-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 47,943+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 531,990+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,455+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
2014 lunocet
- Thread starter monkeyhatfork
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
- Status
Thank you Ted for the feedback about delay and insight into the production. This makes that waiting for the Lunocet Pro not too bad.
Hmmmmmm......... I've wondered the same questions. I'm guessing the difference between a market of hundreds and thousands is being determined right here right now!
I'm sure Ted's time is heavily allocated to getting fins out the door right now so I'll contemplate with you till he answers you directly or more likely real sales answer your questions more accurately.
I did get one of those treasured calls from Ted Friday and I can assure all of us that he is beside himself excited and way way into the project! His ideas have continued to race ahead and the results are going into the boxes to be shipped.
The fortune in shop equipment now turned toward Lunocets Ted achieved leading the bicycle world up another level into ultra high end bicycle components especially ultra light bicycle brakes. So he has proven he can excel in a market that was already highly developed and competitive when he arrived.
I'm thinking with the intro of the Pro the Lunocet rocket has to clear the launch pad!
If the new fin is so good that it wins the incredible Deeper Blue crowd that might be a market of hundreds. If it is so doable, comfortable, durable, affordable, and cool that it attracts many new swimmers to the monofinning sports and recreational swimmers like it too then that's a market of thousands.....?.....?....!...?
Just contemplating... What do you think?
I'm guessing some of the tooling was acquired during the years for other projects too and will serve for future projects... only the mould should be Lunocet specific...
No SANE person would spend a dozen years of R&D with production and sales figures having the owner earn less than 1/10 of the min wage and believe it to be sustainable.
No SANE person would spend over a million dollars in capital equipment, specifically to cater to the existing monofin market.
Now obviously in this case, our sport is benefiting from the fact that a company with those assets is ready, willing and able to re-tool or re-allocate productive assets to meet our needs, not to mention that the owner of those assets has been infected with the monofin bug as well!
Thank goodness people like lightweight bike components! It appears to be funding this next chapter in human powered propulsion!
Depending on your definition... There are only 200-500 active "decent" competitive monofin freedivers... So 100% market saturation (always unlikely) won't likely recoup time / labour spent.
The market obviously has to expand / include more people.
Time will tell if Ted is successful with this venture. The Lunocet Pro will be a key piece to the answer / determination.
I for one am pulling for him (and everyone else in the same boat). This amount of R&D, capital expense and effort / energy spent to further his goals is something that we benefit from.
Our sport isn't blessed with big $$$ corporate sponsors, lucrative TV rights or cushy merchandising deals.
ANYONE investing in it (time or $$$) to advance the cause, sport, technology, or positive publicity, should be embraced.
They too likely got started with this breath-hold stuff as a labour of love. It sure as heck wasn't the lure of big dollars or groupies.... (although Kurt Chambers photos have me reconsidering my previous statement).
No SANE person would spend over a million dollars in capital equipment, specifically to cater to the existing monofin market.
Now obviously in this case, our sport is benefiting from the fact that a company with those assets is ready, willing and able to re-tool or re-allocate productive assets to meet our needs, not to mention that the owner of those assets has been infected with the monofin bug as well!
Thank goodness people like lightweight bike components! It appears to be funding this next chapter in human powered propulsion!
Depending on your definition... There are only 200-500 active "decent" competitive monofin freedivers... So 100% market saturation (always unlikely) won't likely recoup time / labour spent.
The market obviously has to expand / include more people.
Time will tell if Ted is successful with this venture. The Lunocet Pro will be a key piece to the answer / determination.
I for one am pulling for him (and everyone else in the same boat). This amount of R&D, capital expense and effort / energy spent to further his goals is something that we benefit from.
Our sport isn't blessed with big $$$ corporate sponsors, lucrative TV rights or cushy merchandising deals.
ANYONE investing in it (time or $$$) to advance the cause, sport, technology, or positive publicity, should be embraced.
They too likely got started with this breath-hold stuff as a labour of love. It sure as heck wasn't the lure of big dollars or groupies.... (although Kurt Chambers photos have me reconsidering my previous statement).
I believe that one aspect of a "new market" for monofinning or finswimming could center around the core strength workout. Spinal rehabilitation, of low back injuries for example, works well with a dolphin kick stroke in the water. My back is so much stronger and flexible than it ever was prior to getting into monofins! I can honestly say at 51 that my back feels better than it did when I was 18. I have actual ab muscles, visible, discernible, for the first time in my entire life. I owe this to monofins, and I think that many other people could catch onto this for fun/fitness/rehab. My initial steps into the sport involved ordering a monofin from eastern Europe, not knowing if it would fit or work for me-no adjustment possible except thicker booties. Now there are fins available that are adjustable, use shoes that are available in many sizes, modular designs that are more durable and portable...it's already come a long way since I got started. Now, if there were swimming leagues/competitions for finswimming and not only freediving, in the US? With foil fins being legal? That could be a huge new market to0. So I think that Ted is doing a great job opening up/developing product. We're just lucky to be the tip of the spear in that market!
