200m deep down

[Panos Lianos]

Dear friends, Frank,

What I’m about to say, does NOT make Patrick’s achievement a lesser one. What he has done is remarkable and we should all congratulate him.

I simply mentioned that in performances where there are judges present, the organizer and the athlete must do a few things. Some of them are:

Organize an anti-doping test.
Make sure that the athlete does not inhale oxygen (or O2 enriched mixtures).
Make sure that the athlete is in no way aided during his performance.
Follow a surfacing protocol.
Show complete and uninterrupted video a few minutes before and a few minutes after the performance is completed + bottom video 1 minute before the athlete arrives at depth.
The videotapes should be opened and signed by the judges.
Cameras should be sealed and signed by the judges.
The list goes on…

There are also other procedures that ensure the athlete’s safety etc.

The difference with performances done in the past, is that in the past, as long as the athlete survived, they declared a record. No matter if the poor athlete had a black out or not, as long as he would “recover” and at some time start breathing again, it was a record.

Let me again say that what I’m saying does not make what Patrick has done less of a fantastic performance.

All I’m simply saying is that in order to compare performances, they should be done under the same procedures. I’m sure you understand this Frank. Is it the same to do static with your buddy in your favorite pool and in a competition? No, it is not. Is it the same to have an official “top” time and not to have one? No, it is not.

It is the pressure and the existence of these “procedures” that makes recognized performances, exactly what they are: Recognized.

And I still don’t understand why Patrick didn’t ask for judges, since nothing is written in the rules that the weight of the sled is in any way limited….

Anyway, enough said. Let’s not turn this in to something that distracts us from what Patrick has done. Even without judges and official recognition.

Well done Patrick, may you go even deeper.

Panos Lianos
Athens, Greece

 

[ApneaBlue]

Ok....wait....He did it already? Man, i godda get out of the pool more often.

Congrats Patrick!

 

[bevan dewar]

Give the man his dues, 200m is not any deeper with an AIDA judge sitting topside.

He has proved a point, that it can be done, and that he can do it.
But although there were many who doubted it would be him, I dont know of anyone holding the theory that 200 was impossible? Infact I suspect many freedivers have wondered why it wasnt done earlier, given that most seem to think that with flooded sinuses there is no limit to equalizing, that a 3:30 sedentary dive is not challenging O2 stores, and that DCS and squeeze are only factors we can guess at.


Reading his website I got the feeling that some might be led to believe that deep diving is somehow more inherently enjoyable than shallow diving, that it is of a whole nother order, ineffable and uninteligable to us mere mortals. This makes for good screenplays and sells magazines nodoubt.
Not to say that setting goals and overcomming challanges is not meaningfull and fullfilling, just to say that Patrick does not have privileged access to experiences that cant be had by a beginner doing his first 20m dive. Freediving does not suddenly become a spiritual experience as you reach 50, 100 or 200m.


Its a pitty his finest hour seems marred by anger he feels toward the freediving community. I'm sure he has met with some ignorance. I would just hope he remembers the words of a wise man who once councelled 'forgive them for they know not what they do', for the peace he experienced down there unfortunately seems to elude him on the surface.



b.

 

[SanSan]

I have to say I agree with Panos. If U wish to compare a thing u have to do it in a controled environment where certain things are unchanged (the same).

U can say that Patrick is the deepest man for sure. This is for sure and I think this is enough. But u can't compare his -200 to lets say loics -171. At best u could compare it to that -192 from Murat of whom ever. In life there are allways some rules u have to follow and I think its ok that way.

Im sure Patrick doesnt want anything else than being the deepest man and the first that went past -200. Im sure there will be some trustworthy people there on 5th of July to confirm his dive and I also think he'll do some doping tests. And he desn't need any organisation to do it. I think he's just being rebelish and trying to make a point. And think its a good one looking at what is hapening in some organisations.

Go on Patrick.

 

[Kars]

Returning to the poll question maybe it's nice to start a new one :

How deep will Patrick go on the 5th of July 2005?

A - less than 200m
B - 200m
C - 201 - 210m
D - 211 - 220m
E - 221 - 230m
F - 231 - 240m
G - 241 - 249m
H - 250m or more!


I expect a different outcome than the original pole reflects :ko


Love Peace and water!

Kars.

