World Freediving Award

[CEngelbrecht]

Let's face it, the hammering of the Sharm event was a de facto motion of no confidence against the then AIDA President. For the right or wrong reasons, I still haven't figured it out. The Kiwi event slipped through because the AIDA brasses maintained confidence in those organizers. But there is a certain level of hypocrisy between those two decisions.

 

[chrismar]

New Zealand is not Europe. The nearest non-NZ judge is Grant, who has previously been good enough to come but couldn't make it this time. Flights just for him cost in the order of US$1800. To get a judge from Europe (none of which wanted to come, if I recollect), Flights would be more like US$3-4000. When we couldn't get another judge, we discussed with Grant, Robert and Kimmo. Although it was well within the rules and guidelines for competitions to use a local judge and an international one, we wanted everything to be above board to avoid nonsense as above. The fact that we're 10,000 kilometers away from the nearest foreign A/B level judge and nearly 20,000 from most of them makes our life more difficult. Being in a small country also means sponsorship is harder. We don't have the luxury of competitions close by run by others and can't force European judges to spend thirty hours on a plane to fly to the exact opposite side of the world for a few days at short notice.

You know better than anyone that the Sharm comp was about the coaching and financial relationship between you and one of the athletes. Fran doesn't even live in New Zealand, let alone had any form of relationship. Not exactly the same, is it? Anyway, I'll stop trying to fight back with facts. Experience shows it's not worth the effort.

 

[Billextreme]

Chrismar,

Cressi World Record Challenge followed the competition rules, just like the Sharm comp did. BUT in the Sharm case, after 8 months, they use a "non rule" from a document that is a guide how to select judges for separate WR attempts (not for competitions). If you use the same guide for the Cressi World Record Challenge, and the exactly same paragraf (!) They have to do the same thing with Cressi World Record Challenge as they did with the Sharm competition.

/B

 

[chrismar]

Sorry Bill, but which part of the COI was violated? I've attached the AIDA guidelines on conflicts of interest so you can point out the paragraph you're referring to.

The rules state that there must be an A or B level judge and one judge of a different nationality. That would be Fran and Walter (who I believe is a B-level judge now anyway) respectively.

If you'd like I can attach the rest of the information around the Sharm comp to show the differences. Let me know.

EDIT:
Just for the record, I think it's a pity that Natalia lost her records. She's a great athlete and a lovely person. I spent a bit of time with her at the '09 WCs and lots of time with Alexy. Great people.

 

[Billextreme]

Dear Chrismar,

It looks like you do not really understand.

Fran, NZL, was the only B level (or higher) judge at the comp, and the NZL athlete was the one going for the WR. The second judge was Walter, a D level judge from AUS (still a D level: International judges)

Only B level or higher can verify a WR, and by selecting Fran for this, they also create a COI situation. It was a comp, and with WR status you have to make sure that there can be a WR even if there is a protest. If there was a protest at the Cressi comp, Fran could not handle the protest at all, not even be in the protest room where the judges should handle the protest. In that case you have a situation where the judge who judge the performance in the first place also is the one handle the protest alone. Soo the athlete will not have a fair chance to have a real second opinion. And more is that the only judge in the room is a low level judge who do not have the right level to judge WR in the first place. Except for world championship where you have a minimum of 5 judges to make sure that if something goes wrong, there will be a protest and plenty of judges correcting mistakes.

Then you have to remember that there did not exist any COI document at the Sharm competition 2009. And the secret investigation group used a a no-rule document, AIDA Judges Internal Operations and Procedures v6.0, that is working as a guide for the people selecting judge for separate WR attempts. ( http://www.aida-international.org/aspportal1/scripts/aida judge.iop.v6.0.pdf ) And the paragraph they used was 10.1, and if you use this paragraph for one athlete, you have to use it for all...

have a nice day
/B

 

[Kimmo]

Hello freedivers,

Sorry for this kind of off topic commenting but as my name was mentioned I would be willing to comment this thread on my behalf.

As far I have understood, Aida Assembly members made a clear decision after Aida Board members about Sharms competition by vote. So there is no any anonymous party called "they". If there is still something unclear I suggest all the parties involved to read Aida governance documents at Aida website and also to read the decision documents one more time. It was the first time in Aida history when this kind of case was handled at all the decision making levels and when all the parties involved was heard (compared to Martin Stepanek´s rejected record dive and Stig Severinsen rejected record dive this was a right move ahead in this kind of governance).

NZ competition was checked and approved by Aida judge responsible and sport officer and personally I rely on their competence. Personally I would be also willing to see some "camouflage competitions" as I´m pretty sure what might happen next when this kind of competition would be revealed with some real evidence. Aida International has a good process available for that kind of behavior.

Last, but not least, I´m willing to fully agree with Chrismars comment: "I think it's a pity that Natalia lost her records. She's a great athlete and a lovely person. I spent a bit of time with her at the '09 WCs and lots of time with Alexy. Great people"

br,

- Kimmo Lahtinen, president of Aida

 

[aris ioannidis]

and congratulations to all the divers winning the award!