase is about focusing - imagining the oxygen molecules circulating around your lungs and attaching to your heamoglobin, gradually opening the eyes and seeing what is in front of you, and monitoring all your senses for anything that warns you that your hypoxia is going too far ( this varies in individuals, but might be ringing ears, feeling of warmth etc. )

I am a firm believer that the way your brain is working has a significant effect on your apnea duration.

Mark
 
  • Like
Reactions: immerlustig

jome

Well-Known Member
Jul 5, 2004
1,289
200
153
44
Mark, I think you're quite right.

I should clarify. I don't use the "powers of 2" thing as an intellectual activity, it's more just reciting from memory. Just like counting 1,2,3...But I use it because not being linear I can't keep track of time so easily. If I'd count 1,2,3...At 10 I'd be thinking "***** that's only 10 seconds and I feel horrible already". With 2,4,8...I'll have no idea how long it took me to reach that number, but it gives me something to hold on.

I only use it for the very last part, where the pain is almost too much. At that point I'd say it makes very little difference what I'm thinking. It's just fighting...

As for the other things I do, they're quite simple and even visual, like you suggest. The grid thing is exactly trying to eliminate the "complex thinking" problem. I try to keep something extremely simple in my mind for that early phase where I'm still able to do that to save as much oxygen as I can.
 

Skywalker

New Member
Aug 12, 2004
70
3
0
40
That is interesting the "powers of 2" thing is new to me but I guess it wouldn't work for me due the reason that I relate any interval (no matter how big) to time. So I wouldn't differ counting: 1,2,3,.. or 2,4,8,...

The Cross Image sounds nice I'll try that by time.

Yours

Sky
 

naiad

Apnea Carp
Supporter
Oct 11, 2003
2,897
449
138
40
Originally posted by AltSaint
I am not a fan of using intellectual reasoning / calculations - the brain uses O2 to do this. I have recently been involved in experiments that involve a blood oxygen analyser being attached to me during controlled hypoxia. In one period, where I was trying to solve a mental problem, my blood sats plummeted. Of course, this could be something exclusive to my physiology, not in everyone.

I am a firm believer that the way your brain is working has a significant effect on your apnea duration.

Mark
Maybe being able to think about nothing is an advantage! ;) Doing apnea in a boring place could solve two problems at once - finding something to do and not being distracted by thinking about anything. Next time I have to attend a meeting.....
 

immerlustig

BlueSkunk
Aug 17, 2002
597
90
118
52
what i found most helpful especially at the end of the static (when things get nasty) is to keep my eyes open and focus on something.

and monitoring all your senses for anything that warns you that your hypoxia is going too far

i consciously try to disconnect the unpleasent contractions from my mental state. contractions keep me conscious and they are purely physical, so until i get tunnelvision and heavy tingling my brain is still 100% on. doing this generally gets me to take a lot more contractions. even on bad days.

on visualisations, i read somewhere that pleasant memories which are visualised in great detail are causing lower o2 consumption of the brain.

cheers

roland
 

Skywalker

New Member
Aug 12, 2004
70
3
0
40
Originally posted by immerlustig

on visualisations, i read somewhere that pleasant memories which are visualised in great detail are causing lower o2 consumption of the brain.

cheers

roland

That is what I try :] worked quite fine I could push my pb yesterday and finaly I ended up having "dreamin of a white christmas" in my head :D

Yours

Sky
 

Veronika

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2003
215
25
118
Hi,

I just found this topic so please excuse me for posting comments on older messages.

@ Zawi: Could you please explain #1 a little bit closer ? (If it's too much OT and it's ok for you, a PM would be nice - or another thread - or whatever).
BTW your statement about gaining +20sec by thinking about dying is almost as nice as an explanation by E. Ritter who said that ascending freedivers attract sharks because the movement patterns of their muscles would resemble dying fish :D ...

Well, back to the roots :) .
My latest acquirement is autogenic training, starting at about 1:00 or 1:30, just when I feel like it. Works quite well and getting through with one arm or leg keeps me busy for at least 30secs, makes 2 minutes altogether :eek: plus pretty good relaxation after that. Which gets me to a question:
From time to time people talk about getting "into the zone". I had a few experiences that felt like they could perhaps be associated with that term, but I'm not sure.
So, what is "the zone" / how is "the zone" like, how does it feel ? How would you guys describe it ?

Thankx,

Veronika
 
Last edited:

Skywalker

New Member
Aug 12, 2004
70
3
0
40
Hello Veronika

You are more then welcome in here and I would appreciate any detailed explanation to your questions in public so that we all can participate.

Not that I couldn't ask you in person but why not share the conversation with the others: Do you use the autogenic training patterns from the "freediver manual"? Or some kind of different pattern?

The total lack of such a zone feeling signals to me that I am far from relaxing well enough :[

Yours

Sky
 

DeepThought

Freediving Sloth
Sep 8, 2002
2,334
410
173
42
What's autogenic training?

I don't think I have a static "zone" (AKA "third lung").
Have one for diving.
It happens on those days when everything works just right, and you're totally blissed.
I don't think about air in those cases, it's like some inner diving computer took over my body and makes all the diving decisions, when to go down, when to go up, how long to stay - which is why I bought a real computer to beep me so I won't overstay.
Meanwhile my consciousness (which is somewhat reduced) just takes the ride and enjoys it.
 

Veronika

Well-Known Member
Nov 13, 2003
215
25
118
Sky,

what I know about autogenic training is just everyday knowledge (since it is something potentially useful it's not tought at university ;) ) . I did not read the corresponding chapter of the freediving manual either.
What I simply do is concentrating on one extremity and think to myself "My [e.g.] left leg is warm and heavy". By concentrating on a part of the body you normally use without thinking of it, you will make yourself aware of the bodily sensations that are actually existent. It's just like you normally just don't feel your left big toe, unless you think of it voluntarily :) .
It's said that even though it is a very simple technique it takes long practise to get full benefit from it. I personally feel that even though I just started with it it helps relaxing and it certainly keeps my mind busy so it fulfills its purpose. The next weeks / months will show if it stays effective for me or if it sort of wears off.

Regarding my question about the zone, "a few" meant about 5 times or so *g*...

Veronika
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2021 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT