Interesting. I've found swimming with them shortens the dive quite a bit, and maneuvering the camera while swimming with a mono fin is a bit of a challenge. Sometimes it is the best way to get a good picture, but it's not my favorite. I never use a strobe. I like the feeling of the natural colors at depth - that said, around here I am seldom taking pictures much deeper than 50 feet. It's true that when you are stationary you really have to watch how you move. I had a pair of small drums spook once because I moved my eyes! (the big ones come back and flare their gill plates to prove how badass they are)
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2014 lunocet
- Thread starter monkeyhatfork
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Thread Status: Hello
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Interesting. I've found swimming with them shortens the dive quite a bit, and maneuvering the camera while swimming with a mono fin is a bit of a challenge. Sometimes it is the best way to get a good picture, but it's not my favorite. I never use a strobe. I like the feeling of the natural colors at depth - that said, around here I am seldom taking pictures much deeper than 50 feet. It's true that when you are stationary you really have to watch how you move. I had a pair of small drums spook once because I moved my eyes! (the big ones come back and flare their gill plates to prove how badass they are)
You are completely right. You definitely have a decreased dive time and the technique certainly works better on scuba, but I've had a lot of success with it while freediving. Usually I have to do perhaps 3-5 rapid dives with a particular fish (probably just 2-3 or less for you), before they're comfortable with me moving around near them. Once they are used to you though, you can then leisurely come and go and move about them in whatever fashion you choose without having them get so twitchy and apt to run off on you (active or aspetto). Sometimes they'll even become more curious and be more likely to swim up to me and hang around than when I just sit still the entire time. Of course, now that I've said this, watch me never get it to work again ;-)
I think you are on to something about the natural colors at depth especially in freshwater. Our fish don't have a whole lot of color to begin with and I can easily see where the wonderful shades of blue and green would be a more appealing appearance than the more drab colors that may otherwise show up. Now I want to experiment with that this summer. . .one more thing to mess around with
Very funny about the drums! That's absolutely amazing how skittish they are and in tune to even your eye movement! I bet a pic of the large ones flaring their gills would make a pretty cool picture! Have you snapped on of those yet?
In all reality, I can't imagine the difficulty in U/W photography while wearing a monofin. I rely heavily on minor fin movements with my bi-fins when taking pics and I bet using a mono increases the difficulty by about 3 fold! You've got me really thinking about lots of fun stuff to experiment with this summer. . . .I just hope I have time for it all
To tickle their bellies, you have to get close.
Getting back to the maneuverability thing. I looked for a long time for a fin that would combine the flexibility of bifins with the efficiency and power of a mono. The Dol-fin did the trick and I'm extremely curious how the Lunacet will compare. For spearfishing and general reef crawling, I always felt "anchored" with a traditional mono in the period between "not moving" and "moving," fundamentally unpleasant for the kind of diving I do. The fine adjustments of trim and direction that are natural to bifins were just plain absent from traditional monos(at least for me). Spearfishing with them, especially with a sling, was near impossible. The Dol-fin isn't as maneuverable as bifins, but its pretty close, close enough to be worth learning how to move with it. I'm still not as good spearfishing with a Dol-fin as with bifins, but its coming nicely.
Getting back to the maneuverability thing. I looked for a long time for a fin that would combine the flexibility of bifins with the efficiency and power of a mono. The Dol-fin did the trick and I'm extremely curious how the Lunacet will compare. For spearfishing and general reef crawling, I always felt "anchored" with a traditional mono in the period between "not moving" and "moving," fundamentally unpleasant for the kind of diving I do. The fine adjustments of trim and direction that are natural to bifins were just plain absent from traditional monos(at least for me). Spearfishing with them, especially with a sling, was near impossible. The Dol-fin isn't as maneuverable as bifins, but its pretty close, close enough to be worth learning how to move with it. I'm still not as good spearfishing with a Dol-fin as with bifins, but its coming nicely.
I have found that the Lunocet Pro is much more maneuverable than my Glide fin. On some laps, just for fun or showing off, I will go face down part of the lap, turn sideways for a while, face up, and then do whichever turn gets me to the next orientation. Some laps I will do face up underwater, and only hit the surface twice to breathe in briefly. The turns at the end of the pool are way easier also. The fin doesn't get glued to the wall and it's possible to push off, it's easier to turn laterally, roll pitch or yaw. The only turn that is easy with a glide is a full flip turn as done in finswimming-and that is only easy because the fin leaves the water for some of the turn. I can do a variety of turns with the Lunocet; it doesn't seem to care which way I decide to do it-they're all easier for me. Strangely, it seems just as stable as a glide in a straight line. It may be that my technique has improved enough to permit this. I plan on trying to use it for spearfishing, but that may take more practice as I'm used to bifins for spearing.
Thanks, Marginatus! I had just finished an evening swim and noticed the way the sun reflected off the water and the fin. I decided it was worth capturing and straightened up the mask, neck weight and cap. It was a very peaceful and zen-like swim capped off with this view. I took a moment to contemplate it after getting the picture. Perfect ending to what had been a hectic and stressful day! Freediving and finswimming have gotten me through much stress and made me healthier as a result. Truly blessed to have found this sport!
