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Corona discussion.

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Leander

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2017
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Everything corona! (That surely sounds wrong), from tin-foil-hat conspiracies to blaming, bashing and truths, but also opinions, ideas and quarantine-boredom-frustration-outings. Don't sneeze at your screen, that's gross.
 
Reactions: xristos
To continue on the chat that was going on in the Science section..

I'm from the Netherlands and currently in Greece, two countries that are definitely doing too little too late. The thing is, we've been here. We had infections before. Yet we still let it happen and wait with taking measures until the moment of 'now or never'. I remember crossing the China-HongKong border in 2007, years after SARS. They had heat-imaging cameras pointed at the public as a measure to catch things like this early on. Most illnesses giving a high fever are something worth investigating if you see it passing a busy hub, perhaps Italy could have caught the source before it even passed customs.

I agree China not just could, but should have been more open on the science part, and that is true for all the world. More and more companies are apparently sharing their findings on this virus as open-source. Perhaps this is the way to move forward, also after we defeated this virus. It's the opposite of patents. I guess patents can be good in the car industry, but when it comes to health I see it as a threat and just plain wrong and unwanted.

This pandemic also shows us the importance of a free internet. I'm sure China tried all it could to keep news from getting out. I agree with that. But no matter how tight a country tries to monitor data-traffic, there's always a way. So they can delay it, but they can't prevent it. I guess in a way you can compare the spreading of data with the spreading of this virus.
 
I just couldn't be the one posting out of category while pushing to do it somewhere mpre appropriate. But it sure feels quite sterile here... Which is weird, it being a screen with text.

Here luckily there isn't a full quarantine yet, but there's a heavy northern wind, so no diving today. Now I spend too much time typing. :S
 
Reactions: grarena
It’s all good. I’m an anesthesiologist and our work is compromised. Only emergency surgery which isn’t good because affects income. Hope it’s temporary. I don’t dive. I dabble with some dynamic apnea in pool. 50 meters on a breath. I’m 63. Good health. I’m pretty good at static apnea. 1 1/2 years ago I decided to test my ability. I’ve always knew I couid hold a while but never really tried so 1.5 years ago I dedicated an hour or sometimes 2 hours to see what I can do. Usually in 2-3 month increments of peaking.
this is my progression
4:10,5:00,5:30,6:00,6:45:7:33
So then I wanted to do 8 min. I counted the number of over 5:00 breath holds a week. When I was at 30 a week for 5 weeks straight I hit 8:05

then a month later 8:45. Hoping for 9 min soon
 
Reactions: xristos and foxfish
Wow! So you can do all your shopping right now while holding your breath? Talking about effective measures!

My best so far is 4:04. But a long time ago (20 years back @16y/o) I could do only 3:28 and then go dancing a samba, but I could do 75m no-fins in the pool. I now stopped doing dry-land statics, they feel like a torture, while for some reason contractions under water dont feel heavy at all. But I dive alone, so no pushing there either.
 
Reactions: xristos and foxfish
Back to Corona. Lets not blame the Chinese for all the worlds diseases. Ebola, Zika, and MERS came from Africa and the Middle East.
Also, America had a huge advantage to get ready for this - we knew about since January yet did nothing to prepare until March. And more than few politicians with their own self interest actively tried to block any action to get ready. There is plenty of blame to be placed all around the world if that's what you want to do.
 
I’d like to reply to a post you made on the other thread. I think it’s a topic that becomes more relevant every day.

Leander said:
Fwiw, I do defend their culture, even if it's for the sole reason of it being their culture, including their eating habits and market practises, not our culture.
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You would defend a culture simply because it exists?? No culture can possibly be bad? One culture can’t be better or worse than another? All cultures are equal?

Sorry but that kind of left wing ideology is itself a dangerous virus that’s spreading out of control

Leander said:
You can't judge them using our culture as ruler. Why are we right and they wrong? Are we special?
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We are far from being perfect ourselves but Western culture has undoubtedly reached a time in history where it is superior to many Middle Eastern & Asian countries, to say otherwise is delusional.

Would you happily torture animals? Would you stand by and watch someone while they made an animal suffer? Would you not intervene if a fellow human being was being tortured because of their sexuality? Would you not stop a woman being beaten like a dog simply because she is a woman? Of course you don’t agree with any of those things and that’s simply because your culture is better than others. Why is that so hard to accept?

Leander said:
We're different players with different tactics, playing the same game.
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A democratic society and a brutal communist regime are not remotely the same game. I’m all for every country being allowed to live how they see fit, but not when it’s to the detriment of everybody else.
 
Very good questions.

No, I do not agree with torturing animals, not on a Chinese market, not in a Dutch/US/French/etc slaughterhouse. We do exactly the same, and even on an industrial scale.

I do not agree with making social difference based on gender either. I said social difference because biological difference is hard to miss. But of course that's not a reason for torture, neither is it a reason for separated sports. If we want to promote equal rights then we have to go all the way, not stop somewhere before and call it done.

I defend other cultures because, just like in the debate of which one is better in man-vs-women, human-vs-animal, black-vs-white, gay-vs-straight, there is no 'better' in our culture vs theirs. There is just difference. Of course we say that we are the best, that's human competition, a very primal thing. That is also why in all those examples there are people trying to exploit it.

