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Custom spearguns pictures

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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ajwaverider

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Jan 3, 2004
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Anybody have any experience with granadillo wood in woodworking ,building ect?
 
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Dick Splash

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Mar 12, 2004
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Daryl Wong said:
Mahogany. It is a soft wood, easy to work with................ I used to make Ballast wings (yes me too before I saw the light) out of this material because I could add a greater amt of ballast due to mahogany's buoyancy.
What's the story with ballast wings Daryl? Why dont you like them? I would have thought they would be a great way of adding mass to a powerfull gun
 
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Bill McIntyre

Bill McIntyre

San Clemente, CA
Staff member
Forum Mentor
Jan 27, 2005
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I love my Wong guns because they DON'T have wings. Wings are a pain in the ass and make the gun harder to handle, and are not necessary if the gun is designed with enough mass for its shaft and bands. However, Daryl is obviously better qualified than I to get into the details. He makes them, I'm just a happy user of the product. I'm really just posting here so that I will get an email notice of more posts to the thread.
 
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Old Man Dave

Old Man Dave

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Hi Guys
Just been inspired by this thread to re-read book by Terry Maas. Principally the section on guns. Must be about 10 pages on "How to". He goes for teak or teak clad metal (stainless tube). Good pics and lots of detail inc. ballast wings, weight, plus things like spear point dynamics. If you're into this thread you gotta read it. Even if you don't agree with him you'll learn a lot (probably not you Daryl). Despite the internet had to get me daughter to fetch me a copy back from Terrys back yard (southern Cali). My only reselvation is that these guns are more like bazookas - no more like shoulder launch SAMs. Still if I shot any fish that swims around here with one of those at least I wouldn't have to fillet it - could always make soup though.
Dave ( That's Old Man Dave not "old dave" - the mega bass slayer - jammy sod).(See Thred UK Season , is it........)
 
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Shellback

New Member
Jul 22, 2003
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Hello Fellow Spearos.

I enjoy all the great comments on the building issues and the efforts many of you have made already. I also very much agree with everything Daryl had to say about woods.

There are a few things that I have not seen mentioned yet that I know you would find helpful.
First regarding the wood selection. GRAIN. I am also involved in teh making of mujsical instruments, and i can say that every builder uses "quarter sawn" wood for the necks especially, and most other parts of the instrument. Why? Because "quarter sawn" wood resists warping.
If you look at the end grain of your wood and it is pretty straight (perpendicular to one edge, and parrallel to the next side) it is probably quarter sawn. You would also want o make sure and have the orientation of the grain running vertically on the barrel to resist the band pressure.
When, if, you are laminating your barrle, make sure all of the grain is running vertically.

Second, you might consider either laminating carbonfiber strips between teh wood laminations, or consider "imbedding" a carbonfiber square rod inside of the barrle for reinforcing. In musical instruments we uses a 3/8" X 3/8" rod under the fretbaord of some instrument in the neck to resist warping. It is quite strong. It is available in different dimensions.

Good building.

Mark
 
OregonSpearo

OregonSpearo

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Oct 11, 2004
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Shellback said:
Hello Fellow Spearos.
Second, you might consider either laminating carbonfiber strips between teh wood laminations, or consider "imbedding" a carbonfiber square rod inside of the barrle for reinforcing. In musical instruments we uses a 3/8" X 3/8" rod under the fretbaord of some instrument in the neck to resist warping. It is quite strong. It is available in different dimensions.
Mark makes a good point. A while ago I came across this article describing a similar technique involving reusing old fiberglass fishing rods to strengthen rifles' wood stocks:
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/semi_0515/
Interesting reading.
OregonSpearo
 
Daryl Wong

Daryl Wong

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2003
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Hi Guys,

I wrote an article for HSD magazine awhile back on the evolution of blue water guns and where they have headed as far as improvements. I basically said that Wings do work and provide ballast and bouyancy for the bigger guns, but in a nutshell it is better to design the gun without wings to help increase thier manuverability. Here is a short piece on the guns.

