Why don't UK spearo's use pneumatic guns?

[popgun pete]

Bros, I would check if the 80 is neutrally buoyant first, no point spending that sort of money on a muzzle heavy gun.

It would be good if manufacturers quoted in their specifications the gun's buoyancy as well as gun length overall and a few other dimensions such as shaft length (bare) and shaft with tip. Overall length with spear cocked is another, with various shafts fitted such as screw tip and integral tip. Mares used to say the "Cyrano" guns floated after spear discharge in their instructions, but put a little blue paper slip in the packaging saying that the smallest 550 model did not! Unfortunately you only saw that after you bought the gun. Putting more specifications down on the info sheets should not be beyond them.

 

[Broseidon]

Bros, I would check if the 80 is neutrally buoyant first, no point spending that sort of money on a muzzle heavy gun.

Hmmm... that's a good point buddy... I'll drop them an email tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Antoine]

I'm not a spearfisher and not very interested in weapons so i dont really know why im posting this! Anyway, I heard of this semi-automatic stotgun called the AA12 which can be used in all conditions and also when completely submerged(correct me if i'm wrong-as i said i havn't got much of a clue when it come to weapons!). It would probably take any skill out of spearfishing but does anyone use shot guns with "conventional" bullets for spearfishing?

 

[foxfish]

Err No mate I dont think so!
There was a very popular vid around a few years back of some Russian underwater firearm that used 150mm darts!

 

[denian]

Well answered foxfish.I was trying to come up with a constructive reply !

 

[popgun pete]

I'm not a spearfisher and not very interested in weapons so i dont really know why im posting this! Anyway, I heard of this semi-automatic stotgun called the AA12 which can be used in all conditions and also when completely submerged(correct me if i'm wrong-as i said i havn't got much of a clue when it come to weapons!). It would probably take any skill out of spearfishing but does anyone use shot guns with "conventional" bullets for spearfishing?

It is not called spear-fishing for nothing!

 

[piratesteve]

I've got a Seac Sub Asso 75 and a Cressi SL 50 which is broken. I've fixed it once and then it broke again the complete breakdown and rebuild has still left it.... well broken. The Asso 75 is a bit low tech compared to some of the Mares and Omer models but it seems bomb proof, holds the pressure and I even shot a Cod with it last year!. The AK47 of the pump gun world. If you look at Scubain reviews on Asso guns their are lots of happy punters. I'm not that fussed with pump guns but I wouldn't slag them off, I'm just more used to band guns. I don't have any problems loading it but then its quite short for a 75. I'm gonna use it more for hole work cos it doesn't arf move a 4 prong trident through the water!!!

 

[FreeRestriction]

the saying is, or have I just made it up, you can never have too many guns, or maybe that is from a war movie or something.......

I think the saying goes...

"Fear the man with only one gun"

Because hes had a lot of practice with it so hes probably pretty good with it.

 

[FreeRestriction]

I'm not a spearfisher and not very interested in weapons so i dont really know why im posting this! Anyway, I heard of this semi-automatic stotgun called the AA12 which can be used in all conditions and also when completely submerged(correct me if i'm wrong-as i said i havn't got much of a clue when it come to weapons!). It would probably take any skill out of spearfishing but does anyone use shot guns with "conventional" bullets for spearfishing?

Firearms are very dangerous to fire under water. Assuming you kept the unsealed shotgun ammo powder dry the gun still may blow up in your face from all the pressure created from the water in the bore. And even if it didnt the gun would have horrible range (even by spearing standards) because even a 1 1/8 ounce slug isnt nearly heavy enough to carry any energy and is very broad faced for the weight it does have. And finally thats a semi auto gun. Save your money and get a pump action because it will never function correctly sumberged in water.

 

[slopshot]

I have a cressi 55 and hate it because of the hard trigger pull, would much rather have a mares or asso.

 

[Broseidon]

As I started this thread, I'd like to make a post regarding my experiences with a pneumatic gun.

The point of this thread was to discover WHY people don't use pneumatic guns... well I've answered my own question.

The loading procedure is beyond shocking and ridiculously dangerous. My pneumatic (Sporasub One Air) made it's best efforts to shoot me in the face. It's back with the manufacturers with a suspected firing mech fault.... great.

My massive beef with pneumatics is this:

Imagine how stupid it would be to try and load your band gun by placing the wishbone into the spear, then to take hold of the spear and try and force the spear, with the band in place, down the barrel and into the trigger mech. Fricking crazy right?!?? Well that's exactly what you do with a pneumatic.

The loading procedure is idiotic. I don't care what anyone says, one little slip while loading and it could be a spear to the brain. If you value your safety, DO NOT BUY A PNEUMATIC.

In conclusion to my thread, people don't use pneumatics as they're illogical, dangerous and a bloody liability.

Seriously, anyone who uses pneumatics and wants to disagree with me, please, go and load a band gun by first putting the wishbone in the spear, then pulling the spear down the barrel and clicking it into the trigger mech. Seriously, go and do that and tell me how awesome the experience was.

rofl

/thread.

 

[Derekn]

So, I take it there will be a Sporasub One Air going very cheap some time soon then? :crutch

Serously though, I've never used one and very keen to hear replies...I was waiting for reports on this gun to see if I would buy one for next season.

 

[Broseidon]

Serously though, I've never used one and very keen to hear replies...I was waiting for reports on this gun to see if I would buy one for next season.

Honestly - avoid, avoid, avoid!