Maneuverability is probably my biggest sticking point. I'm really addicted to the versatility of my bi fins, but would still like to get a mono. From everything I've read, it sounds like I would really be both thrilled and yet moderately irritated with one. I'm really hoping that something like the Lunocet Pro will straddle both worlds better allowing for a high degree of maneuverability (relative to standard monos) coupled with greater finning efficiency and/or speed (relative to bi fins) and a good price point to boot.
Watching and waiting for this thread to unfold with reviews has been quite an exercise in patience ;-P.
Watching and waiting for this thread to unfold with reviews has been quite an exercise in patience ;-P.
Triton!
You are so near the leading edge of the Lunocet Pro introduction that you may have to get one to find a good maneuverability answer then tell the rest of us!
It seems Neurodoc and Apneaddict may still be the only two both swimming and writing Pro info...... And Ted of course..... With Noa close behind with one on the way.
Reading your queries I swam less straight and more geometrically this morning using my classic 2014 Lunocet. It starts well from a dead stop. It responds well to large or small strokes. It comfortably goes slow or fast. Curving gently arms extended with speed works fine either face down or rolling a shoulder down and banking the turn. Have to keep stroking though. Gliding while turning = stopping.
Sharper turns no problem at all.... Jumping off the pool walls that is. Probably not a lot of those where the best fish are though. I found that doing squares or zig zags without touching something solid kind of boiled down to changing directions with my hands which was nearly a stop then swimming in the new direction.
I'm thinking the ease of changing direction while nearly stopped using just your feet to change the direction may be where the bifins really help. Still my biffins almost never get wet since the Lunocets came along.... More fun... More cool. But I'm not yet fishing or photo fishing.... Although I did loosely arrange my first trip this morning!
Maybe that's the best answer I can offer... Photo of my two sets of flukes.
You are so near the leading edge of the Lunocet Pro introduction that you may have to get one to find a good maneuverability answer then tell the rest of us!
It seems Neurodoc and Apneaddict may still be the only two both swimming and writing Pro info...... And Ted of course..... With Noa close behind with one on the way.
Reading your queries I swam less straight and more geometrically this morning using my classic 2014 Lunocet. It starts well from a dead stop. It responds well to large or small strokes. It comfortably goes slow or fast. Curving gently arms extended with speed works fine either face down or rolling a shoulder down and banking the turn. Have to keep stroking though. Gliding while turning = stopping.
Sharper turns no problem at all.... Jumping off the pool walls that is. Probably not a lot of those where the best fish are though. I found that doing squares or zig zags without touching something solid kind of boiled down to changing directions with my hands which was nearly a stop then swimming in the new direction.
I'm thinking the ease of changing direction while nearly stopped using just your feet to change the direction may be where the bifins really help. Still my biffins almost never get wet since the Lunocets came along.... More fun... More cool. But I'm not yet fishing or photo fishing.... Although I did loosely arrange my first trip this morning!
Maybe that's the best answer I can offer... Photo of my two sets of flukes.
As a byproduct of playing with foil based fins, I've greatly expanded the range of my hyperfin, maneuver wise. Connor mentions the load-up issue - and I used to experience this too. But I can now start very subtly - with ankles only - or with a pulse from the solar plexus that requires no back-stroke load up. No doubt the foil fins have a more obvious low gear - but I've been very surprised what my star fin will do. The biggest advantage I've found with the dol-fin, maneuver-wise - is not with swimming or changing direction - both of which are more whole body dependent, but with rotating and so forth while on the bottom tracking fish. I mention this because I think the Lunocet will exhibit similar advantages - based on my previous testing of two models.
I know you guys are excited about the lunocet - and a new fav toy tends to make the old ones fade from attention while the new one benefits from your learning curve. In my testing, when I discover something new, I go back and see if I can do it with the other one. I'm not saying everybody should do that, I'm pretty hard-core about this stuff - to the point where I drive myself nuts.
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As always, you zero in on the important issue. Rotation, tracking a fish while pointing a sling is critical to sling shooting, and where I occasionally run into issues with the Dolfin. There is a learning process, I'm much better , but not where I want to be.
I've gotten where a regular mono fin is not an impediment for this - but it does tend to stir up the bottom more than the Dol-fin. However, I usually have a hand free and wear Darkfin Gloves - no such luxury with a sling.
Thank you very much Chipswim for the wonderful information! Your comments are extremely helpful and addressed some of my bigger concerns. While I'm not a spearo, I would say that my diving style is more akin to that style of diving than pure freediving. Going for depth or dynamic are fun for training, but I don't care about depth or distance for it's own sake. . . I just like to explore , photograph, etc. and anything that enhances my ability to do that is really what I'm looking for. Consequently, I do a lot of stopping and starting while diving. Knowing that the fin is quite responsive from a standstill is really good news as I've heard that sometimes a problem with foil/fluke style fins is that they require a couple of strokes to get moving and are more ideally suited to constant dynamics than stop and start stuff. Thanks again for the very helpful info!
