wooden euro's

In America, fishes are so plenty and stupid (i guess that not from personal experiance) that they don't need to do "aspetto" at all, general technique should be the tower/drop technique. And again what they consider accurate there is probably not so accurate in med. sea standarts. I mean does it really matters if the spears hit 5cm lower or higher than the aim point when you shoot 30kg fish???

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This has to be one of the most off base generalizations I've read in an on-line forum in a while. The Hawaian Mu's and Uhu's will certainly not be landed with "tower" drop techniques. Neither will most Mutton Snappers in Florida. To suggest that only Europeans need to perform aspettos to land fish is ridiculous.

It's not fair to make blatant comments regarding spearfishing in other regions without consistently diving it those areas. One can't make those generalizations without diving these waters yourself. Would it be fair for me to describe how to land a dentex in the Aegean or how to shoot sargos off Galicia? Different strokes for different folks and we Americans have plenty of shooters here too :thankyou .

Man, I miss Alison's tact and insight particularly in threads like these.

Fondueset said:

...............................................you interesting european people; with your Croissants and your thoughtful hats and Olives. I have only respect for the wisdom and clothing of your mysterious culture and, while I've never had the chance to try an 'aspetto', I'm sure they are just delicious.

God Save the Queen

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Fondueset hit the nail right on the head! ...........I mean, who wouldn't want to dress like the cool Euro dudes!

rofl rofl rofl

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Erman & Miles,
I’m a big fan of Metal Tech’s and own three of them, but I would like to hear who takes 4-5M accurate shots with a MT-0 and what modifications they have done to the gun. True Iya did a lot of testing with an ultra powered MT-0 but I don’t believe he ever considered it accurate. Last I knew he preferred his MT-3 for Dog Tooth tuna in open water, because he was more accurate with it.

I’m not accurate at all with MT1 & MT2. With my MT2 I land fish about 50% of the times I pull the trigger, but with MT4 it’s over 70%. I would rather have a slightly slower swing time and the difficulties of diving with a larger gun and have a higher hit percent.

This leads me to a question I have wondered many times. Is a longer gun really that much more accurate in where it shoots the spear, or is because it is easier to line up to a target? Since spearguns don’t have sights, they are lined up viewing their position in relationship to the fish. A longer gun is easier to see that it is aimed straight at the fish than a shorter gun. Plus, because the band stretch is greater, a longer gun does not need as much rubber (number and diameter) to be powerful, thus it can have less recoil for the same amount of power.

Maybe it’s just my eye sight or something, but I am more accurate with a longer American gun or a Euro gun because I have more gun out in front of me to line up with. This of course is when shooting at some distance. Cave, coral holes, or very low vis: I may prefer a short mid handle gun.

Iya and Ivan (Asturven) are both friends. I have never had the opportunity to dive with Iya because I don’t make it to Indonesia often and he doesn’t make it to Texas often either. I do dive with Ivan though and he like Iya is extremely knowledgeable. He arrives with a car load of guns and shoots them all with almost equal success. He often changes guns not because he of success or change in environment, but just because he wants to try something else. He is an engineer by trade so with his spearfishing love he loves to evaluate gear and usually focuses on the good of each design.

The whole American gun verses Euro gun and who is slamming which gun is silly. I like American guns myself, but who could possibly argue with what the winning divers are using in both the U.S. National championships and the World Championships? In some environments they excel. Besides who cares if someone doesn’t like the type of gun you do? It’s not like they are basing your mother!
Don

PS we probably won’t hear from Iya unless someone e-mails him and asks him to post. He has not posted on db in 5 months and his previous post before that was 6 months earlier.

I haven't shot my 0 much - other than a little target practice - but the one time I did shoot it at a fish it seemed shockingly accurate. I say that because I shot at a fish that was moving fast and out of range with only two bands and intending to miss - and hit within an inch of exactly where I was aiming - though the shaft was almost out of energy and only stunned it. I put a 38inch shaft on it partly for the reason you mention - longer - slightly nose heavy guns are easier to aim.

I'll only be spearfishing here occasionally and thought it would be fun to experiment with the MT0 after reading Iya's posts and talking with him over at spearboard. I'd like to hear his conclusions about accuracy.

Back when I was experimenting alot with spearguns I definitely found the arbalete design much easier to aim - I also had a couple of pneumatics - both mid-handle - and the longer of the two was much easier to aim. The other one was back heavy and I never did hit anything with it. With the Arbaletes the line of site along the barrel starts at your hand - so it does not pivot like a mid-handle where the back of the gun shifts relative to the front when you turn it. In my opinion the rear handle design is much more naturally conducive to very accurate shooting against smaller fast moving targets. Mid-handle shooting - expecially with a very short gun - requires a different style.

The argument about which is best is so absurd that I find it impossible to take seriously.

What is this about the magnetic track of Riffe’s new Euro gun? Isn’t the 17-4 stainless that Riffe uses for shafts pretty much non-magnetic? Are they using a different metal for the shafts of this gun?

Also, if the magnetic track holds the shaft on the gun, then why do they need to loop the shooting line over the shaft? To me one of the best things about an enclosed track is getting rid of that sharp bend, because with mono or cable it kinks the line there and eventually leads to failure. It’s also faster to string without it

Fondueset said:

The argument about which is best is so absurd that I find it impossible to take seriously.

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Fondueset,

It was certainly not an arguement about which is better or worse, rather a one-sided mud-slinging about how stupid and useless American guns, American freedivers not knowing anyting about aspetto and balistics, American's wanting only more and more power not caring about accuracy of the gun, Ocean going pelagics being so stupid, me not knowing shit about guns, etc, etc, etc....

Silly thing is if I thought at least some may have a cool-head and smart enough to think before barfing pea-soup at me or anything American, I am completely dissapointed.

E

Rolando said:

Man, I miss Alison's tact and insight particularly in threads like these.

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Yeah me too, I can imagine her chuckling away at this one. It had become her pet subject this year, especially after the ribbing we gave her at the end of last year when she bought a mid handled riffe, "we'll see" she said, and she was right and out shot us all! By no small margin either. She used to go on and on saying "its a bad craftsman that balmes his tools" or "99% of all guns shoot consistently, if you cant hit the fish, learn how to shoot", teasing always but many a true word...

As it happens I'm a Rob Allen owner but I was supprised how well the riffe performed, I'll not be knocking them thats for sure.

I closed this thread because there was too much name-calling and unnecessary ill-will being generated. In other words, too much heat and not enough light.