Hmmmmmm....... I think the answer to your questions are being determined right here right now! The Pro intro leading into summer is gigantic!!!!!!!!..... Or its not¡¡¡
Talked to a guy who is VERY optimistic!!!!!
I enjoyed one of those treasured phone calls from Ted Friday. I can assure all of us that he is beside himself excited and way way into the Pro production project. Inspirations continue to find their way into the boxes we'll receive soon.
The difference between hundreds and thousands has to be in winning new swimmers to the monofinning community. The Pro has to be a new level of doable, durable, portable, powerful, glidable, affordable, futuristic, comfortable, logical, adaptable, fun, back healthy, ab ripping, and marketable to achieve thousands.
Oh yes! And adorable!! I notice some mermaids are doubted but not THESE mermaids! They appear to be swimming not just modeling those Lunocet Pros like champions the first time wearing them. That can't hurt the numbers....
Last edited:
Right there with you on the back health Neurodoc! Glad you pointed it out. Much more fun to visit my chiropractor to show off and receive a tune up than to crawl in and hobble out which I've done many times.
NOT HAVING ACUTE BACK ISSUES CAN pay for a Lunocet in a hurry!
NOT HAVING ACUTE BACK ISSUES CAN pay for a Lunocet in a hurry!
I've been following this thread for a while and I thought I'd chime in with my experience of the 2014 Lunocet. I ordered it at the end of November and received it 2 months later. I tried it out in the pool during an advanced training session for our freediving group here in Montreal. About five others in the group tried out the Lunocet and while all were impressed with the comfort of the triathlon shoes (from Garneau with Boa system fasteners) compared to monofin footpockets, the general consensus was that one could go further with a hyperfin. Most of us felt that while it was not advantageous for competitive freediving, it would be great in recreational use. You can break it down and travel with it, which eliminates the headaches of traveling with a traditional monofin. I also imagine that in open water the experience of the 2014 Lunocet would be quite different. Now I am looking forward to trying out the Lunocet Pro.
To tell you a bit about us, 8 out of the 12 people training in our advanced apnea training sessions uses a monofin - most have had theirs made in Russia - and about half of us are competitive and a few have gone to international competitions. Our goals might seem modest to some of you reading this, as all of us can go 75 metres with long fins, and a few are in the 100 metre and more range. We also hold an annual 3 day monofin stage with Mike Maric, an Italian freediver who is one of the world's foremost monofin instructors and trainers. He just wrapped up another stage for us last weekend, and it was incredible. I bought the Lunocet for myself but also for our entire group, as we were all curious. I'm sure that with a bit more practice I might have figured out how to maximize the efficiency of this fin, but I returned it after two full sessions in the pool so as not to wear it out or damage it. I returned it in exchange for the Lunocet Pro, hoping that the larger flukes would make it more suitable for competitive freediving.
There were shortcomings, but there were definitely some good things about it. Aside from the comfort of a triathlon shoe, I found that there was a great advantage in the turn-and-push off the wall (not sure how else to translate the word "virage" that we use here) when doing 50 or 75 metre laps. This dexterity was what impressed me the most, as I generally suffer from diaphragm compressions when turning and pushing off the wall. However, I could not do 75 metres with this fin because it didn't have enough power. I normally use a 4kg. extra-hard fiberglass hyperfin made by Leaderfins and come up for air between 75 and 100 metres in dynamic. In this respect - with distance - the Hydrotouring Lunocet does not compare favorably with a hyperfin. In terms of sprinting, however, I was impressed with how small fast undulations with the Lunocet sent me flying across the pool like a torpedo. The important thing here is to keep the body in a straight line, eliminate drag (in my case with a weighted orca triathlon suit) to use the ankles as well as the area just below the ribcage in undulation, and keep knee motion to a minimum.
I was hoping to have the Lunocet Pro here in Montreal in time for Mike's monofin workshop, but that wasn't the case. I do not hold this against Ted. On the contrary, I respect what he is doing immensely. I realize that he is working very hard to develop his product, and I am willing to wait a while longer for it. I had a good chat with Ted over the phone and he explained to me some of the ideas that went into the design and how the Pro would improve upon what he did with the Hydrotouring version as well as something along the same lines as what he wrote here in the forums to address the problems he has encountered with production. I appreciate the fact that he took a few minutes to put things into perspective for me. I'm convinced that Ted is a visionary, and it is clear that he has invested an immense amount of energy, creativity and resources in the Lunocet. I also believe that the monofin of the future - the one that pushes freediving into new records - will be some further development or variation on what Ted is doing here. Maybe that's what the Lunocet Pro is. I don't know yet, but I'm willing to find out.
