Dangers of free diving?

[naiad]

sorry for my bad english
black spot = little bit of brain dead, lost forever

even for a little BO, it seems

the effect onLMC had to be verified

I would have thought that such an injury would have noticeable effects on the person's ability to do things! I know that some freedivers have had many blackouts and LMCs, and they seem to be normal!

Also, why would the damage be localised? Surely hypoxia would not be concentrated in one small area?

People can also blackout for many reasons not connected to apnea (eg standing up suddenly), and these are almost always due to brain hypoxia. Would this have the same effect?

Just a few questions

Lucia

 

[DeepThought]

So if an expirienced freediver was to come to this check up the professor would be able to roughly estimate the amount of blackouts he had in his life?

I am wondering what kind of blackouts the people who participated in this experiments had... I've been thinking for some while that some rescue procedures don't give enough emphasis on getting the diver to breath ASAP and that might be the real issue about brain damage.

that's why I never thought to push my apnea just near the limit
but I'm a beginner

Most of us never wanted to blackout, but the risk is there, you can't always estimate your limits, that's why we are supposed try to dive with proper safety. Just a note from someone who had that lesson not so long ago. :hmm

EDIT: some of us have access to scientific databases and journals, so if this research was published and you have some mean of directing us we would be thankful.

 

[rifmaniac]

I wonder if those "black spots" can appear even without BO's

 

[cjorca]

Mr. X:

Here are a few guide lines you can follow to help minimize your concerns about injuries.

1. NEVER freedive alone. If you have a buddy with you who is aware of the signs & symptoms of SWB, you have a much better chance of surviving if one should occur.

2. Dive within YOUR limits. Don't let peer-pressure pursuade you to attempt a dive your not comfortable with.

3. Increase your depths and/or times slowly and by small increments, slowly increasing your comfort zone and limits. The body and mind will respond better to positive re-inforcement ( baby steps ). If you were to increase your breath-hold times or your depth significantly, your run the risk of BO. A BO would definatly be a Negative re-inforcement. This also allow you body to build up tolerance to narcosis ( if your at that depth level in your diving/training where narcosis is becoming a concern ). DSC can be minimized if you avoid multiple deep dives.

4. Give yourself plenty of time to breath between dives and DO NOT HYPERVENTALATE. Short surface intervals can lead to Deep Water Black out. 80 % of the breathing stimulas is triggered by high levels of CO2 - if you don't give yourself enough time between dives to build up your low levels of O2, your O2 will drop faster than you CO2 builds up.

5. Buddy pair can follow the one-up, one-down system. That way if the buddy on the dive experiences any problems, the other buddy is ready/able to assist them.

6. Whenever possible, avoid depths where you can no longer keep visual contact with one another. I know this can be hard for some as their only body of water might have limilted Visability, in which case I would recommend an acsent/decent line whenever possible. If you have some scuba friend who are willing to spot for you at the bottom, all the better.

7. If you or your buddy have suffered a LMC or BO, stop freediving for the rest of the day. Its possible your could be more susceptable to another LMC or BO and its a lot of stress on your body. ( not to mention that negative re-inforcing thing )

and last but not least, when in doubt - whether it be due to weather, the chosen site, the people your diving with, anything that might make you uncomfortable about the dive, walk away. The idea is to prevent problems whenever possible.

Safe dives to all

 

[Mr. X]

Mr. X:

Here are a few guide lines you can follow to help minimize your concerns about injuries.

1. NEVER freedive alone. If you have a buddy with you who is aware of the signs & symptoms of SWB, you have a much better chance of surviving if one should occur.

Thanks for the advice. I am not overly concerned -- I just like to know what I am dealing with and I also wondered if participants were generally aware (apparently not judging from comments here!). My interest stems from daily horror stories from a friend & colleague, who is coincidently a PADI diving instructor. I am a spearo rather than a competitive free diver or scuba diver. It is possible to spear without diving deep (or diving at all). Most of my spearing has been done alone, through necessity rather than choice -- although I quite enjoy the solitude of it & it disturbs the fish less. That said, I have a big safety float & usually have friends or family on the beach and several times a local, a young Cornish spearo/surfer, Mike, would paddle out in a kids' dinghy to chat & check up on me!

I have a couple of friends that are keen to spear with me now though -- so hopefully that will be safer. One also has a boat...so that could be interesting. I have also started to pool train a little for underwater duration & maneouvering rather than depth. I have also upgraded my gear a little to allow longer and deeper trips (better wetsuit & weight belt). Diving to 3 - 6m is probably more than enough for me. My breath holding is a paltry 45 secs. pretty consistently (as it was when I was a child of 9 or 10!) -- static or dynamic. I did manage a minute once! I have managed 25m under water a couple of times. I feel pretty safe with those times. It seems like I could probably train to increase my down times quite a lot -- but I am not sure that it is worth the risk for me (this forum has certainly helped form my thoughts on this) ... especially when I am open water spearing alone. For me, breath holding is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. It would be good to increase those times a little though!

The amount of information available on breath-holding technique & physiology now is truly impressive -- primarily as a result of competitive free diving. By the way, did you know the World Record for static breath holding is 8 minutes & 58 seconds [ref. Guiness Book of Records 2006]!! They used to say that stopping breathing for more than 4 minutes would cause brain damaged.

 

[Mr. X]

Please don't forget to post this thread (or PM me) if you come across interesting free diving related conditions, issues, injuries, risks, dangers, etc.. The master list is now an amazing 42 entries long [:hmm makes you think - gulp!]...but new issues still keep cropping up, so I am sure there are more. Let's share the knowledge and make this the definitive list for free diving.

 

[nomad1966]

hey Ive a bit of a problem :crutch , although I found a way around it, I had a mastoid operation ( bony section at the rear of the ear) when I was a teen and was told never to dive in any way:waterwork . Life deals you sad cards now and then,I allways tried in vain to keep the ears completely dry with very limited success but not to be beaten I purchased a new mask recently thats changed my world for the better. IST pro ear ( dry cups over the ears seals the ears connected to mask via one way tubes and lets you equalize ok), yes I know all the blarb:duh but I cant keep out of the water. its been a life long thing...all my doctor said keep the ear dry so thats what I do. I dont need to equilize my right ear as there is no ear drum in it( I can blow air from it) hence keep dry, I can deal with the left ear no problem(normal). The mask I use my not be low volume but it lets me get into the water...full stop and works great down to my limit right now 8 meters.
I can cope with this for I love the sea and hey if ya dont follow you heart your brain will stop...god help me when they no longer produce the mask...I will just have to purchase a good supply for storage..thats life

so the rest I can deal with without thought..erm maybe the blackout bit is a bit scary..:hungover never say never...

 

[Mr. X]

Checkout this link: http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/photogallery/memorial/south.html

 

[Akoni]

The dangers of Freediving, I found a video on Freediving.at with one of the dangers of Freediving:

http://www.freediving.at/downloads/freitauchen.mpg

 

[Akoni]

the video works now

 

[naiad]

Another risk of pool training - getting jumped on/kicked/stood on/trapped underwater by other pool users, almost always not freedivers. Maybe I become invisible when I hold my breath. :vangry

Also the risk of underwater fights, maybe caused by the above. :martial

I avoid crowded public pool sessions now!

Lucia

 

[Morg]

Another risk of pool training - getting jumped on/kicked/stood on/trapped underwater by other pool users, almost always not freedivers. Maybe I become invisible when I hold my breath. :vangry

Also the risk of underwater fights, maybe caused by the above. :martial

I avoid crowded public pool sessions now!

Lucia

I just did that last night. My buddy and I pulled into the parking lot and noticed it was quite full so we just left.

The pool itself is very crappy. You have to walk in a stairway to get to the change rooms . Also the pool is only 6'2 feet deep rofl

$10 Canadian to use it for a day as well roflrofl

 

[Erik]

One more: tastes of enlightenment, leading to enthusiastic pro-active spiritual seeking at the expense of all other 3 dimensional pursuits
Peace,
Erik Y.

 

[Mr. X]

Uh..yeah, right Erik

Not exactly the most serious danger discussed but...

Anybody out there got a vertical split in the toe nail of their largest toe?

A fellow spearo told me about & showed me his split toe nail, warning one should wear booties otherwise finning will split one's big toe nail. Well, I already do wear booties but I too have a vertical split in my big toe nail - which I showed him, snap - exact match! I had not associated the split with diving prior to that. Not sure what the fix is -- superglue did not work for me!

[I have updated the Master List on Page 1 of this thread]

 

[Mr. X]

I rememberd another. Decompresion sicknes (DCS).

Can freedivers suffer from DCS/bends? It sounds like it is an issue for scuba divers -- can freedivers get it too?

e.g. [ref to above link]

"Decompression sickness, also called the bends, is caused by nitrogen bubbles forming in the bloodstream and tissues of the body. The bubbles occur if you move from deep water towards the surface (where the surrounding pressure is lower) in too short a space of time...During a dive, large amounts of nitrogen are taken into the body's tissues. This is because the diver is breathing air at a higher pressure than if they were at the surface."

[Seems like[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_narcosis"] Nitrogen Narcosis [/ame] is considered an entirely different problem.]

 

[Shadowkiller]

Yep, freedivers can get DCS.

Benjamin Franz was crippled by it, although I think he's recovered now.

Ed Hayman (South African) got the bends while spearfishing.

 

[Mr. X]

Akoni started this great new thread for beginners: http://forums.deeperblue.net/forum60/thread64959.html?=#post582365

 

[Mr. X]

I've update the [ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showpost.php?p=563328&postcount=7"]master list[/ame] to include "Surfer's Ear". There are numerous discussions of this condition on the forum, suggesting it might be quite common, including a recent discussion on the Devon 2006 thread. Obviously ear problems are of particular concern to divers, because of issues with pressure & equalizing.

 

[DiverTodd]

Yet another risk; having your conversations turn into THIS:

"Freediving blah blah blah blah freediving blah blah static blah blah blah freediving blah blah blah dynamic blah blah wetsuit...."

I think I'm running the risk of being KILLED by my co-workers! "OH MY GOD!! TODD!! If the word "freediving" comes out of your mouth ONE...MORE...TIME...."

Todd

 

[ocean_314]

The one thing that scares me is getting tangled is old fishing line. This happened to me once thank god i was on the surface. If i was down 20ft i would have been dead.
I foolishly allowed myself to be talked into diving off a zodiac in area where people fish. Never again.
Well I had a sea lion sneak up benhind me and grab my fin once and pull me backwards for a couple of feet, i though i was lunch for Mr White. I swear that sea lion was laughing. My scream of holy terror must have made him laugh so hard he let go. lol