I was the first and only person in the UK to get one.

The gun, when it arrived was covered in tool marks, was missing vital instructions / safety parts and mis-fired 2" from my face.

Omer gave me a refund straight away and recalled the gun for testing. They've had it for over a month and I haven't heard a thing from them.

Dealing with Omer has been an absolute comedy from start to finish. Save you time and money and stick with a band gun!!!

 

[Derekn]

I was just reading your posts about the incident...ye, I have to agree that would have scared the bejeepers out of me too and put me off using it as well.
I was reading about the Cressi's...can they be loaded progressively when the power reducer is engaged and then switched back to full power after loading? just curious, I'm still happy with my xxv.

 

[Broseidon]

The XXV is a lovely little gun - I've been using an RA Carbon 90 this season with a single 16mm band - an absolutely faultless gun.

I will be firmly sticking with band guns from now on - I didn't know about progressive loading on the Cressi guns - does that mean that if you push the spear half in, it doesn't shoot out and try to kill you?

Very wise to avoid the One Air - I think there are some serious issues with Omer products at the moment. Just look at the insane delays to their new band gun, the SK40 - it's only a year over-due with a tentative Jan 2013 release date!

 

[Derekn]

- I didn't know about progressive loading on the Cressi guns - does that mean that if you push the spear half in, it doesn't shoot out and try to kill you?

That's the way I read it, but I have no personal experience with it and I'm not sure if that really is the case. I was thinking that it might be an alternative to the One Air if a "Tomba" kit was fitted...like I said I'm only reading up on this and hopefully someone with actual experience can shed some light on it for us.

 

[Derekn]

This is where I read about the progressive loading:

Cressi Spearfishing Spearguns - SL

 

[Broseidon]

Hmmmm.... interesting! I'd like a more technical definition though.

I'm, afraid I'm permanently sold on band guns!

 

[Derekn]

Ye, I'm going to stick with the band guns for now. I'm still curious about the pneumatics but I'd like to try before I buy, the main reason for looking at the One Air was because of the barrel/handle arrangement and not having to re-learn how to aim after using the band guns....lately though, my aim is a bit suspect, but it could also be down to the 1.5 metre white-out vis! rofl

 

[popgun pete]

Progressive loading or "easy loading" involves the air behind the inner barrel sliding piston being pushed back and then trapped behind an internal bulkhead so that if the piston does not fully make it to the catch hook or sear lever then most of the air does not flow back into the inner barrel when you stop pushing on the spear with the hand loader. To use this facility the power regulator has to be on "low power" as that shuts the air transfer port in the internal bulkhead by plugging it with a small piston positioned on the end of a control rod operated by the power regulator lever or cursor in the external selector gate on the grip. The barrel sliding piston will still go back to the muzzle, but the pressure working against it is lower for the next pushing effort as the number of air molecules in the inner barrel and pre-chamber, which is the air volume you are trying to compress, is less than it was before. Conversely the air pressure in the main tank is higher, which is on the other side of the bulkhead, as that is where the "missing air molecules" have gone to. Once the pressure in the inner barrel and pre-chamber is equal to that in the main tank during the next push by the user on the spear a non-return, one-way valve in the internal bulkhead opens and air molecules again transfer across to the main tank. Hence each repeat spear loading stroke is taken against a lower pressure than before as more air molecules are progressively moved into the main tank. The lowest level that the air pressure can get down to is that found in the gun after a low power shot as when the gun is latched the pressure is exactly the same throughout the gun's two air chambers, unless you let some air out of the inlet valve with the regulator set to "low power". You can use all of the gun's air capacity for the shot (power regulator on "high") or just use the air in the pre-chamber and the remaining length of inner barrel behind the latched piston seals (power regulator on "low") which is usually all classified as the pre-chamber. More info can be found here.

http://forums.deeperblue.com/pneumatic-spearguns/86054-pneumatic-speargun-compression-ratio.html

Muzzle loading is more risky than pulling a band back on a band gun, yet thousands of divers have used these guns without any incident, however it pays to have an understanding of how the guns work and to check out their operation periodically at low pressure before the season starts.

It seems that the "One Air" speargun in question was not relatching correctly with the trigger or the line release not repositioning/retracting sufficiently in order to allow a proper mechanism lock to be established, a problem also shared by some band guns in recent times for probably very similar reasons! Altering trigger mechanisms can also invite such problems, such as filing off sear teeth to lower trigger pull. If you hear the mechanism latch you should always pause momentarily before removing the loader to ensure that the spear has been properly caught before removing your hand as quickly as possible, then such problems will be unlikely to occur unless the gun is worn out. Guns that fail to latch should be removed from service pending examination as to the cause.

Only valve operated hydropneumatic guns have the spear push in to a certain distance and then stop there as once the firing or releasing valve shuts the water in the inner barrel cannot expand to push the spear out. Pneumatic guns such as the GSD "Dynamic" also used a firing valve, but the air in the inner barrel expands as there is always some pressure to push the piston back to the muzzle even though successive loading strokes on the spear have moved most of the air and hence put higher pressure into the main tank. In those guns when you pull the trigger a valve opens and the compressed air pushes the spear out as it expands back to the initial pressure and volume inside the gun. The spear is not held mechanically, external pressure keeps it in the gun as to fall out a vacuum has to form behind the seals either on the piston holding the spear or the spear tail itself in the case of the valve operated hydropneumatic models. More expensive to make these guns are less common today and are rarely seen.