83 Cnf - New Wr

[BennyB]

Agreed, tempers are fraying so please step back and take a breath everyone before posting.

We'd like see this topic stay open and discussed in a productive manner rather than degrading into an argumentative slanging match, which will inevitably be closed down by DB Mentors.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[TRITON]

I really dont understand why Martin was allowed to dive without a tag in the first place.
If all of the divers that have made WR attempts dove WITH a tag, Martin had to do the same and nobody would have doubted the validity of the record itself.
The mistake has been made, let them share the record , but in future events the tag SHOULD BE MANDATORY.

 

[Adrian]

Or..disqualify Martin's dive, and then reimburse him (or his sponsor) for all the expenses he incurred in training/setting up the dive/travel logistics etc. Nobody wins here, everybody loses and AIDA assumes responsibility to Martin for it's errors. But at least the playing field is kept level for future records.

 

[bam bam]

The judges review the Canadian's video three times. Several stop watches clocks the SP done at times like '14.3', '14.5', '14.6'. She made it, barely, we can't DQ the performance without being pricks.

Chris as you said "she made it". so it was close, but that isn't the point the SP say within 15sec and it was. you up held the rule that the SP had to be done within 15sec. That was a good call, but this...

How is it relavent to your agument?

 

[BennyB]

3 questions... i'm surprised no-one has brought this up yet.

1) Have the AIDA rules that relate to collecting a tag in a CNF WR attempt changed since April 2005? ie. did you need a tag then?

2) Did Martin retrieve a tag in April 2005 in his 80m world record?

3) Should we have had this debate 2 years ago?

The video is available on the PFI website.

 

[Nitas]

In 2005 tags in record attempts were not obligatory. The appendix which equaled the rules for record attempts with the rules for competitions (i.e. made tags obligatory for record attempts) was issued 16.06.2006

 

[CEngelbrecht]

I'm gonna have to take a break from this thread for the rest of the weekend, 'cause it's eating the better of me.

Will, consider taking a break from it too, then get back and work with it all over again. If you still wind up seeing things the same way, make use of your right to appeal the DC decision before the deadline October 12th. But please, dig deep.

 

[DSV]

Hey Guys,

I agree that things are getting a bit out of hand, but Will keeps coming up with really valid points.

Will, please constest the DC.

Now I have a few questions.

When was the rule instated that the athlete has to bring up a tag during CNF & FI? (I don't remember ever seeing this up for vote)(this is a ridiculous rule to start with, bottom video and depth gauge should be enough)

When can we vote on issues with the AIDA Board? i.e. once a year, twice a year...(Obviously following the proper channels)

How do we get a vote started with the AIDA Board about the rule of bringing up a tag during any discipline, in both compitions and WR attempts, that the athlete has to solely use their hands as propulsion? i.e. CNF & FI.

Anyone? Anyone?

Let get this resolved!

 

[Semi]

Or..disqualify Martin's dive, and then reimburse him (or his sponsor) for all the expenses he incurred in training/setting up the dive/travel logistics etc. Nobody wins here, everybody loses and AIDA assumes responsibility to Martin for it's errors. But at least the playing field is kept level for future records.

Certainly this would be best option but im afraid AIDA doesnt have funds to do that.. Im sure others would know better than me but these attemps must be hell expensive (safety divers, judges, travelling, etc etc. )

One side of the coin is fact that you need MONEY for WR attempts and training on proffesional level. If you are world champion or WR holder you get sponsors much easier. And your sponsor WANTS world best performance because thats way how they could get best media attention. Maybe thats one of reasons why people in this case are angry. I would be angry too if someone in my work get more money for doing work other way he should. Im not telling that someone is greedy not at all its simple way how our world works :head
On other side rules if you exactly dont follow rules than your record should not be valid. But what if even then judges tell you that everything is ok? This is catch 22 situation at the end there will always be one unhappy side..
Really hard decision.. fair would be if both freedivers would share WR (marketing wise it would work both way) and Stepanek should get back money which he paid for judges and anti-doping test. This would be fair for both sides.. But would require show of good will to really solve problem.
For future attempts AIDA rules should be crystal clear about requirments..