There are things in every culture that I disagree with, but that still doesn't make me the better person. With all probability they disagree with parts of my culture too. The two of us disagree as well; now who is the better person? We both say I am, but in reality we're both equal, but not the same. I see your reasoning, I understand it, I disagree with it, but I'm not seeing you as evil because of it.

As for intervening, I think this is a very delicate subject. We all have a basic sense of what is right and what is wrong, whatever culture we belong to, and we all have the right to change the world. But try your hardest to understand and respect both sides.

I'm from the Netherlands. In just our capital city, Amsterdam, we have about 180 nationalities and many more cultures and subcultures living side by side. Instead of fighting, we see all of us as 'Amsterdammer' and value our differences.
I guess if this 'left wing ideology' is a virus then we're patient zero.
 
J Campbell said:
And more than few politicians with their own self interest actively tried to block any action to get ready.
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I liked the story about the guy who bought 18.000 bottles of hand-sanitizer to resell them when the pandemic would hit. He now had to donate them to charity under social and government pressure.

But on government scale this is obvious too. I imagine they have nice calculations of how far they can go, how much lives the economy is worth.
 
Leander said:
No, I do not agree with torturing animals, not on a Chinese market, not in a Dutch/US/French/etc slaughterhouse. We do exactly the same, and even on an industrial scale.
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It’s very worrying that you keep saying things are like for like when in fact they are completely different. Our systems may not be perfect but we most certainly do not cook animals why they are still alive, slit their throats to let them bleed out etc. We try to do things as humanely as we possibly can. Only a certain kind of human being puts no value whatsoever on the life of living creatures.

Leander said:
I defend other cultures because, just like in the debate of which one is better in man-vs-women, human-vs-animal, black-vs-white, gay-vs-straight, there is no 'better' in our culture vs theirs.
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Again, not remotely like for like. There is no moral difference between being black and white, straight or gay etc. There is a very moral difference between beating your wife and not beating your wife. Making an animal suffer and choosing not to. Cultural differences are completely different to every example you just gave.

Leander said:
There are things in every culture that I disagree with, but that still doesn't make me the better person.
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If you don’t think you are a better person than someone who kills someone because they are gay, stones a women to death because she didn’t wear a head scarf, or doesn’t care about the pain and suffering of living creatures, then you have a very low opinion of yourself. I know I’m better than people like that. It’s a fact!

Leander said:
With all probability they disagree with parts of my culture too. The two of us disagree as well; now who is the better person? We both say I am, but in reality we're both equal, but not the same.
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We disagree, but we are still both equal because morally we are the same. Or very similar at least. If morally we were different then chances are we wouldn’t be equal.

Leander said:
I see your reasoning, I understand it, I disagree with it, but I'm not seeing you as evil because of it.
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You’re not seeing me as evil because I don’t do anything evil. It’s the fact that you refuse to say people that are doing evil things are evil that’s so peculiar.

And your rapes and sexual assault numbers are going up significantly every year. But if that’s something ‘Amsterdammers’ are OK with then good luck to you. It’s strange how you’ll happily accept that rape is bad but a culture that encourages it can’t be deemed to be a worse culture than one that doesn’t.
 
I'm not very comfortable with the direction this is heading. So, ok.
 
Leander said:
I'm not very comfortable with the direction this is heading. So, ok.
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Which translates to “I don’t have the slightest idea how to respond to sound logic and common sense without veering from my left wing, globalist, cult like stand point”

If ever you want to put your big boy pants on, and feel capable of having an adult conversation, let me know.
 
No, it means I'm not comfortable with you putting me on a chopping block for something that originated in the corona-topic, inflating and pushing it in a direction that almost feels manufactured for the sole cause of inflicting damage to me. I'm not on this forum for this, and hopefully you're not either.

Edit: Let's quit fighting and keep this forum a place that feels as a nice hangout for divers and freedivers.
 
Last edited:
cdavis said:
This has gone far enough. Woohoo you are way way out of line.


Moderators take note.
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Seriously?? I’ve always loved this forum for it’s lack of trolls and keyboard warriors but I didn’t know genuine, adult debate was off the table. I have strong opinions and I’ll happily discuss them with anyone who thinks they can prove me wrong. I’m equally happy to be proved wrong. Every day’s a school day. Way out of line? Do me a favour.
 

Not sure how you think my words on a forum can cause you damage exactly?? Of course I have no ill feeling toward you at all. I thought you may be as opinionated as me and happy to fight your corner. I now know different.
 
J Campbell said:
Woohoo - Google "how are chickens slaughtered".
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Baring in mind that on at least 3 occasions I said that we’re far from perfect when it comes to animal welfare in the West. It is after all a very hard balance to strike. We want animals to suffer as little as possible, while at the same time accepting that animals being bred for human consumption is an inevitable and natural part of human life.

I’m fairly sure most chickens are electrocuted or gassed before they are killed, thus minimising the suffering as much as possible. Not sure what point you were trying to make as I don’t see how that compares to countries were there are no laws whatsoever to protect the welfare of animals.
 
Reactions: CHRISTINE33
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