Who in the heck in here used to quote Rumi in his posts? | DeeperBlue.com Forums
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Who in the heck in here used to quote Rumi in his posts?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

CEngelbrecht

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2002
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Who in the heck in here used to quote Rumi in posts?

Maybe off-topic and the wrong forum etc., but someone in here used to have a quote on the buttom of his/her posts with something like:

"We come spinning out of nothingness, scattering stars like dust."
Rumi, 13th century Persian poet.

Now I can't find that user again, so I reckon he/she has changed signature. For various reasons, I sort of need to find that particular quote in its original form in middle age Farsi (!). It's for a paper. So, if the person in question is still hanging around, I'd really like a PM on the topic and ask a few questions like which work the quote is from, possibly which chapter, etc.


Thanks in advance,
Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 
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Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
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That was my Sufi brother Adrian ;)
Is the paper specifically about Rumi, or Persian Poets, or just Sufi Poets.... maybe I could throw some Hafiz poems at you :)
I'd be really interested in reading your paper when it's done Chris.
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 

roy_nexus_6

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2003
368
50
118
I have seen this signature a few times as well. Love it.
Poetry meets cosmology and quantum mechanics.
 

aguafina

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2004
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back in the day I quoted alot of Tequilai as well as Beeri. They're like Rumi.
Sorri. :hungover :hungover :friday
 

mishu1984

Halla Waaaaallllaaa
Aug 15, 2002
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if you like Rumi, you should also check out another farsi poet, Omar Khayam.
 

CEngelbrecht

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2002
618
97
118
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Well...

It's not as much a paper as it's a screenplay I'm trying to sell to studios around here. It's scifi related, and I have an astronaut quote Rumi ... in original Persian! (I haven't been able to fit freediving into it, sadly...)
I know a few Persian people who can help me with reading and proper context, but so far I have no idea which work the quote derives from, so I can seek out a Persian edition of it.

I suppose I could relay my work here, but it's like 50+ pages at present, so...

Chris Engelbrecht, Copenhagen
 

mishu1984

Halla Waaaaallllaaa
Aug 15, 2002
1,164
193
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well its good that you have people to translate. my dads family is originaly farsi and although he speaks persian fluently im awkwardly limited to the following five words:
chitori: how are you?
salamat bashi: i dunno what it means but i know it always follows chitori :duh
khobi: no idea but it follows salamat bashi
pedarzag: your dad is a dog
gooz: fart
:D

im sure adrian or erik can explain what they mean
 

Adrian

Deeper Blue Beachcomber
Supporter
Nov 23, 2002
2,691
533
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Hey Chris,
Sorry to not have seen your post earlier, I've been visiting via the "new posts" only lately and this didn't pop up until now.

Sharp eye Michael!

I actually don't remember where I got the post from but I do have some books here and I'll try and locate it for you. I do have a sneaking suspicion though I may have lifted it off the net. I still have contacts in Iran and could try to have them send you an audio file if you want, at least in modern Farsi. I don't think many modern Iranians know how to speak in archaic Farsi, but maybe your hero is also a scholar? :D

Adrian
 

aguafina

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2004
19
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Mishu1984

thanks for the farsi lesson. my wife is a French-Syrian beauty and I can hardly wait to to ask her if she would enjoy a beer gooz while we wait for supper. I'll be diving alone for awhile but it'll be worth it...and I always thought old Omar was a canvas engineer. :duh

agua fina
 

aguafina

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2004
19
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Mishu,

I thought I might get a response out of you regarding Omar. I'm sure you aren't suprised when I confess my ignorance regarding Farsi poets, philosiphors, existentialists, writers, etc. both past and present. I do, however, love the people and the food. I have spearfished all over North, Central & South America, Carribeann, Bahamas, but never in the Mediterranean area. What's it all about over there?

Agua Fina

p.s. if I ever get over there ya think you set me up with a well groomed camel with green eyes? I hear they're spitters. :D
 

mjacobs

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2003
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p.s. if I ever get over there ya think you set me up with a well groomed camel with green eyes? I hear they're spitters. :D[/QUOTE]

Ah, I've heard of that camel..."The ruminant of O.M.E.R. I am," sayeth the camel! :girlie
Haiku anyone?
:D
Mark
 
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mishu1984

Halla Waaaaallllaaa
Aug 15, 2002
1,164
193
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aguafina said:
Mishu,

I thought I might get a response out of you regarding Omar. I'm sure you aren't suprised when I confess my ignorance regarding Farsi poets, philosiphors, existentialists, writers, etc. both past and present. I do, however, love the people and the food. I have spearfished all over North, Central & South America, Carribeann, Bahamas, but never in the Mediterranean area. What's it all about over there?