 

[ADR]

I don't understand why some people still said that his achievement is not comparable with any other performances......QUOTE]

Yep I see your point as it could also be argued that even AIDA records can not be compared due to changing rules over the years, particularly given the latest changes.

It is one thing to differentiate between comp and non comp performances, official and non-official performances but to go the next step and doubt he did it is way over the line and rather disrespectful. He had a cast of thousands there with video, divers, watches and everything else less the kitchen sink, but even if he didn't, if he said he did 200m I have no reason to doubt it and skepticism is a pretty poor case for disbelief

Congrats again Patrick and good luck on the remaining dives.

 

[Patfan]

Why cant you just accept that he has done it.. he came back safely, and he also has written a strong message in his speech that has nothing to do with freediving...

read it... and see if you understand it.

Thank you my friend for those wise words there's alot of player hating mixed in with alot of love in this forum. I feel alot of people missed the real essence of Pat's message. I decided yesterday that I will nolonger be contrevertial and just enjoy the wave of thought that Patrick has created with his dive....

and obviously when i can.... say " Congrats to the Man Pat ...hip hip Hoooorrrayyyy" may he enjoy the fruits of his labour as much as the ride down to the unknown where not many will be for a little while to come... rofl

 

[Patfan]

And it just keeps getting better. Some of you guys are seriously cool, I take my hat of to you... and all the others like you on this forum that appreciate the feat for JUUST what it is.... Extraordinary... The man has just taken us down the rabbit hole...

@neoprenlove,

i don't believe that there are many freedivers out there who, by nature, are lying, deceiving bastards. i don't believe patrick is.

i'm surprised by the amount of critisiscm he receives simply because there were no judges. and who cares what the dude wrote at a time when he was pissed off about soemthing? whatever one thinks about his attitude, but does that imply that he is not credible?

chill out, give the man a break, and the benefit of the doubt.

...and maybe some congratulations and a slap on the back because seemingly he shits himself a lot less than other people (me included)

respect!

roland

 

[pehtran]

Why does HE read the forums? Why does HE care what others think or say? He reads, he cares, because he wishes for his results to be recognized, respected. It is obviously not just for himself. It is for us - it is a show! So it is stupid not to invite the judges and thus find peace. (or dont invite judges and accept the consequences and learn to live with them). The achivement itself is untarnished but HIS letter... come on! so much anger. Why does HE care what we think. HE is so much less respected because of that - since HE obviously did not find peace down there. HE instead brought more anger from the deep. I am so delighted by what HE did but so surprised by HIS attitude. Well, congratulations anyway... I for one do not doubt but... the goal is not the result, the goal is peace of mind.

 

[Patfan]

instead brought more anger from the deep.... I for one do not doubt but... the goal is not the result, the goal is peace of mind.

Wise words... but you're focusing on a small part of the letter I'm not sure we're reading the same letter ... anger is far from the predominant idea... I think he wanted to make some things clear once & for all and won't be giving certain idiots anyfurther importance...

Peace of mind though definetly is the key word in free diving

 

[Patfan]

:wave I have to admit I got caaried away in this forum discussion things and i had to run into a link of deeper blue to remind me of what's actually Important...

http://forums.deeperblue.net/archive/index.php/t-37261.html

The only reason I started coming here was because of the fact I skimmed the surface of freediving. I have to admit I hate swimming I can't even hold my breath for more than a couple of minutes. ( but I'm working on it)! What grabbed my interest was the conversation I had with a freediver....who calmly explained, with a glitter in his eye that only belongs to the passionate,why free diving holds such a major part in his life.

He explained that when diving, your purpose is not a journey of distance but a journey within , a journey within that confronts you with yourself and your limits, a journey that can only be started and acheived if completely calm, relaxed and focused. and when you reach that plain of serenity your body stops existing and it is you, your mind and the water. An incomparable feeling of freedom and peace... an Ultimate high where nothing matters and you are at one with... everything.

the spirit of what you do is such that you transcend to higher plane....

the rest doesn't matter .... That's why I'm shocked you guys are so busy with details on the surface... with federations and Judges and this and that ... who cares be happy that one of you has gotten to a place you now know is attainable and you can reach sooner or later... Patrick's dive isn't about Patrick it's about what you all love doing, travelling within and seeing where your minds can take your bodies...whether at 50, 100 or more That's what I think he's trying to make clear with no Judges or federations.