PS Sorry for my not so good engrish

 

[glennv]

One things for sure besides al the rediculous and ununderstadible unfounded and unexplained decissions beeing made bij the DC (have any of you not DC members seen any reasonable explanation for this decission , besides evasive manouvres to avoid the obvious solution...), if it would have happened to Will he would have been the first to denounce his WR (of course not without cursing the hell out of the judges).

Where is Martin ??? Sure he does not know this issue exists ..... and Martians have also just landed.
Not even a single comment anywhere. Boehoe

 

[sambro]

Could AIDA really disqualify anyone if they now dived 84 cnf, without bringing up a tag? And what significance would that disqualification have if people didn't respect the authority? Many athletes unofficially break records in their training and events, without the requisite AIDA judges and protocol. So what value does AIDA really have to the freediving community? Consistency, and credibility. Without this AIDA does not really stand for very much.

Sam

 

[bam bam]

But we also believe the signal violation was not to the direct fault of the athlete 'due to special circumstances' (ie. the judges making an error and the current document situation).

last argument (promise):

the "Special Circumstances" due to the documentation, well if another group of judges and athlete were able to interpret them and dive accordingly, it would follow that the documents were adequate. Adequate being not perfect, but comprehensible. Thus for me, can’t be used as a valid excuse.

Yes the judges still made a mistake, but the organiser of the event didn’t follow the rules laid out.

So, the Organiser is ultimately responsible for the mistake, giving the athlete an advantage, so the record shouldn’t stand.

It is still an amazing dive, but that's all, no record.

 

[H.Balázs]

Hello,

I found this news on Aida International web page:

"007-09-27 By: aida

Martin’s record dive in CNF

Martin Stepanek’s recent Constant No Fins World Record dive of 83 meters has been declared non valid by the AIDA board. The board in this decision faced various issues. Each world record is officiated over by two AIDA judges. These judges are tasked with the obligation to protect three people during each performance; the current record holder, the athlete attempting to break the record, and the future record holder that will have to break a more difficult record. Due to the lack of a tag during this record attempt, the AIDA board has decided that the regulations were not fulfilled during the record performance. Thus, the board has been forced to take action on this matter.

AIDA Executive Board
2007-09-27"

Balázs

 

[trux]

It is very sad for Martin and his sponsors, but I am afraid it was the only correct solution. I applaud AIDA's management for taking this hard decision, and wish that Martin shows us very soon that he is capable of doing the same or even better even when following the rules perfectly.

 

[glennv]

Big thumbs up for AIDA for having the guts to admit the mistake :friday.
This was indeed the only real solution how sad it may be for Martin. In the end it will benefit the sport and therefor also his future dives.
It also shows that AIDA is growing up and becoming better and better, with bumps and bruises.....

 

[Kars]

Thank you AIDA boardmembers for having the courage to do what you have done.

for doing NOT the easy thing, but it is the right thing.

I hope AIDA can offer Martin a compensation, he certainly deserves a second chance.
I know Martin has the ability and love to see him setting more beautifull AIDA World Records.

Thank you Chris Engelbrecht for bringing this to the attention of DB public, and offer your views, information and clairifications!

Love, Courage and water,

Kars.

 

[chrismar]

The right decision in difficult circumstances. Hopefully this will be put behind us in Egypt shortly.

 

[Goran Colak]

I am pleasantly surprised by this decision.

Thumbs up for AIDA, and for Martin ho will did it again in the right way I am sure.

 

[DSV]

Kudos to the AIDA Board for doing the right thing!!!!!

Also Kudos to William T. for pursuing the correct actions that obviously forced AIDA to step back and make the proper decision.

To Chris E. thank you for sharing your thoughts and open comments on this forum, no matter how heated, this is what this is for.

And to Martin, I have no doubt that you can do the record and beyond with a tag.

This is not sad news, this is the way it should be and this is motivation for Martin and the other top athletes to perform at the best of their ability, but following the rules that govern our sport.

NOW LET'S GET RID OF THE TAG RULE FOR CNF AND FI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pehtran]

Very nice though difficult decision.
I am looking forward to future duels between William, Martin and the rest of the best in the (in my opinion) the most prestigious depth disciplin.
Miha