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Zelinka System Titanium floating gun on eBay!

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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Thanks for the drawings and explanations. I think the last one could possibly be slightly different, though? I would think that the piston during loading moves all the way back to the inner lip of the barrel (a sort of back stop for the piston) and the barrel and piston then slides together - with the piston already at the very most rearward position - until the barrel locks in place?

Something like this?:
Zelinka end of loading
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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As for the non-return valve placed in the peg in the above drawings, I have seen a few variations on this.
E.g. I am thinking this one uses a sleeve seal like on the rear end of the pumping barrel of a Mirage. Also, notice that there's no power regulator on this particular gun:
8b 1
9b
A1 2
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

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Thanks for the drawings and explanations. I think the last one could possibly be slightly different, though? I would think that the piston during loading moves all the way back to the inner lip of the barrel (a sort of back stop for the piston) and the barrel and piston then slides together - with the piston already at the very most rearward position - until the barrel locks in place?

Something like this?:
View attachment 54804
Yes, I think that you are right. I was modifying the very first image that I had done of this recent set and dragged the piston forwards and opened the rear valve, but did not slide the inner barrel forwards to meet the piston. If you had to pump the gun to get the last of the air to transfer into the tank then that image would be correct as it assumes the inner barrel is already locked.
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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Although many Zelinka guns use that vanishing rear pin line release as it suits line wrapping on top of the gun body, which is a feature of many Russian and Ukrainian guns, I would prefer something on the side or under the gun. In that respect the Pelengas Zelinka is good as it borrows the side line release found on their other guns.
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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Jun 24, 2008
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Although many Zelinka guns use that vanishing rear pin line release as it suits line wrapping on top of the gun body, which is a feature of many Russian and Ukrainian guns, I would prefer something on the side or under the gun. In that respect the Pelengas Zelinka is good as it borrows the side line release found on their other guns.

Ah, they do? Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want it on the top. But given that the builders tend to use 1mm thread pitches it could be as simple as putting a 0.5mm shim in the kit. Or perhaps two 0.25mm shims so that you can orient the back cap as you want. As long as they haven't placed the o-ring groove too far back on the cap, then screwing it out by 0.5mm should be fine. As for the plug valve or the spring loaded valve, I guess that's alright, too.

I just went and looked at the Titanium Bazovsky you started this thread with, it actually has the line release on the side:). So, perhaps there has been a move away from putting the line on the top:
Zelinka Bazovsky Ti


I just found a pic of the Etelis rigged, side line release, too - well, at least half of the line...:
ZELINKA ETELIS SIDE LINE RELEASE


I think the grip is interchangeable. Perhaps for an extra skinny one for thick gloves.

They also make a cheaper version in Duralumin (a hardende alu alloy) without power regulator (also side line release):
ZELINKA ETELIS 02

BTW, this gun is only about USD 140 and with power regulator only about USD 30 more (though the latter was at a discounted 20% price). And I think the barrel is still stainless steel. I am not 100% sure it still floats when loaded as I think the Ti guns do in longer sizes. It seems it is possible to get into Zelinkas at OK prices - if the shop will ship to you.

Finally, from Zelinka Techno here's a slightly different take on the line release with a linked traverse line release, but it is still operated via the sliding rod which retracts into the reservoir as the shooting barrel moves forward (also, notice this is a one of the reletively few rear handle Zelinkas):

ZELINKA TECHNO 02

ZELINKA TECHNO 01


It comes in a power regulator version, too:
ZELINKA TECHNO 05
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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@Zahar
Do you think it would be possible to make a Zelinka system work with a vacuum cuff with the following parameters...:
Barrel ID/Piston diameter: 15mm
Shaft diameter: 8.5mm
Shaft length inside barrel: 1250mm
Pressure in gun: 30bar

I know the big piston is a bit strange as the efficiency of a Zelinka has a lot to do with using small barrels (e.g. 10x12mm barrel and 7-8mm shaft) but these are the parameters I have set and I am not interested in changing them for now. But I am very interested in hearing if you it could work out with a vacuum cuff in such a big and long barrel.
 
Zahar

Zahar

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I’m a gun repairman and most of all I’m faced with Zelinka repairs. than with other systems! For long sea rifles, the Zelinka system is not suitable for valve actuation speed! The barrel is an element of the valve and has a large mass with a long length, which slows down the process of firing and reduces the power of the gun! Additionally, when the piston 0-RING is worn, seawater enters the receiver! Depreciation of the 0-ring piston in Zelinka is greater than in other systems due to the installation piston injecting the set pressure in the receiver!
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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Jun 24, 2008
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I’m a gun repairman and most of all I’m faced with Zelinka repairs. than with other systems! For long sea rifles, the Zelinka system is not suitable for valve actuation speed! The barrel is an element of the valve and has a large mass with a long length, which slows down the process of firing and reduces the power of the gun! Additionally, when the piston 0-RING is worn, seawater enters the receiver! Depreciation of the 0-ring piston in Zelinka is greater than in other systems due to the installation piston injecting the set pressure in the receiver!