As a side note, if I had any experience with a mono, I probably would just get the Lunocet Pro and write a review for everyone. Unfortunately, without any background or anything to compare it with, my review would be rather worthless. The best I could do would be to compare them to bi-fins. . . Which, perhaps may be a valid review for others that are in my boat and juggling the bi-fin/monofin dilemma. I just don't think I'm enough of a fin aficionado to write a decent enough review though.
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Triton,
Sounds like you are very comfortable in and under the water. If you occasionally dolphin kick your biffins you know or are learning all you need to slip on any monofin and swim away with a big smile on your face! Two strokes later you have more monofin experience than 99% of swimmers. Put on a fin add water and you are an instant expert! Bet we'd all get a kick out of your thoughts an hour later!
As for a genuine review there is a reason AA has an early Pro to analyze. I'm sure our future fins are already benefiting from his observations and brain storming sessions with Ted. His review will likely be almost as enlightening as actually donning a Lunocet and swimming it..... Hopefully it will allow a few more readers to arrive at their decisions. (~~~insert subliminal publishing soon message here!~~~)
Fondue is a gifted swimming motion explainer. His ankle flicking descriptions are perfect for unobtrusive observation. Think of fish casually cruising even though their bodies are nearly still.
His spine wave thing will get swimmers imaging our strokes better then moving more gracefully and efficiently even if some of us aren't particularly graceful or efficient by nature!
Sounds like you are very comfortable in and under the water. If you occasionally dolphin kick your biffins you know or are learning all you need to slip on any monofin and swim away with a big smile on your face! Two strokes later you have more monofin experience than 99% of swimmers. Put on a fin add water and you are an instant expert! Bet we'd all get a kick out of your thoughts an hour later!
As for a genuine review there is a reason AA has an early Pro to analyze. I'm sure our future fins are already benefiting from his observations and brain storming sessions with Ted. His review will likely be almost as enlightening as actually donning a Lunocet and swimming it..... Hopefully it will allow a few more readers to arrive at their decisions. (~~~insert subliminal publishing soon message here!~~~)
Fondue is a gifted swimming motion explainer. His ankle flicking descriptions are perfect for unobtrusive observation. Think of fish casually cruising even though their bodies are nearly still.
His spine wave thing will get swimmers imaging our strokes better then moving more gracefully and efficiently even if some of us aren't particularly graceful or efficient by nature!
The fish around here, particularly the larger ones, do a lot of gliding when they are casually checking things out. I try to copy that and emulate the easy movement they use to generate the glide - which is also, often, a function of glide ratio as then slowly descend.
Yes, I am definitely comfortable in the water. I luckily grew up on a lake and until college probably spent somewhere around 3-4 hours 4-6 days a week every summer in the water snorkeling and diving. The caveat though is that despite my copious amount of time in freshwater, I've never gotten comfortable with low/poor visibility. Some sort of irrational fear I suppose, but it seriously gets under my skin. For example, I have a very difficult time diving when I can't see the bottom. I have no problem following a drop-off down into the depths, but to wander out past the drop-off and then descend gives me the creeps for some inexplicable reason. But I digress. . ..
When using my bifins, I've found more recently that I probably dolphin kick around 80%+ of the time. About the only time I don't are on my initial descent and while maneuvering to see stuff (I change direction a lot). However, I've never given my technique much thought up until this year nor have I ever had anyone knowledgeable critique it. I'm sure it leaves much to be desired, but at least the general basics are there. I'm honestly becoming half-tempted to just order the fin and see what happens.
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Tic toc, and time ticks away... Yeah, still in stand by mode.
"Funny" thing is that USPS does not recognize my tracking number, been trying it several times a day, for now a week. Bit frustrating. And on my side, let's say that the Greek post likes to "take their time" and not rush things. So all in all, patience is the name of the game : )
By the time I get the Pro, I'll be an uber zen master...
"Funny" thing is that USPS does not recognize my tracking number, been trying it several times a day, for now a week. Bit frustrating. And on my side, let's say that the Greek post likes to "take their time" and not rush things. So all in all, patience is the name of the game : )
By the time I get the Pro, I'll be an uber zen master...
don't want to give bad news or anything but that usually means the number was secured (reserved for a shipping) but no scan was made yet (didn't get to USPS hands yet)...
Knowing that yours was on the way was somewhat reassuring that the waiting was almost over.
Hope I'm wrong... have you tried refreshing the page by furiously clinking the icon?
List of sensible fears:
1. Deep dark opaque water.
2. USPS not recognizing your Pro tracking number to Greece!
I agree Triton. Great time to get one coming. Totally enjoyed my Classic Lunocet again this morning. Early word is that the Pro is even better. That has to be very very nice! Really will enjoy reading what you think of yours!
1. Deep dark opaque water.
2. USPS not recognizing your Pro tracking number to Greece!
I agree Triton. Great time to get one coming. Totally enjoyed my Classic Lunocet again this morning. Early word is that the Pro is even better. That has to be very very nice! Really will enjoy reading what you think of yours!
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