wooden euro's

[Memo]

Hahahha i think we all had that kind of lessons from strange guys Honestly speaking, it is making me excited to discover the power approach which you guys already get used to. I hope i can do a rig dive one day with you guys and we will all have serious fun testing different equipment

 

[stoneshot]

Memo,

You and I have briefly discussed Roller guns in the past and and as most know that was Papa Jack P.'s idea! It seems even in the states that we have debates over East coast vs. West coast, again different type of hunting between the two coasts. Again, I would welcome any west coast spearfisherman into my home for a meal they that we as a team had a hand in bringing to the table. I have never hunted the kelps beds of California, I keep wiating for BillMc to invite me!

Fellas it ALL goes to the same place in the END!

 

[Murat]

You guys are so touchy, so whats wrong if we don't like Riffe's new gun?

Although i stated that this new Riffe euro gun is the best in my opinion compared to other Riffes because its more suitable for our environment. Since in Riffe's page, they advertised it as a cheap gun but no priced mentioned. I said i don't give this gun more than 200 dollars because in my mind its market value should be about that much compared to what do i get here between 200-300 dollars range.

I also stated that Americans are power hungry, which i still behind it. There are many proves of this and not only in spearfishing fields. Just check who spent most money to weapons each year. Ok, we better not to distract from topic, i remmembered that i read smillar statement in Daryl Wong's website once a time, that was most of the people is intereste to put one more band but they don't care about accuracy.

I know they are not all same and we generalized the statements.But i don't know whats wrong with this, personally if someone told me you are "powerhungry" i don't mind at all, so what? You guys taking things too seriously.

By the way, i hold the riffe before but never used it.From my point of view and criterations its not MY "perfect gun" for med.

Mike,

Man you behave like we betrayed someone or something..I don't understand this. If you want to tell euro wood guns are crab euro divers are crab go ahead and tell it (which i did not told at the first place for American guns and spearos).At the end of the day this is your decision and i can not change it but respect it.

Here is the link of the original discussion, please check it again and tell me which one of my post have offending words or trecherius behaviour against American Speros and guns.
http://www.medfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=247&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

[shaneshac]

I only posted a pic of a lumberjack cutting a tree trunk:

was only making a fun comment as Ivan and i are always joking. Then ppl started taking the thread seriously.

Here are all my messages after:

"Hey whats a trigger silencer for???

You hoping some fish stay around after you've pulled the trigger?

A fat spear flying through the air and a couple of bands compressing will frighten fish, with or without silencer

I think manufacturers should stop spending cash on useless gimmeks and concentrate on stuff to actually make your fishing more effective.

Adding beautiful camo stickers on a 2005 gun to then call it the new 2006 version and change an extra 30$

Make a gun that shoots straight and stop the estetic crap !"



"Hey guys

Ok, i agree not all americans are like George Bush, but you gotta agree with me that americans tend to live by the rule bigger is better.

Why tune a 3litre engine when a 6litre engine will do

It is the same with guns. In the search for greater power, instead of refining the gun stock to offer a more stable plane to shoot from, you just kept adding mass to the gun for reduction of recoil. Ending up with a huge barrel that could not track a sloth. On top of that they sell wing kits (at no cheap price) to offer the stability they should have added to the barrel in the first place.

I have shot a riffe bluwater and i can say that using that to shoot a fast moving tuna has to be a nightmare "

Then i told Erman he did not know shit about spearguns. "I am sorry!!!"

Then i responded this:

"It was not a personal insult

just you are defending something with little knowledge to back you up.

How many fish have you shot that were swimming from the bottom to the surface?

You know the reason riffe sells wing kits for his guns is that he makes them too narrow?

How can a lighter gun be better to move in the water than a heavier gun if they are both neutral in water?
did you know the lighter the gun, the greater the recoil and therefore the worse the accuracy?


Have you ever shot a tuna? Do you know you can go through a 300k tuna with 2x16mm and the 7mm spear? No need for a riffe with 7 bands.

The tuna problem is not losing them after the shot.

if you knew all this your comments would have been different."