I understand the point about the barrel being heavy in longer guns and slowing down the initial part of the shot - it takes longer to move the heavy barrel, so the shooter might feel a delay in the shot which is not good. But perhaps it would be possible to eliminate that by installing a spring to help pull the barrel forward?

I see that the longest Zelinkas commonly sold are about 850-900mm.
I was thinking about making a 1300-1400mm Zelinka but only if I can make it work with a vacuum cuff - which might not be possible with a 15mm piston and 8.5-9mm shaft...?
 
Zahar

Zahar

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Jun 3, 2014
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@Zahar
Do you think it would be possible to make a Zelinka system work with a vacuum cuff with the following parameters...:
Barrel ID/Piston diameter: 15mm
Shaft diameter: 8.5mm
Shaft length inside barrel: 1250mm
Pressure in gun: 30bar

I know the big piston is a bit strange as the efficiency of a Zelinka has a lot to do with using small barrels (e.g. 10x12mm barrel and 7-8mm shaft) but these are the parameters I have set and I am not interested in changing them for now. But I am very interested in hearing if you it could work out with a vacuum cuff in such a big and long barrel.

Vacuum creation can only be calculated using integral equations and requires the necessary knowledge in this field and in higher mathematics! Unfortunately, I do not have enough education for this! But you can find out the results you need by putting a technical experiment at minimal cost, installing a valve on the barrel on one side and simulating the front assembly with a vacuum sleeve on the other side of the barrel! For this experiment, you do not need to make a receiver and an entire shotgun!
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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Jun 24, 2008
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Vacuum creation can only be calculated using integral equations and requires the necessary knowledge in this field and in higher mathematics! Unfortunately, I do not have enough education for this! But you can find out the results you need by putting a technical experiment at minimal cost, installing a valve on the barrel on one side and simulating the front assembly with a vacuum sleeve on the other side of the barrel! For this experiment, you do not need to make a receiver and an entire shotgun!
Yes, I thought about checking it with a practical "dummy" - a simple experiment. But it will have to wait until I am back home at my machines, parts and gear.
Thanks though, Zahar. It's good to have you here to answer the practical stuff about these interesting guns.

Perhaps you can explain some of the difference between the valve trigger with the o-ring that goes inside the barrel and then the valve that looks like it has a strong spring and has the o-ring at the back of the barrel - not inside.
Like this one, more or less:
ZELINKA VALVE ALTERNATIVE


What are the advantages to this design and do you know which manufacturers, brands or master builds use this version of the valve?
 
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Zahar

Zahar

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Jun 3, 2014
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I understand the point about the barrel being heavy in longer guns and slowing down the initial part of the shot - it takes longer to move the heavy barrel, so the shooter might feel a delay in the shot which is not good. But perhaps it would be possible to eliminate that by installing a spring to help pull the barrel forward?

I see that the longest Zelinkas commonly sold are about 850-900mm.
I was thinking about making a 1300-1400mm Zelinka but only if I can make it work with a vacuum cuff - which might not be possible with a 15mm piston and 8.5-9mm shaft...?

Zelinka works well as a freshwater rifle for hunting with low visibility from 1 to 4 m! With such visibility and small size of the gun up to 600 mm, the harpoon manages to hit the fish at the aiming point!

! For long guns and firing at a distance of more than 6m, the harpoon's approach speed and the speed of the descent of the gun are important, because the fish hears the sound of the operation of the gun mechanism! There are valve systems with the same advantages as Zelinka, but with a light valve! These systems include the Continent (ALFA, SOUTH, KATRAN) Yuri Stakhursky's System, and my Sudak System! Long trunks Zelinok technologically to facilitate the mass is pumped to a minimum wall thickness of 0.5 mm stainless steel, which leads to the possibility of deformation of the barrel with sand between the piston and the barrel! The minimum permissible barrel wall thickness is stainless steel 0.75mm!
 
Zahar

Zahar

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Jun 3, 2014
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Yes, I thought about checking it with a practical "dummy" - a simple experiment. But it will have to wait until I am back home at my machines, parts and gear.
Thanks though, Zahar. It's good to have you here to answer the practical stuff about these interesting guns.

Perhaps you can explain some of the difference between the valve trigger with the o-ring that goes inside the barrel and then the valve that looks like it has a strong spring and has the o-ring at the back of the barrel - not inside.
Like this one, more or less:
View attachment 54817

What are the advantages to this design and do you know which manufacturers, brands or master builds use this version of the valve?
The Zelink system exists in two forms! In this figure, a loaded barrel! The force on the barrel and whispered more than the loading force of the harpoon by 12 - 14%! The second system of Zelinka - it is the same from the author of this system - the unloaded trunk! The force on the trunk and whispers is minimal but sufficient to overcome the friction forces of all O-rings involved in the movement of the barrel and varies from 6 to 12 kg!
A1 2