To tell you a bit about us, 8 out of the 12 people training in our advanced apnea training sessions uses a monofin - most have had theirs made in Russia - and about half of us are competitive and a few have gone to international competitions. Our goals might seem modest to some of you reading this, as all of us can go 75 metres with long fins, and a few are in the 100 metre and more range. We also hold an annual 3 day monofin stage with Mike Maric, an Italian freediver who is one of the world's foremost monofin instructors and trainers. He just wrapped up another stage for us last weekend, and it was incredible. I bought the Lunocet for myself but also for our entire group, as we were all curious. I'm sure that with a bit more practice I might have figured out how to maximize the efficiency of this fin, but I returned it after two full sessions in the pool so as not to wear it out or damage it. I returned it in exchange for the Lunocet Pro, hoping that the larger flukes would make it more suitable for competitive freediving.
There were shortcomings, but there were definitely some good things about it. Aside from the comfort of a triathlon shoe, I found that there was a great advantage in the turn-and-push off the wall (not sure how else to translate the word "virage" that we use here) when doing 50 or 75 metre laps. This dexterity was what impressed me the most, as I generally suffer from diaphragm compressions when turning and pushing off the wall. However, I could not do 75 metres with this fin because it didn't have enough power. I normally use a 4kg. extra-hard fiberglass hyperfin made by Leaderfins and come up for air between 75 and 100 metres in dynamic. In this respect - with distance - the Hydrotouring Lunocet does not compare favorably with a hyperfin. In terms of sprinting, however, I was impressed with how small fast undulations with the Lunocet sent me flying across the pool like a torpedo. The important thing here is to keep the body in a straight line, eliminate drag (in my case with a weighted orca triathlon suit) to use the ankles as well as the area just below the ribcage in undulation, and keep knee motion to a minimum.
I was hoping to have the Lunocet Pro here in Montreal in time for Mike's monofin workshop, but that wasn't the case. I do not hold this against Ted. On the contrary, I respect what he is doing immensely. I realize that he is working very hard to develop his product, and I am willing to wait a while longer for it. I had a good chat with Ted over the phone and he explained to me some of the ideas that went into the design and how the Pro would improve upon what he did with the Hydrotouring version as well as something along the same lines as what he wrote here in the forums to address the problems he has encountered with production. I appreciate the fact that he took a few minutes to put things into perspective for me. I'm convinced that Ted is a visionary, and it is clear that he has invested an immense amount of energy, creativity and resources in the Lunocet. I also believe that the monofin of the future - the one that pushes freediving into new records - will be some further development or variation on what Ted is doing here. Maybe that's what the Lunocet Pro is. I don't know yet, but I'm willing to find out.
Look what the postman brought me today! A genuine Lunocet Pro... This is one gorgeous piece of work-the machine work is impeccable, anodizing is attractive...it is real eye candy in person. If it swims half as good as it looks we are in for a treat! Flukes are significantly larger than the standard ones. Nice packing job, stainless hardware and Allen wrench included. Still fits easily in my bag, too. I will hopefully be trying it out in the morning. Can't wait!
View attachment 38081 View attachment 38083 View attachment 38084
Hi Raffy, I'm curious why you use a sprint fin for dynamic? Also, you may want to drop in over at the 'extreme dolfinism' thread, if you've not done already.
Hi Fondueset,
Which fin are you referring to as a "sprint fin"?
Surely you didn't mean the hyperfin, as the angle of a hyperfin is proven to make monofins more hydrodynamic by aligning the fin with the body as opposed to the foot. This is great for dynamic whether you use the kick-and-glide technique or constant undulation.
If it's the Lunocet you are referring to, sprinting was just one of many exercises that I tried out with it. Another pleasant thing was that it produced very little lactic burn in my core and leg muscles (again, just speaking personal experience here). I also used it for hypercapnic exercises (8 x 25 m laps with diminishing recovery times from one minute to one breath), and I think that this exercise was less difficult as a result of using the Lunocet in the way I described above.
When it came to hypoxic exercises (2 x 50 m, 2 x 65 m, 2 x 75 m, 2 x 85 or 100 m with 75 second recovery times between each) I couldn't get past 65 metres. It just took too long to cover distances. This was what I meant when I wrote that it wasn't great for dynamic, which is measured in a competitive setting in terms of distance.
And no I haven't checked out the "extreme dolphinism" thread yet, but I will. Thanks for bringing it to my attention
I think Fondueset was referring to your statement, "I normally use a 4kg. extra-hard fiberglass hyperfin made by Leaderfins" when he asked about using a sprint fin for dynamic. Normally, extra-hard monofins are favored by sprint finswimmers, and freedivers lean toward soft or medium stiffness blades that favor slower swimming speeds for better economy of energy over distance.
Last edited:
- Status