I will not even try and speak in his name cause only he knows exactly what he's doing and why! I, we can only interpret what he's trying to tell us from what he says... But hell, with all the buts and uhms and God knows what else, you guys aren't looking that spiritual anymore. The details of measuring, tapes and laaadida will be dealt with in due time wait till he's done. Till then, send out positive vibes when in the water.... You're all part of the same family where each has his 200 to reach.

Mine is holding 3:00 min on a breath. Pathetic for some but enriching for me :t

 

[jome]

I can understand Patricks frustrations for the most part (and some I cannot even imagine since I haven't been through 6 years of preparation), but the fact that escapes my understanding is why he decided to direct it to the whole freediving community. I don't know if that's what he intended, but that's how it's being interpretet.

I'm sure that most of the community has absolutely nothing against him or his achievements other than natural curiosity and genuine exitement. But he's message seems like a huge "holier than thou" putdown on all freedivers who choose to discuss their sport "on the net" (which I think can be a wonderful media despite some shortcomings).

Perhaps it was just words hastily written in a fit of exitement or something, but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of most divers. Even some of those who never had a doubt and looked up to him.

He seems to take great care to not imply anyone or any organization directly, which on the other hand I respect. But I'm not sure an "all inclusive" target is any better.

Just my thoughts on the letter. Of course it does not in anyway make his dive a lesser achievement. It's a great achievement and he deserves his respect...I just find it frustrating when people get wound up and form "sides", when there should just be one group of people who enjoy the same thing...But that's humans for ya...

 

[Alun]

Patrick has taken three days off according to his website, which means he is diving tomorrow (Thur). there must surely be a good chance he will go beyond 200m! i hope we'll get another update tomorrow...

 

[efattah]

who cares be happy that one of you has gotten to a place you now know is attainable and you can reach sooner or later... Patrick's dive isn't about Patrick

I think you have misunderstood Patrick's website. Here I quote from his own website:

"I have developed this gift since the age of twelve"

" his first words to his freediving crew, composed by Isabelle and Eduard, were: 'there is only one man who can do that... remember this day!' "

"a complex program, which prepared my body and nervous system to support the dive and adapt to such a fast progression! If you ignore that fact, I am afraid, the freediving world will face other casualties in the near future."

"I had announced to the press that I would explain my water equalization technique and my training program upon record. Now I do not see the point anymore."


So Patrick is telling us:

- He has a special gift which others don't possess
- He says there is only one man in the world who can do what he can
- He says that to survive this dive requires a complex training program that he developed, and if you don't use his method, you will suffer great injury or die if you attempt the dive he did
- He also says he will NEVER reveal this program or his techniques to the public

So, clearly from these comments, the 200m dive is about PATRICK, not about the rest of freedivers, like Patfan says. It sounds from his comments that Patrick would rather have other people die while attempting to break his record, since he says that you must use his system (or else you will die), and he won't share his system...

 

[Alun]

"I have developed this gift since the age of twelve"
... i think he is referring to the general sporting prowess he developed from an early age, and his dedication to achieve his goals.

"a complex program, which prepared my body and nervous system to support the dive and adapt to such a fast progression! If you ignore that fact, I am afraid, the freediving world will face other casualties in the near future."
... i read this to mean: "this is not an easy thing to do. anyone who wants to achieve a similar performance must be equally well prepared." good advice!

"It sounds from his comments that Patrick would rather have other people die while attempting to break his record, since he says that you must use his system (or else you will die), and he won't share his system..."
... i think you've misinterpreted his words.

 

[Erik]

Looks like an old article from 2004. Also states that Loic is the 170 metre record holder :head
Moral: don't believe everything you read
By the way, aliens beamed up Elvis and blew up the Twin Towers
Peace,
Erik Y.

 

[samdive]

as far as I know the IFB disappeared about two weeks after it was born, around about the same time as Howard agreed to have AIDA judges in Cyprus 2004 (IFB was going to judge Cyprus at one point before they realised people DID actually care about ranking) and shortly before www.freediver.co.uk went bang...

 

[derelictp]

Sam,

Do you know why freediver "went bang"?

What are the guys doing today?

By the way: Good luck with the work with education!

 

[samdive]

wouldn't like to comment on here Peter but if you knew how things were going before, I am sure you can guess

 

[derelictp]

Sam,

No, unfortunately (or opposite ) I don't know anything about this...