Fixed Stem Valve
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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This twin valve Zelinka could be fitted with a rear air pump as shown. If you got rid of the rear line release then the control lever could be done as a power dial rather than the tab shown. The grub screw stops the rear pump attachment blowing off the end of the gun while pumping it up.
Zelinka rear pumping

Aquatech 500A handle rigged R

RPS 3 rigged

Top of the gun line wrapping was popularized by the RPS-3, a gun that was highly desired in the early days. Note that the pile of small rubber seals and plastic rings are about two years supply for an RPS-3 muzzle as the thickening in the spear tail (the line slide stop) breaks the seals which are made of the most terrible rubber and are plagued with heavy untrimmed flash due to the worn out molds used to make them. Surprising that no one was shot for making such crap which ruined the performance of the gun (although there were other problems all the rubber parts were rubbish).
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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Here the power regulator has been turned into a "power dial", similar to "Pirometer" (Seabear) and "Neptune" spearguns.
Zelinka rear pumping  power dial

Seabear MAK pages 6  7
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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The advantage of using a rear hand pump on a Zelinka is that you do not wear the piston "O" ring out as pumping the gun up using the barrel tube is equivalent to pushing hundreds of shots through the gun. However if you have the inner barrel locked you can undo the muzzle after pulling the spear out and then remove the piston from the gun. During this time the gun is charged to shoot pressure-wise, so don't pull the trigger! Otherwise you will have oil and air gush out of the gun and make a very big mess. You refit the piston with a new “O” ring, or use the spare piston as Zelinka guns usually come with a spare piston, screw the muzzle back on and then pull the trigger. You could put the spear in the gun and push the new piston back into the barrel, but remember the gun is already charged up and your life on Earth may be short if the pressure lets go while you are getting the spear started down the barrel which for a few seconds will not be under pressure.
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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I have been wondering about how to pump via the barrel. I think some guns ship with a special piston only used for pumping. Perhaps with a thread on them so that you can pull it back out on the back stroke of the pumping? Otherwise, I can’t figure out how the piston would come back to the front of the gun for the next stroke. I don’t think there’s enough pressure in the barrel to return the piston as the gun is basically in the normal loaded mode at the end of the pump stroke, right?
Also, wouldn’t the piston itself need to bleed air when you pull it to the front during pumping? Perhaps this is done with a small cut out in the o-ring channel of a special pumping piston?

I’ve been looking for pics to try to figure this out but haven’t found anything, yet.
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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The pumping piston screws onto the spear shaft after you remove the speartip, the spear serving as the pump rod. That is another quirky aspect of some Russian/Ukrainian guns, they use the spear shaft for the pump rod both in the RPS-3 and in the Aquatech guns and I am sure that there are others. The hand pump is just the outer tube and the attachment fitting to the gun and a pumping piston, but no pump rod. The Pirelli “Aries” is the same, the spear is also the pump rod, but in that case the same piston does both jobs, shooting the spear and pumping the gun up.

By unscrewing the muzzle to a pumping position the piston travels further to the front end of the gun and pulls air from the environment into the gun using the muzzle ports. The Inalex "Alpha C1" works in exactly the same way.

The Pelengas Zelinka comes with a spare piston, but that is just another piston, plus the gun has its own separate hand pump.
 
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Diving Gecko

Diving Gecko

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The pumping piston screws onto the spear shaft after you remove the speartip, the spear serving as the pump rod. That is another quirky aspect of some Russian/Ukrainian guns, they use the spear shaft for the pump rod both in the RPS-3 and in the Aquatech guns and I am sure that there are others. The hand pump is just the outer tube and the attachment fitting to the gun and a pumping piston, but no pump rod. The Pirelli “Aries” is the same, the spear is also the pump rod, but in that case the same piston does both jobs, shooting the spear and pumping the gun up.

By unscrewing the muzzle to a pumping position the piston travels further to the front end of the gun and pulls air from the environment into the gun using the muzzle ports. The Inalex "Alpha C1" works in exactly the same way.

The Pelengas Zelinka comes with a spare piston, but that is just another piston, plus the gun has its own separate hand pump.

Aha, I got it now and I think I may have seen a pic with a piston in a very "strange" position all the way into the front of the nozzle. So, now I am guessing that one way to do it, is to unscrew the muzzle, take the shock absorber out and then screw the muzzle back in.
 
popgun pete

popgun pete

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Aha, I got it now and I think I may have seen a pic with a piston in a very "strange" position all the way into the front of the nozzle. So, now I am guessing that one way to do it, is to unscrew the muzzle, take the shock absorber out and then screw the muzzle back in.
Well some guns don't have a shock absorber, they use a hydraulic damper and the end of the muzzle serves as a mini-pump, so there is nothing in the muzzle to remove. With so many variations it is hard to generalize as many makers sought to make their guns that little bit different. For example a Doroganich gun has no shock absorber, being a hydraulic damper, while a "Neptune" from Tula uses both, hydraulic and a rubber absorbing sleeve in the muzzle, but neither of those are Zelinka guns.
 
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