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DCI and freediving
- Thread startersebastien murat
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I hope no one was watching
No, thank goodness. Which is also why I didn't want to be even remotely hypoxic. My own stupidity never ceases to amaze me, but I find the thought of drowning in a bowl of cold water embarrassing. Even Saint Peter would laugh at me.
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I have a final theory for you (after looking at hundreds of HR profiles):
Ascent tachycardia (DR reversal/loss) seems to develop especially when the DR isn't strong to begin with, for whatever reason. This would suggest that some divers are at a greater risk of developing SWB, because all other things considered, they aren't able to establish a sufficient clamp on their circulation. Of course, this means that if you want to minimize the risk you need to increase your tolerance (time/dose) of hypoxia. To achieve that you should aim to lower your metabolic rate as much as practicably possible.
Ascent tachycardia (DR reversal/loss) seems to develop especially when the DR isn't strong to begin with, for whatever reason. This would suggest that some divers are at a greater risk of developing SWB, because all other things considered, they aren't able to establish a sufficient clamp on their circulation. Of course, this means that if you want to minimize the risk you need to increase your tolerance (time/dose) of hypoxia. To achieve that you should aim to lower your metabolic rate as much as practicably possible.
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omega3
Guest
Looks like a lot of thought has gone into this topic of which I always believed a myth!(save the claims of one South African years ago after many suposed repets)
If DCI is an issue in freediving why no chamber on site(for such a big event) and why airlift this Herbert fella? Says it all really.
Probably blew his sinus' out rupturing the arterioles on the way down!
If DCI is an issue in freediving why no chamber on site(for such a big event) and why airlift this Herbert fella? Says it all really.
Probably blew his sinus' out rupturing the arterioles on the way down!
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omega3
Guest
Obviously more than a life.
Helps maintain the unprofessional status no end. The element of crazy/stupid dangerous that draws the crowds gets a boost which helps marketing mind. Everyone loves a risk taker.
That is, if it is a real issue.
I still believe it to be myth.
Helps maintain the unprofessional status no end. The element of crazy/stupid dangerous that draws the crowds gets a boost which helps marketing mind. Everyone loves a risk taker.
That is, if it is a real issue.
I still believe it to be myth.
Can you explain what leads you to thinking it is a myth? There are hundreds of well documented cases of DCI among freedivers and plenty of medical studies, so why do you believe they are all wrong?
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omega3
Guest
try again, second time round!
If DCI is an issue in freediving why no chamber on site(for such a big event) and why airlift this Herbert fella? Says it all really.
@ Sebastien. I do not believe the earth to be flat. Remember that the earth revolves around the sun is still just a "theory"
Better to be armed with facts than suppositions/assumptions etc. that may mask the real issues
@ Trux. 1oo's? Where? genuine proven cases and treatments, evidence. Apart from freedive websites this info seems to be scarce.
@ Mullins. Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit...and it is lost on you. see "Whats a chamber worth now days"
Sincerely, I am all ears. Computer models and supposition after guessing for no detailed accounts do not cut it when dealing with DCI that has so many unknows its a game of chance.
Well, no myths dispelled with the above answers today.
I will trump the "catch-up" with a wake up.
Here is why,and who am I to question?
If as Trux says, 100's of proven DCI cases etc not withstanding "I'm feeling a bit dicky after that one" and back to my original line of question.
Why no chamber onsite and why airlift at an organised event?
I would expect to see chambers at all events and professional/business/represented standings if this were the case.
Next and what if, treatment tables, signs and symptoms and omitted deco.
Operaters.
Bearing in mind the last thing anyone would like to do is put someone on a table for no reason and not treat the actual problem.
It goes on, and the implications are ...
As I said before "everyone loves a risk taker" ...lol, look at me coming onto the freediving section!
If DCI is an issue in freediving why no chamber on site(for such a big event) and why airlift this Herbert fella? Says it all really.
@ Sebastien. I do not believe the earth to be flat. Remember that the earth revolves around the sun is still just a "theory"
Better to be armed with facts than suppositions/assumptions etc. that may mask the real issues
@ Trux. 1oo's? Where? genuine proven cases and treatments, evidence. Apart from freedive websites this info seems to be scarce.
@ Mullins. Sarcasm may be the lowest form of wit...and it is lost on you. see "Whats a chamber worth now days"
Sincerely, I am all ears. Computer models and supposition after guessing for no detailed accounts do not cut it when dealing with DCI that has so many unknows its a game of chance.
Well, no myths dispelled with the above answers today.
I will trump the "catch-up" with a wake up.
Here is why,and who am I to question?
If as Trux says, 100's of proven DCI cases etc not withstanding "I'm feeling a bit dicky after that one" and back to my original line of question.
Why no chamber onsite and why airlift at an organised event?
I would expect to see chambers at all events and professional/business/represented standings if this were the case.
Next and what if, treatment tables, signs and symptoms and omitted deco.
Operaters.
Bearing in mind the last thing anyone would like to do is put someone on a table for no reason and not treat the actual problem.
It goes on, and the implications are ...
As I said before "everyone loves a risk taker" ...lol, look at me coming onto the freediving section!
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omega3
Guest
You just did, as to its merit, anyones guess!
Irony!
You should see my new business model I'm working on. It will only work however if it can address a real issue!
The grass may be greener on the other side, sitting on a fence only gives one a sore butt.
Irony!
You should see my new business model I'm working on. It will only work however if it can address a real issue!
The grass may be greener on the other side, sitting on a fence only gives one a sore butt.