Blue water guns

The early versions of bluewater guns were bulked-up reef guns, varying in weight from ten to twenty pounds. Large wings were added to increase mass and resistance in the water. This helped reduce the recoil produced by multiple bands needed to increase the shaft range. However, these guns now became bulky, cumbersome, and less maneuverable in the water. Also, accuracy diminished due to shaft whipping from the additional bands.

The newer generation of bluewater guns have addressed these problems. They retained the weight and mass, but they have gained in accuracy and maneuverability. This is due to design changes in the shape of the guns and the guidance system for the 5/16 to 3/8 inch shafts. These guns have tapered stocks and enclosed track guide systems built into the stock, among other things. A tapered stock adds mass, increases buoyancy, and enables weights to be added internally, with centralized ballasting throughout the long axis of the stock – producing a more streamlined and balanced “feel” to the gun.

With improved technology and design, the modern day hunter can now have a more efficient hunting tool to land large bluewater pelagics.

Wings can make the bluewater gun very cumbersome and if you think pushing around a 15-18lb gun is bad, try moviing it when it is paddle shaped.

There is another reason that some use wings. It is because spearos are trying to improve on their guns by adding on wings rather than getting a gun built specifically for the job.

Production gun manufacturers are bound by only a few models that are made in
large quantities. In their defense they have to invest a lot of money to
mass produce a certain model, so they have to limit themselves on the number
of models they are going to produce to get their investment back. They
basically say, ok we think these few models will work for 70% of the spear
fisherman's needs. The other 30% can just adapt the gun to what they need.
Or they make one style of gun and then just make them bigger or smaller and
if certain needs are required, and then just make add on attachments to help
increase the power or decrease the recoil. Why not make a gun for what is
needed or using the right tool for the right job.

So this is just my opinion about wings. There is nothing wrong with having them. I used to make them on the first Blue water guns I made. Its just sometimes there are better ways to acheive your goals. This is one of the nice things about making guns. I can bult them the way I want and what the spearos want.

Mark, You are right about quarter sawn. I always used to look for planks that are cut that way. Also the tighter the grain the denser the wood. I used to do this religiously when I would buy my wood.

The reality of it now is that teak is getting harder and harder to bring in. I normally buy 200-400 board ft/year and the price and the quality is getting worse and worse with each order. I can no longer pick through a thousand board feet at my wood source. It is a take it or leave it policy now. I have to order the exact amt I want and then they will bring it in. Not all are quartersawn planks and not all are dense.

But I have also learned that even though quarter sawn grain is great, it is not an absolute requirement. Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the most imprtant thing is to be careful in how I laminate the wood and to make sure the pieces are straight to begin with. I also learned that even though many laminations of smaller pieces of teak are less prone to warpage, I did not notice any difference. I have had to restraighten a few stocks that were multi laminations done by others and myself. So now I usually laminate only two piceces vertically and one horizontally across the top.

Steve Alexander one of the most respected custom gun builders uses only two pieces of Teak liminated vertically and he has been doing this for years.

So the main thing is make a gun that will make YOU happy to use and as long as it kills fish who cares. Thats the fun of making your own gun. Sorry about the long winded post.

Aloha, Daryl
 
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Green_Griffin

New Member
Apr 17, 2005
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Re: First try

DOBS
Whehey that's beautiful!!! I have an immersion gun 75. I've been thinking of upgrading it and presto I find that you did all my home work. Ok, upgrading to 90 should suffice for the moment. Does the immersion trigger mechanism hold with 16mm bands along 300% stretch of the 90cm rod? Do you think replacing them with a 19mm might exceed the trigger's load specifications?
I am really interested in making something of the sort. I lost too many fish because I did not have anough punch.

