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world championships 2006
- Thread starterimmerlustig
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Yes its an intresting chunk of money. Specially when seeing doussins of sponsors involved.
As comparison - I have arranged s CWT-DYN-STA comp for about 100 euro (incl bed, training). And Sweden is expensive compared to Egypt.
What does the other championships charge (Laussanne 20 Euro per disciplin ??, 16 euros for a bed??)
Knowing Egypt somewhat I dont think the sponsors give much to the event. Their names probably has to be there to show them respect and not having them working against you.
I wonder if the Aidaboard put any demands on the organization like wanting to have an eye in their budget and see that there are no unneccessary wages beeing payed out. Or maybe - once you have been awarded the event you can charge whatever you feel like.
Trimix might be a big expense - dont know if the main safety will be scuba or anti-ballast.
Sebastian
As comparison - I have arranged s CWT-DYN-STA comp for about 100 euro (incl bed, training). And Sweden is expensive compared to Egypt.
What does the other championships charge (Laussanne 20 Euro per disciplin ??, 16 euros for a bed??)
Knowing Egypt somewhat I dont think the sponsors give much to the event. Their names probably has to be there to show them respect and not having them working against you.
I wonder if the Aidaboard put any demands on the organization like wanting to have an eye in their budget and see that there are no unneccessary wages beeing payed out. Or maybe - once you have been awarded the event you can charge whatever you feel like.
Trimix might be a big expense - dont know if the main safety will be scuba or anti-ballast.
Sebastian
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Interesting - it was 650 USD for each competitor during the Vancouver Worlds and you got less (based on what is being stated on the competitions pages).
Does anyone know what it cost at other AIDA Team World Championship events?
Does anyone know what it cost at other AIDA Team World Championship events?
you get 1 week all inclusive holidays in one of those ridiculous 5 star hotels, flight from europe, food, the whole lot, for about half that price.
maybe it's a typing error??
roland
maybe it's a typing error??
roland
Until you have run a full AIDA International or World Champ it is impossible to imagine the expense involved. It is not just a bunch of Freedivers jumping in the ocean and pool. As Eric said the Vancouver barge was $15000. The AIDA judges do not pay their own expenses and neither should they. The Volunteers all give their time, expertise and loan very expensive equipment free of charge.
The French open was very cheap to enter this year but there was no scuba cover, accomodation was not included and some poor volunteer had at least $5000 worth of video equipment flooded.
I can go on. Think about the amount of rope you need, 50m swimming pools are not cheap to rent. Diving gas, drinking water IT equipment etc etc.
It is really easy to criticise and incredibly hard to run an International Competition.
The French open was very cheap to enter this year but there was no scuba cover, accomodation was not included and some poor volunteer had at least $5000 worth of video equipment flooded.
I can go on. Think about the amount of rope you need, 50m swimming pools are not cheap to rent. Diving gas, drinking water IT equipment etc etc.
It is really easy to criticise and incredibly hard to run an International Competition.
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FYI: Insurance alone for the UK Champs next year would be £700.... our other major costs last year included rope and rigging for the dive platform, gas for the scuba divers, travel and accomodation fee for the doctor, rent of the pool, rent of rooms for judges to use, entry fees to the dive site... the carabiners to send the tags down the line cost £5 each...
We did really well for sponsors and people volunteering to help but I still made a loss. I doubt I will be able to do it again without a significantly higher entry fee than last time, if at all.
I have absolutely NO idea how people do some of the comps out there for the cheap entry fees we see around - I assume they are all doing it without insurance and with a lot of free labour!! Long live the Monkeys!
S
We did really well for sponsors and people volunteering to help but I still made a loss. I doubt I will be able to do it again without a significantly higher entry fee than last time, if at all.
I have absolutely NO idea how people do some of the comps out there for the cheap entry fees we see around - I assume they are all doing it without insurance and with a lot of free labour!! Long live the Monkeys!
S
If Egypt have set their entry fee at 595 Euros it will no doubt be because that is what they deem necessary to cover their costs. As far as I know, every major freediving event so far held, has run at a loss or has been borderline break even. So if the crew in Egypt can learn from the losses incurred by Howard J from the two Cyprus events, and from Kirk for the AIDA Worlds in Canada and from all their freediving friends who have hosted competitions - don't knock them. You don't have to enter.
These incredible events take months of planning - all unpaid time, effort and expertise by some very generous and driven individuals. Perhaps it's time to remove the word *Free* that has permeated the sport.
Egypt - you have my whole-hearted support.
These incredible events take months of planning - all unpaid time, effort and expertise by some very generous and driven individuals. Perhaps it's time to remove the word *Free* that has permeated the sport.
Egypt - you have my whole-hearted support.
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samdive said:
- No insurance (freediving is not dangerous
- No scuba, only anti-ballast (maybe a pair ready at the surface).
- No barge - only small boats (gives flexibility).
- Work with instituitions that are involved in charity and sports.
- Have good relationships with the city council (good prices for pool).
- Dont put the judges/doctors in five star hotels.
- Dont use 5pound carabiners, put the tags down there from the beginning.