Agua Fina

p.s. if I ever get over there ya think you set me up with a well groomed camel with green eyes? I hear they're spitters. :D


hehe dont worry man im the same..
p.s. the Mediterranean and Persian gulf are two different bodies of water ;) and im from the the Persian/arabia (call it what you want) gulf
 

Adrian

Deeper Blue Beachcomber
Supporter
Nov 23, 2002
2,691
533
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OK Folks,
I recieved a reply from an expert. Normally I'd just PM Chris E. with it but I'd like to post it because it's one more example showing that we shouldn't take everything we see on internet as true, even with insignificant details such as a signature! After reading the version that is closer to the original in Farsi, we could say that even though there are important differences in the wording, the spirit of the original meaning is pretty much intact. But now what to do? I feel I should change my signature, or say "Rumi, as interpreted by Liebert!"

Adrian

..........................

Dear Mr. Valls,

we came whirling
out of nothingness
scattering stars like dust

the stars made a circle
and in the middle we dance

the wheel of heaven
circles God
like a mill
--versions by Daniel Liebert (claimed to be "translations"),
"Rumi: Fragments, Ecstasies," Source Books, Santa Fe, New
Mexico, 1981, p. 3

---------
We came whirling
out of nothingness
scattering stars like dust

--from Rumi's Ghazal No. 782, based on an authentic
translation from Persian by A. J. Arberry, "Mystical Poems
of Rumi," U. of Chicago, 1968, pp. 84-5:
"Rose-cheeked ones have come forth whirling out of
nonexistence, such that the stars in heaven are but scatter
before their feet."

-----------
the stars made a circle
and in the middle we dance

--from Rumi's Ghazal No. 196, based on an authentic
translation from Persian by A. J. Arberry, "Mystical Poems
of Rumi," U. of Chicago, 1968, p. 23:
"Sun, moon and stars dancing around the circle, we dancing
in the midst--set that midst a-dancing."

---------
the wheel of heaven
circles God
like a mill
--from Rumi's Ghazal No. 260, based on an authentic
translation from Persian by A. J. Arberry, "Mystical Poems
of Rumi," U. of Chicago, 1968, p. 30:
"The wheel of heaven, with all its pompo and splendour,
circles around God like a mill."

--------

Comments: Liebert was one of the earliest popular "Rumi
translators" who did not know Persian but re-Englished the
authentic translations of scholars without giving them the
credit for their work, and then claimed himself to be a
"translator" (meaning a maker of free-verse "spiritual
translations" of scholarly translations). Barks, Helminski,
Chopra, Star, and Cowan followed suit.
Liebert's version gives the impression that it is one poem,
but the three parts are from three separate ghazal poems by
Rumi (that's why Liebert calls it "fragments").

.....................................
 

Fondueset

Carp Whisperer
Jul 27, 2004
4,604
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There is a wonderful book called 'The Illuminated Rumi'. It is really very nicely done. It combines beautiful and imaginative imagery with rumi's writings - and a few others. The Translator is Coleman Barks. Another heavy duty translator of Rumi's work is Helminski - who has a strong background in the Gurdjieff work (Gurdjieff was a Sufi) and other Sufic streams.

The difficulty with translation of course is to preserve the depth and essence as well as the aesthetic flow - which is the carrier wave of that essence. Some of rumi's work has several levels and facets. The translator really has to understand the material to do it justice.

Another work I like - for gaining insight into the Sufic mode of communication and Sufism in general is Idreas Shah's 'The Sufis'. It allmost becomes like a hidden language one finds everywhere.

'Since we have seen eachother
a game goes on.
Secretly I move
and you respond.
You're winning
you think it's funny.
But look up from the board
Look how I've brought in furniture
to this invisible place
So we can live here.' -Rumi
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
753
218
This speaks to why many Muslims do not approve of the translation of the Quran. Something is always lost or altered in translation: some of the Quran's poetry and even rhyme disappear, for example.
I read a translation of a Hafiz poem that mentions baseball: Hafiz died long before baseball arrived. Knowing Hafiz, he probably could care less, but still....
I suppose we look for the essence and hope the translator feels the Spirit of the words. If I can ignore my own ego, then I should be able to ignore the ego of the translator :mute
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 
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