griffin
 
Dobs

Dobs

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2004
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Hi Green,
Thanks for the compliment :)
I think you will have no problems at all putting 19 or even 20 mm rubbers as Imersion has Megabooster bands (20mm) for its models including for the Challenger. I don't think they would do such powerful bands if the trigger cannot hold the extra power.
I ordered 8 feet of 19 mm bulk rubber and it should be here by the end of the month and then I will be able to test it and give more info on the gun power and accuracy with the more powerful bands.
Cheers from BG.
P.S. I had the chance to make some target shooting on Saturday and the gun is pretty decent with the 16 mm bands, I can only imagine how it would be with the 19mm.
 
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Green_Griffin

New Member
Apr 17, 2005
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Hi Dobs,
2 queries here:
1. I cannot figure out what that loop that holds the front of ths shaft consists of; is it wood? Or is it a sort of clip that you mounted afterwards? I saw alot of wooden guns without a loop for hoding the fornt of the shaft. Is that why wooden guns' elastic are strapped below the shaft slide, so that with the elastic it holds down the shaft. Isn't it better to have the elastic strapped at the same level (as the original immersion muzzle) as the shaft ; thus causing less downward force of the shaft onto the slide.

2. What is the the purpose of that metal entwined in cord? The cord is not attached to the shaft, right?

Thanks
Griffin
 
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Green_Griffin

New Member
Apr 17, 2005
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Hello Dobs,
It's me again, forget the queries above, they are irrelevant at this stage. What I need from you to start with my project, is some info on how to dismantle the muzzle and Immersion handle from the Aluminium bar. Sorry I am not very technical on these things. Thus, to remove the muzzle, should I hammer that plastic insert out?(Fig1.a) or is is screwed/glued? For the immersion handle, how do you remove that? I suppose both muzzle and handle are glued to Aluminium bar, in what manner did you dislodge them?
Thanks, and tell us how you got on with the 19mm bands.
 

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Dobs

Dobs

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2004
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Hi Griffin,
I actually bought the handle alone, it has never been part of a gun, but anyway with the gun you have it should not be too hard to remove the handle and muzzle. I suppose those things you marked on the pictures are some kind of pins and they should be hammered out, but this is as regards the muzzle. As for the handle you don't need to remove the pins you marked on your picture. You should look at the other end of the handle both on the sides and below. See the places where I put the screws on my gun, there should be either plastic pins or similar screws on your gun. Why do you want to remove the muzzle? DO you plan to use it on your wooden gun?
 
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Old Man Dave

Old Man Dave

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Feb 19, 2005
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Portinfer (Ed) and his mate Pete are making a small teak gun each and in this Old Man Dave is helping.
We've glued up 2 stocks, each with 3 laminates of teak. Wood was arranged so that any bends were in opposite directions and then we acetoned them to remove any surface oil. Mating surfaces were scored with a utility knife to provide maximum grip and then a coat of slow cure West System epoxy (mixed 5:1) was applied on both surfaces to be joined with a half inch brush. Lots of clamps (not too tight) held it all together for 24 hours. Once set they were run through a 12 inch circular saw with a tipped blade to true them up.
Next episode "Morticing out for the trigger mechanism and making the handle". Stay tuned.
 
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leighdu

New Member
Feb 9, 2005
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here is a couple of guns im working on.

first is a 1.2 gun with a jarraj barrel and sheoak handle.

second is a 1m gun with a bluckbutt barrel and sheoak handle

and there is a handle im tring out
 

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Shellback

New Member
Jul 22, 2003
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Hi Leighdu -

I am unfamiliar with a jarraj barrel or a bluckbutt barrel. Please give us some info about those two; the pros and cons of each.
Whose trigger mechanizm are you using and spear size?
Have you had an opportunity to shoot these yet?
Also, I am pretty familar with a lot of wood, but I have never heard of sheoak. Please tell me about it.

thanks

Mark in Portland
 
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leighdu

New Member
Feb 9, 2005
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these are all Australian woods, there all hardwoods and jarrah is proberly the most dense out of the 3 i used the blackbutt becuase had some off cuts at work and they are made of 2mm laminations.
i used sheoak for the handles becuase it is my favorite looking wood. i will find out the pros and cons soon when u use them.