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I am all ears too and I am sure others too, but unfortunately you are not (yet) saying much omega3, apart from stirring the water (which is also useful sometimes when constructive).
Apart perhaps from asking the wrong people for answers about another person's private record attempt and his choices/risk assessment. On top of that, this person is (as far as we know) currently undergoing treatment for DCI.
Also it's a fact (as far as anyone can tell) that he had undergone treatment in the hyperbaric chamber in Athens - this was the published plan in case of DCI from the beginning as far as I remember and it was rehearsed prior to the attempt. Maybe it was a bad plan/choice after all or maybe it was great, who knows, but this does not mean or prove anything about the existence of DCI and freediving.
Do you freedive our of curiosity? Maybe you could try in practice breaking some of the empirical limits that others have reported on freediving forums and report back whether you feel any DCI symptoms or not? :t
From Herbert blog:
"From the point where Markus reached the surface, to arriving in the harbor, 9 minute only have elapsed – a great performance. For today, this is where we stopped the drill. But on Wednseday, there will be an evac plane ready to take off and fly at low altitude to Athens and a recompression chamber, should anything happen to Herb.'
http://www.herbertnitsch.com/blog/j1/
Since this thread is a discussion among free divers concerning the mitigation and management of a problem some of them have direct physical experience of and have devoted considerable time to researching. And for whom it is no longer an hypothesis but an experiential reality: I propose that Omega3 - who questions the premise of the thread and who ostensibly is either unwilling to accept, or unwilling explore the weight of evidence, both scientific and experiential, as regards the possibility of DCS in free diving - start another thread where you can pursue information and opinions about the reality of DCS in free diving, or not. I might also suggest a search of these forums on the subject.
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I know exactly what you're saying, sarcasm and all - and it's ridiculous. Herbert's organisational setup did not value the cost of a chamber above that of a life. As with any safety setup, they would have weighed the chance of it saving his life (compared with the alternatives, like low-altitude evac) against the cost. Fairly sure you're just trolling here though.
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omega3
Guest
Seriously Chrismar?
How many hours of google to obtain that link?
In the big picture without getting too caught up in the detail and including some broad generalisations(I appologise in advance if I go off on too many tangents) where to start?
The original post, DCI in freediving
Sebastion brings some info to the table. It is his view and somewhat evidenced. That is not to say it is wrong...or right. I do think well done to him for putting it out there for discussion. It is interesting no doubt and could well prove the ability to conduct a dive in a safer manner.
DCI... Diagnosis of which is an artform in itself. Seriously, this is a big factor and often evident post mortem.How many of these cases are correctly diagnosed? Treatment is a whole new boardgame.
Documented cases...next to none. Really, pearl divers in the 50`s. See Japanese journal of hyperbaric medicine 2001 and tell me that is not vague.
Bill, you are absolutely correct. This is a worldwide occurance and it is scandelous for any commercial/professional body to operate this way I believe.
Fondueset the relevant evidence is either not found, not there or in a safe somewhere, not disseminated yet, well by me anyway. Which neither proves or dissproves a theory. To say it is and carry on from there can also mask an issue. To assume unwilling, no, unable at present and by no means is that saying I could do anything useful with it.
Simos, at 43 and believing age to be a major contributing factor to DCI I wont be sailing down that route.
Mullins, unashamedly a slight troll, but I couldnt resist with the topic headline. Thats a big assumption on Herberts team are you affiliated?. Credit to the guy but I am thinking circus. We are talking about record breaking here.
Let me know when you want chambers. Rent or buy I can hook you up!
For me it would be a tough decision to treat a suspected case of DCI with recompression and I hope I never have to make it.
Apologies for omitting any dodgy humour.
How many hours of google to obtain that link?
In the big picture without getting too caught up in the detail and including some broad generalisations(I appologise in advance if I go off on too many tangents) where to start?
The original post, DCI in freediving
Sebastion brings some info to the table. It is his view and somewhat evidenced. That is not to say it is wrong...or right. I do think well done to him for putting it out there for discussion. It is interesting no doubt and could well prove the ability to conduct a dive in a safer manner.
DCI... Diagnosis of which is an artform in itself. Seriously, this is a big factor and often evident post mortem.How many of these cases are correctly diagnosed? Treatment is a whole new boardgame.
Documented cases...next to none. Really, pearl divers in the 50`s. See Japanese journal of hyperbaric medicine 2001 and tell me that is not vague.
Bill, you are absolutely correct. This is a worldwide occurance and it is scandelous for any commercial/professional body to operate this way I believe.
Fondueset the relevant evidence is either not found, not there or in a safe somewhere, not disseminated yet, well by me anyway. Which neither proves or dissproves a theory. To say it is and carry on from there can also mask an issue. To assume unwilling, no, unable at present and by no means is that saying I could do anything useful with it.
Simos, at 43 and believing age to be a major contributing factor to DCI I wont be sailing down that route.
Mullins, unashamedly a slight troll, but I couldnt resist with the topic headline. Thats a big assumption on Herberts team are you affiliated?. Credit to the guy but I am thinking circus. We are talking about record breaking here.
Let me know when you want chambers. Rent or buy I can hook you up!
For me it would be a tough decision to treat a suspected case of DCI with recompression and I hope I never have to make it.
Apologies for omitting any dodgy humour.
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Somehow u Made a few valid points, if you leave the slightl troll attitude out this can be a very usefull discussion.
Let's try. if those freediver cases are not DCI what do you think they might be?