Finally i wrote this:

"And another thing an awesome american spearo told me last week:

Ten years ago most people here wondered if you needed long fins for spearfishing....then they wondered what the point was of carbon fiber for fins and guns, then they wondered about camouflage...
Now the American brand Riffe is making his own long fins, has started camouflaging his guns last year, and now he's making a gun called the "Euro Gun"...

Need i say more?"

 

[stoneshot]

Murat,

I don't think it was the fact that you didn't like Riffe's new eurogun, becuase honstly I don't like the lines of it either. The design looks to me as if could have been better thought out.(pm me Jay or Julie ) However, it was the generalized "American power hungry, we can"t do an aspetto hunt, statement that bothered me,I can't speak for anyonelse. It wasn't so much the Riffe bashing, but rather the American bashing that was going on that offended me. I have only shot a few commercially made guns, a Healthways model when I first started, and some buddies commercially made Riffes,Sea Hornets,Undersee,Wong,JBL,Mares,Dacor, and Cressi. Incidently the JBL, Healthways, and Dacor were basically the same design. I have always built my own guns since I understood the mechanisms that it took to shoot a shaft a certain distance. The mechanics are basically the same in most guns, it has to do with the method of holding the shaft and the materials invloved that differenciates the trigger. Euro guns use a pich type method for most triggers, while most American guns use a squared off sear design, enabling it to hold more pressure. The barrell is also different, some have a rail,some don't, the longer the shaft the more the need for a rail. Small guns really don't need a rail if they have a stiff good shaft.

 

[Fondueset]

I got this argument as being mostly about aeshetics and tactics.

I recently bought a little MT0 - because I thought it would be fun to see how much I can get out of it. I'd like it to do longish shots against fast moving fish while being as small as possible. It'll be fun to see how well it works. So far it seems very accurate.

Nearly everyone told me to get something bigger. I seriously considered a 90 or 100cm Omer t20 - which would be 'perfect' for these waters - rarely less than 30 feet vis. If I find myself in the position of having more access to spearfishing at some point I'd consider getting a second gun - almost certainly a 'euro'. Meantime I like the idea of playing with the very adaptable platform of this little Riffe.

I'm pretty much a minimalist by nature - I considered a pole spear - but I don't want to spear fish that will come that close to me - unless I'm really hungry

Argument, in this topic, is a choice. There really isn't any. It's just a matter of what you like - and if you can handle being poked fun at a little.

 

[Murat]

well, it does not worth to draw the hatchets, isn't it?

ps. i think Americans speros can perform aspetto as well as european speros, but may be this is not very essential in US.

 

[Eric Walker]

Argument, in this topic, is a choice. There really isn't any. It's just a matter of what you like - [/QUOTE] Originally posted by Fondueset. I really did not want to post the entire quote over again.

That pretty much sums it up right there.
Eric

 

[stoneshot]

quote
"I'm pretty much a minimalist by nature - I considered a pole spear - but I don't want to spear fish that will come that close to me - unless I'm really hungry" end quote.

Don't discount the humble pole spear, I keep a polespear and sling in my truck always, just in case I might want to slip in somewhere if I happen to pass a good looking stretch of water! I have taken fish up to 50 lbs. with a pole and fish over 60 lbs with a sling. It is all in your actions in the water, and how comforatbl you are in your surroundings.

 

[Amphibious]

Have spearfished In Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Canada, Mexico & the US. Fresh & Saltwater.

it's all the same shit. you guys need cool down a have a group hug or go stroke your guns or something.

Me? I have a wooden Euro. figure I have the best of both worlds.

 

[greendiver]

Well, ok i will try to cover up the topic a little bit I tried to stay silent most of the time in other forum and in here upto now but i think it is the time to settle things down. You are totally right about prejudged approach and generalized american spearo profile. I believe there are great hunters in your waters and also great manufacturers, pioneers who initiated some trends which we follow and which we set as bases of development.

The euro-riffe topic which initiated all these discussions started as a tread to have some laugh. But needless to say, i think we went a bit too far in the sarcastic approach and comments became stronger.

It is true that its not the gun but the hunter who lands the fish at the end of the day and obviously what works good for you is the best for you So, i believe it is now your challenge to shoot some nice dentex with riffe guns Erman I will be your number 1 supporter if you try to do so

Memo...dude .....you should become a politician!!