Im using and australia Undersee trigger mech which use the square notch spear and can hold up to 4 x 16mm rubbers. they cost around $45 USD

Im going to use a single 20mm band and a 7mm spear, and should be shooting my 1.2 this weekend
 
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Green_Griffin

New Member
Apr 17, 2005
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Sorry Dobs for the long wait,
I made some homework. Well I checked upon wood available on my Island, well teak is quite rare and expensive here , my best candidate seems to be oak. I checked on the feasibility of the project and I might even do 2 barrels while I'm at it.
Now, the big question, will it be the immersion muzzle with the screwable bands or just a hole in the barrel for loop bands?
I have a question for Dobs and the others in this thread:
The hole you put at the end of your barrels is rather low form the horizontal axis of the shaft. This does not cause alot of unneccassary friction between the shaft and the slide? Is there any advantage of this? I imagine that with use the slide would wear out and maintenance is inevitable.
By the way:Leighdu, I love that sheoak handle you made!!!!!
 
Dobs

Dobs

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2004
365
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Hi Griffin,
I'm not so experienced in this, but I think one of the advantages of the wooden guns with no muzzle is the better view/aiming. I don't think friction is a serious issue as there will always be a thin film of water between the shaftguide and the shaft itself that will serve as a lubricant. There are several companies that produce euro-style spearguns and they all make their guns with one loop band. If you put both handle and muzzle of Imersion or any other manufacturer's gun you basically will replace the aluminum tube with a wooden one and I'm not sure there would be much difference.
I will recommend you to check some of the websites of Italian or Spanish wooden guns manufacturers. They are very inspiring.
Here are some:
www.totemsub.it http://www.cybermanonline.com/shopnet_dapiran/dapiran.htm
http://www.gimansub.it/pag1.htm

And of course the website of Persiko (DB member) is great place too: http://www.arbalegno.com/
 
OregonSpearo

OregonSpearo

New Member
Oct 11, 2004
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Green_Griffin said:
Sorry Dobs for the long wait,
The hole you put at the end of your barrels is rather low form the horizontal axis of the shaft. This does not cause alot of unneccassary friction between the shaft and the slide? Is there any advantage of this? I imagine that with use the slide would wear out and maintenance is inevitable.
By the way:Leighdu, I love that sheoak handle you made!!!!!
This would be a disadvantage with an aluminum tube and no point of support for the shaft between the handle and the muzzle as the shaft would bend and shoot upwards. But on a wood barrel with full-length rail, this is not an issue.

The advantage of offseting the bands hole down is to line up the band hole and the pressure point of the handle along a direction parallel to that of the shaft to minimize muzzle flip. The pressure point of the handle is where the skin of your hand between your thumb and your index finger holds the handle. This is what the gun buts against when shot and since it is offset from the center of the barrel, the whole gun rotates around this point causing muzzle flip. By bringing the pulling direction of the bands on the same axis as this point, muzzle flip can be nearly cancelled.

Dapiran's web site has more detailed explanations of muzzle flip cancellation, pictures of his design and a video of his gun in action with no muzzle flip. Note that this works for rear-handled guns (euro-style) where the pressure point is usually higher. On mid-handle guns, muzzle flip will always be more pronounced because the handle is way down, so other tricks relying on dampening are used to soften the blow upwards, like wings, etc...
 
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jasonspearfish

New Member
May 1, 2005
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Hi
I am building my own speargun and I want to spend as little money as possible. I want to make my own trigger mechanisim but they are a bit tricky. Could any one who knows how to make them please let me know.
P.S photos and detail would help alot.

Thanx heeps.
 
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