- No un-manned videosubmarines.
- Only pay the volunteers for transport and food.
- Don´t expect any sallary - freediving is part of your leisure time.
- Smile and have a good time.
Its all a question of seeing it as a "company" OR just a "volunteer- society" kind of thing. I guess there is room for both approaches.
http://www.fridykning.se/nordicdeep
Egypt happens to be a CHEAP country and there seems to be sponsors - that´s why the entry fee can be questioned. And there is not the option of NOT going - It is the world team championship!!
regards
Sebastian
Sweden
I think the model Sebastian proposes is well and good for most competitions and pretty close to the model we work in here (with a few expections). In Finland, the nice thing is that things like pools etc are usually virtually free and insurance is pretty much taken care of by the divers' federation (over 10 000 members since it covers scuba as well). So sure, it can be done. I'm most impressed with your Nordic Apnea event. Must've been some work organizing all that!
But for a WORLD championship, I like the idea of having a barge and scuba divers just because of the media! I very much like the idea that there are scuba divers armed with video cameras all along the way. It's supposed to be pompous and big. Of course I wish the competitors didn't have to pay for it. I'd rather it be the thousands of spectators that come there to watch...I wish
But almost 600e...That's a lot of cash...
But for a WORLD championship, I like the idea of having a barge and scuba divers just because of the media! I very much like the idea that there are scuba divers armed with video cameras all along the way. It's supposed to be pompous and big. Of course I wish the competitors didn't have to pay for it. I'd rather it be the thousands of spectators that come there to watch...I wish
But almost 600e...That's a lot of cash...
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The question is not if it is expensive for Egypt but whether it is expensive with regards to providing a big international competition. Considering what is being provided I would say it sounds cheap.
I agree that an event of this magnitude, with the interest to make it promotable and world class, is much more expensive than Sebastien's recommendations. I also think that is what a lot of countries will wish to take part in for a world championship, rather than a small, on the cheap competition.
However, I think it is unfair to say it is pretty cheap, especially when sitting in a country where the currency is worth more than double most other countries. Remember the real meaning of international... differences. So, to the British this competition is priced no more than what one might spend on weekend entertainment. For others this is what they make in a month. Maybe in the future international competitions should have fees that are adjusted to compensate for these differences. The necessary funds for the competition are assessed and then average wage of the country determines a scaled amount of how much that country pays. This would promote international attendance due to equaling out the burden of paying for the event. In that case the British would be paying like 1200Euro or more for the Egypt event or something. Now how would you feel about the price?
At the end of the day, hopefully the price is justified in terms of what was provided and where it is provided, and that it works out for everybody.
However, I think it is unfair to say it is pretty cheap, especially when sitting in a country where the currency is worth more than double most other countries. Remember the real meaning of international... differences. So, to the British this competition is priced no more than what one might spend on weekend entertainment. For others this is what they make in a month. Maybe in the future international competitions should have fees that are adjusted to compensate for these differences. The necessary funds for the competition are assessed and then average wage of the country determines a scaled amount of how much that country pays. This would promote international attendance due to equaling out the burden of paying for the event. In that case the British would be paying like 1200Euro or more for the Egypt event or something. Now how would you feel about the price?
At the end of the day, hopefully the price is justified in terms of what was provided and where it is provided, and that it works out for everybody.
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cebaztian - in reply....
- No insurance (freediving is not dangerous
I would not be legally able to do this in the UK with no insurance, and would open myself, the BFA, any sponsors and the dive site up to millions of pounds of liability claims and legal challenges if I did.
- No scuba, only anti-ballast (maybe a pair ready at the surface).
the dive site we use currently only lets us freedive below 25m with scuba cover - and for the location, the viz and the set up we have now, I totally agree with them that that is the way to go (looking to change/adapt for the future but that is also expensive and takes time)
- No barge - only small boats (gives flexibility).
No boats allowed on our lake, we had to build a small pontoon
- Work with instituitions that are involved in charity and sports.
none of them in the UK will give money to freediving, we have tried,we are not seen as a serious sport
- Have good relationships with the city council (good prices for pool).
Council pools here do not usually allow freediving, we have to rent hotel or private school pools, its expensive. When we can use a council pool, we have to hire council life guards which costs a lot.
- Dont put the judges/doctors in five star hotels.
I didn't, but if the doctor had decided to charge for her services it would have cost a lot more than the "reasonable" hotel she eventually stayed at - its all about balance!
- Dont use 5pound carabiners, put the tags down there from the beginning
and then with 30 tags - how many people would have got their lanyard caught up? everyone would have been diving about half a metre short, no one would have got their own tag with their own name on (important to the uk divers for some reason!)
- No un-manned videosubmarines.
good idea, I will get rid of them next time
- Only pay the volunteers for transport and food.
I didn't even pay them that
- Don´t expect any sallary - freediving is part of your leisure time.
You are kidding - no salary from the competition whatsoever just loss - but I do take payment for teaching, teaching diving is my profession.
- Smile and have a good time
sure, we do our best but its hard when you can't afford to eat afterwards!!
Moral of the story - it depends on where in the world you live!