 

[Spearingfish]

First of all Im glad you've discovered the virtues of wood. beats the hell out of aluminum or plastic doesnt it...oh yeah, your welcome. We've only been saying that for decades. You think your fish are challenging, go to Hawaii...hands down the smartest fish in the world.

instead of playing the superiority game you should understand a little spearfishing history.
your American brother
Mike

You are playing the superiority game. That is your opinion. And that's all it is - Opinion.
And a stupid one at that. The so-called "intelligence" of the fish in Hawaii is solely dependent on the area that you fish. Should you fish in a highly-impacted area, sure the fish will be smart. Among the smartest fish in the world? Maybe, but it has nothing to do with Hawaii, it has everything to do with the SPECIFIC SPOT YOU ARE FISHING.

If you fish off the smaller islands in Hawaii, they are some of the dumbest around. Yes even the MUS. Similar to ANYWHERE ELSE in the world that gets impacted(or NOT impacted) by divers. What a blatantly unintelligible generalization.

Instead of playing the superiority game, you should understand why fish become "smart" - because people frequent the areas more and more and the fish get shot at. I will repeat since sometimes people are slow: It has nothing to do with HAWAII. It has everything to do with the spearfishing population and the specific areas being fished.

Simply going to Hawaii will not guarantee my encounter with a smart fish. From my travels, dentex are harder than Black Grouper and even harder than mu.

Please make fewer generalizations.

Class dismissed.

 

[stoneshot]

You are playing the superiority game. That is your opinion. And that's all it is - Opinion.
And a stupid one at that. The so-called "intelligence" of the fish in Hawaii is solely dependent on the area that you fish. Should you fish in a highly-impacted area, sure the fish will be smart. Among the smartest fish in the world? Maybe, but it has nothing to do with Hawaii, it has everything to do with the SPECIFIC SPOT YOU ARE FISHING.

If you fish off the smaller islands in Hawaii, they are some of the dumbest around. Yes even the MUS. Similar to ANYWHERE ELSE in the world that gets impacted(or NOT impacted) by divers. What a blatantly unintelligible generalization.

Instead of playing the superiority game, you should understand why fish become "smart" - because people frequent the areas more and more and the fish get shot at. I will repeat since sometimes people are slow: It has nothing to do with HAWAII. It has everything to do with the spearfishing population and the specific areas being fished.

Simply going to Hawaii will not guarantee my encounter with a smart fish. From my travels, dentex are harder than Black Grouper and even harder than mu.

Please make fewer generalizations.

Class dismissed.

What???????

I am sorry brother but you obviusly have not spearfished very much on any of Hawaii's coasts! Unlike most of the south and north American coast these areas have been inhabited for alot longer continuously. If you do not believe that lower species like fish teach the next generation, you are sorely mistaken. Anyone who has hunted Dentex or Hogfish for that matter can school you on that fact. Yes, it always has to do with the spearo, but different fish require different tactics. Whithin a hunt I have to change my stalking methods for what type of species I encounter. I have shot pelagics in 10' of water, and hogfish in 110' of water, you never know what you will see. You simply can not generalize statements like that, it Does have something to do with Hawaii and the culture of the area! That is why they sell spearfishing equipment in the Walmarts in Hawaii and not even here in Florida!

It is generalized assumptions like that, that started this whole mess!


With respect,

 

[greendiver]

You know what...I think that you guys are taking this a bit to...serious...cmon guys!!!!!

 

[stoneshot]

I have tried to give some insight on both Euro gun design and American gun design. Hopefully, spearos of all areas will realize once and for all that, it all depends on your situation, and that is it, everything is derived from that! The style of gun you shoot, the style of hunting/stalking you do, even the type of stringer you use is determined by your situation.

Good luck everyone, dive safe , and no your limits!

Respectfully-------- I am done on this thread

 

[Fondueset]

I bought an American, Aluminum speargun because, by God - if it's good enough for the F18 superhornet and mom's apple-pie tin, it's darned well good enough for me. Plus I can use it to jack up my El Camino.