- No insurance (freediving is not dangerous
I would not be legally able to do this in the UK with no insurance, and would open myself, the BFA, any sponsors and the dive site up to millions of pounds of liability claims and legal challenges if I did.
- No scuba, only anti-ballast (maybe a pair ready at the surface).
the dive site we use currently only lets us freedive below 25m with scuba cover - and for the location, the viz and the set up we have now, I totally agree with them that that is the way to go (looking to change/adapt for the future but that is also expensive and takes time)
- No barge - only small boats (gives flexibility).
No boats allowed on our lake, we had to build a small pontoon
- Work with instituitions that are involved in charity and sports.
none of them in the UK will give money to freediving, we have tried,we are not seen as a serious sport
- Have good relationships with the city council (good prices for pool).
Council pools here do not usually allow freediving, we have to rent hotel or private school pools, its expensive. When we can use a council pool, we have to hire council life guards which costs a lot.
- Dont put the judges/doctors in five star hotels.
I didn't, but if the doctor had decided to charge for her services it would have cost a lot more than the "reasonable" hotel she eventually stayed at - its all about balance!
- Dont use 5pound carabiners, put the tags down there from the beginning
and then with 30 tags - how many people would have got their lanyard caught up? everyone would have been diving about half a metre short, no one would have got their own tag with their own name on (important to the uk divers for some reason!)
- No un-manned videosubmarines.
good idea, I will get rid of them next time
- Only pay the volunteers for transport and food.
I didn't even pay them that
- Don´t expect any sallary - freediving is part of your leisure time.
You are kidding - no salary from the competition whatsoever just loss - but I do take payment for teaching, teaching diving is my profession.
- Smile and have a good time
sure, we do our best but its hard when you can't afford to eat afterwards!!
Moral of the story - it depends on where in the world you live!
well yes Sara - it does sound a lot for Egypt when I am getting emails through from tour operators offering me week in Sharm for £199 including flights and hotels..
but then where Yehia is operating, all the hotels are super luxury, scuba gas costs are very high, import duty on all the equipment needed will be large and unpredictable - so who are we to judge? I assume it has all be worked out properly and accounted for. Everyone has lots of time to raise sponsorship - get out there and ask!
Sam
but then where Yehia is operating, all the hotels are super luxury, scuba gas costs are very high, import duty on all the equipment needed will be large and unpredictable - so who are we to judge? I assume it has all be worked out properly and accounted for. Everyone has lots of time to raise sponsorship - get out there and ask!
Sam
Tyler,
I think your solution is a admirable one however probably unworkable as it is very open to disagreement on how things are worked out.
My comments were not based on the fact that 595 Euro sounds like a 10 days of competition for the price of a weekends partying (BTW - i'd love to meet the brits you seem to know who can afford to spend that amount on a weekend) - but more along the lines that I am vaguely aware of how much hotel accomodation (half board), support divers, logistics, etc... cost (even in Egypt) so thought it probably represented good value for money.
At the end of the day most international competitions look to provide some sponsorship for facilities and accomodation, however it is generally up to the teams (and countries) coming to find relevant sponsors (which has always been difficult in the FreeDiving world).
I think your solution is a admirable one however probably unworkable as it is very open to disagreement on how things are worked out.
My comments were not based on the fact that 595 Euro sounds like a 10 days of competition for the price of a weekends partying (BTW - i'd love to meet the brits you seem to know who can afford to spend that amount on a weekend) - but more along the lines that I am vaguely aware of how much hotel accomodation (half board), support divers, logistics, etc... cost (even in Egypt) so thought it probably represented good value for money.
At the end of the day most international competitions look to provide some sponsorship for facilities and accomodation, however it is generally up to the teams (and countries) coming to find relevant sponsors (which has always been difficult in the FreeDiving world).
... well last time I was there it was with the IT crew ... that is before the dot com crash.
595 Eur = 391GBP = 846.09CAD
So, my point is if you take a person who makes 391GBP in two days in Britain, it will take them more than four days doing the same thing to make that money in Canada, and Canada is a fairly well to do country. So, for those coming from South America or eastern European countries, it could be more than a month to make such funds and definately much more to make that much in saved monies to spend on a competition. It is fairly easy to set aside monies from 2 days worth of work, but can you imagine saving up more than a months worth? Takes a while for some people. I am sharing this just to promote a sense of perspective and empathy towards our community.
Anyhow I understand your points and agree with the clarifications.
Cheers,
Tyler
... that is before the dot com crash.595 Eur = 391GBP = 846.09CAD
So, my point is if you take a person who makes 391GBP in two days in Britain, it will take them more than four days doing the same thing to make that money in Canada, and Canada is a fairly well to do country. So, for those coming from South America or eastern European countries, it could be more than a month to make such funds and definately much more to make that much in saved monies to spend on a competition. It is fairly easy to set aside monies from 2 days worth of work, but can you imagine saving up more than a months worth? Takes a while for some people. I am sharing this just to promote a sense of perspective and empathy towards our community.
Anyhow I understand your points and agree with the clarifications.
Cheers,
Tyler