If you european people choose to fashion yours from hard-earned wood out of the fertile soils of your ancient and strange civilizations - well by golly I wouldn't be an american if I didn't give you a big pat on the back and a 'Good-onya-Mate!'.

You go with your handle-on-the-back-maybe-sometimes-made-of-wood-even-if-you-did-or-didn't-invent-it-mostly-one-banded-thin-shafted-arbalete-lookin-but-especially-not-clunky-or-with-too-many-bands-but-you-can-still-spear-big-fish speargun - you interesting european people; with your Croissants and your thoughtful hats and Olives. I have only respect for the wisdom and clothing of your mysterious culture and, while I've never had the chance to try an 'aspetto', I'm sure they are just delicious.

God Save the Queen

 

[rigdvr]

You are playing the superiority game. That is your opinion. And that's all it is - Opinion.
And a stupid one at that. ...

Please make fewer generalizations.

Class dismissed.

When did class start? All I learned is that you have alot to learn.
Mike Freeman

 

[rigdvr]

Murat,
"Americans!!!as long as you give them power no one cares the rest. Thats all matters." say what?

" How many American spero knows about shooting balistics? Lots of them, check Kittos, Alexanders, or Terry Mass' websites, they were testing ballistics and rubbers stretch long before you thought of it...they even built tanks and utilized slow mo videography to compare ballistics results... They only cares about how many bands you can put on it. They don't know the ballistic properties of differently shaped barells. " Once again Im calling BS.

Like I said Murat, you showed a lack of knowledge in these subjects. I was dissappointed to see that b/c I remember 3 years ago and DO realize how much you've pregressed as a hunter.

Shaneshac
"Ok, i agree not all americans are like George Bush, but you gotta agree with me that americans tend to live by the rule bigger is better" yup, bigger fish are better

"Have you ever shot a tuna?" have you? 3? what , bonitas? Yrellowfin, bluefin?

Kgian,
" have gone spearing in the USA with a recent US national champion. He was a great guy, but not a great spearo. No need to be of course. Plenty of fish to shoot.
He had no great technique and no good diving skills. Actually he was really impressed by my performance in both diving and fishing... Remember, he was US no1." who was that? definately not some of the best I know in the states...Terry Maas, Bill Ernst, GR Tarr, Cameron Kirkonnel, Ritchie Zacher, Brandon Whalers, Darl Wong, Rick Bettua, the list could go on and on...who is this mystery #1 man?

Im all for the right gun for the job...and always talked about tolerences for our cultural differences. I think the new genre of wooden euro guns are beautiful and effective but I cant shoot one for crap On the other hand my mid handled hybrid is spot on in my hands...its what Im used to. As for not being worried about shot placement on our big fish, you couldnt be more wrong...the last thing I want is a pissed of AJ or cobia pulling me through an oil rig :crutch or wrapping itself to the platform 150' down. Some of the rigs are in 1000' or more of water...the last thing I want is a poor shot when I can worry about placement and roll him

To each their own and just keep posting the pics. No disrespect to the med guys. You all have to hunt incredibly hard for your catches and though I have never hunted your waters or shot your guns, I can respect the time and skill it requires to do what we all do worldwide.

Now schools out :girlie

 

[Groupermadness]

Hi Rigdvr.
I just finished reading terry maas's books on spearfishing, i bought the book simply because i wanted more information on open water hunting tecniques and in my mind the american/south African spearos know a bit more than Europeans do on this matter(Generaly), what a guy, the techniques you use are for a very diferent type of hunting therfore you do need a strong sturdy gun with a fair wack of power, for anything to pass through armour plated tuna and aj and all the other big fish you have and the technique you use then you need what years of trial and error have got you "big wooden powerful guns" we euro spearo's however have come to our conclusions and we generaly use light alloy guns for our style of hunting both seem to work very well ,however we euro's do, like most people do, want to have that "V8 Mustang" in our collection, even if it is "over the top".......

 

[Marwan]

Guys come on, there's too much testosterone in this post, being sort of an intermediate opinion, let me say this, we're all a bunch of sissy's no matter what gun we are using. The real spearo uses a pole, a mask and fins , what do you say
cheers and like amphibious says GROUP HUG