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Don't start QiGong without a master/grandmaster

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gerard

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Oct 3, 2002
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Hi guys,

I have started this ancient Chinese energy exercise when I experienced first hand its effects:

1. Increased nervous state.

2. Insomnia.

3. Increased number of trigger points in my back, and increased pain level.

4. Increased "libido" levels near obsession.

Well guys, QiGong is serious stuff which should be only started under the guidance of a skilled and experienced master/grandmaster with a minimum of 10 years of experience.

QiGong or Chi Gung 'travels through the nerves, and consequently its is the nerves that are potentially most at risk from incorrect Chi Gung practice' (Frantzis, B.K. p. 152)

Quoting the same author:

'Every message from the brain to the body, and vice versa, goes through the central nervous system. When practicing direct manipulation of the central nervous system, three precautions must be taken: (1) practice must be done within the proper limits, or the nerves will be damaged; (2) new pathways must lead to health and well being, not towards illness; and (3) the body must have enough time to balance out all these new inputs, so that the signal does not get scrambled -going too fast can cause serious problems for both the mind and body, as well as lead o hallucinations...It has been proven consistently in China that Chi Gung, if practiced correctly, can bring about a reversal of internal organ malfunctions and can relieve all manner of stress by increasing the strength of the nerves. If done incorrectly, however, it can instead actualy increase stress or damage organs. Just as a mechanic, using the same tools, can damage a car as easily as fix it'.

QiGong should be practiced, I repeat, for begginers under the close supervision of a good QiGong teacher (which is hard to find, even in China). Once you develop a bug (like myself) you need th master to correct the problem otherwise you end up getting sick (my insomnia).

Eric Fattah recommend on this board a bad book which is "The way of energy" by master Lam Kam Suen. Despite being signed by a master I believe that this books gives you only part of the information due to cultural reasons, or it has been edited by a ignorant businessman, therefore linguistic barriers interfered with the final message. QiGong is serious stuff in the sense that it is part of Taoism. Taoists are generally highly developed spiritually, and consider the development of spiritual life to trascend time, space, and culture (Frantzis, B.K. p. 155). Therefore Westerners are not welcome in China and Chinese methodology due to the way they have been treated (Chinese), so its understandable that QiGong is not well taught even by Masters. It's a well kept secret that can go really wrong in bad hands, i.e. myself and others.

For beginners I recommend:

Opening the energy gates of your body by B.K. Frantzis

Plus the guidance of a true master or grandmaster (this one if you experience the miracle of being taught by one). True teachers are the ones who (and according to Frantzis):

1. Mentally and emotionally clear and possess physical well-being.

2. Minimum of ten years of practice.

3. Well balanced psychologically, which means they are open-minded, open-hearted, and generous of spirit, therefore you have a much better chance of getting the story straight. If they are not, and use information as a carrot to entice you, their neuroses may keep them from giving out the real stuff.

Dangers of QiGong (examples taken from the aforementioned book):

1. Too much Chi is painful. Building chi in the lower tantien will force chi below it and into your genitals. This will break the natural energetic seal between the middle and lower burners leaving the middle burner in total disarray, with the end result of having mental and physical problems, including involuntary semen emisssions and hallucinations. If this happens you may need three years of Bai Hwa, and a herbal master to bring you back to normal. This happened in China, just imagine if this happened elsewhere? Slim chances he'd have recovered. reality is that even in China people die from bad QiGong practices.

2. Packing Chi. a common technique is packing energy into your body. This involves forceful breathing, body contractions, and a sense of physical and energetic strength. By overdoing it Hung I Hsiang's brother caused one of his lungs to hemorrhage, and died.

3. Vibrating Chi (Crane styles). A student of Tai Chi Chuan learned a form that involved vibrating the mind, body, and breath. He was only a teenager, but he wanted to increase the pace, what happened:

"After 2 and 1/2 years of training, he developed the ability to discharge energy on a crude level, and he felt he was really coming along. Unfortunately, he also began to notice the following side effects:

1. Frightening hallucinations of his consciousness leaving his body and drifting uncontrollably away.

2. Feeling that things were moving much faster that they actually were (dangerous while driving)

3. Feeling his body become stiffer and stiffer internally (gee, I also feel that, but just a tiny bit)

4. Developing a thirst for power

5. Feeling constantly hyper, unable to calm down (it reminds my personal case)

6. Experiencing involuntary body spasms.

Finally it's crucial learning with a teacher because proper body alignment (or the right body mechanics adopted during the static or dynamic Qigong) will facilitate Chi flow in and out of the meridians (your body). Wrong alignment will cause Chi to get trapped (it forms bugs) in certain areas, therefore health problems will quickly arise (it happened to me lately, which forced me to quit QiGong until i learn it properly under the right supervision).


I hope those of you involved with QiGong learn from these lines and correct any mistakes before it's too late. I only practiced for a month. What would have happened if I did it for a year or two. Oh, my God it's frightening. Energy can be good but also really destructive.

Please be careful with your decision, it's your life.

Good luck, gerard.
 

loopy

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Oct 24, 2002
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Originally posted by gerard
4. Increased "libido" levels near obsession.

And all this time I thought it was something in the water...
 

efattah

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Mar 2, 2001
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When I first started chi-gong, I also abandoned the practice after 2 months for the same reasons Gerard described.

However, I then spoke to master Richard Mooney over e-mail, and he told me that I had ignored the most important detail in Paul Dong's book (which was the book I was following).

The book stated simply:
- For every 10 minutes of standing meditation, you must finish your practice with 10 minutes (or more) of sitting meditation

So, if you stand for 60 minutes, you must practice 60 minutes of sitting meditation, and not just any sitting meditation, but in the exact method described.

I tried this and it worked. The excessive libido disappeared, and I could sleep again, and the spasms went away. I then practiced for 2 more years without problems.

Unfortunately, the detail about the sitting meditation is not included in the 'Way of Energy' book. However, the 'way of energy' book describes the actual standing meditation much better than Paul Dong's book 'Empty Force.'

By the way, master Richard Mooney offers a correspondance 'course' for something like $150 where you get up to several telephone conversations and e-mails with him to watch over your progress. I never signed up for this but it's because I haven't had problems lately.

Concerning the 'increased trigger points in the back'...
Personally, I began 'spasming' during my standing meditation, and these spasms seemed to originate in my lower back. In my opinion, these trigger points were not created by the chi-gong, but they were always there, and only revealed by the chi-gong. Also, after 3 months of practicing the spasming disappeared, along with the trigger points, but working on the computer for a few months without practicing the chi-gong, the trigger points came back, and then disappeared again after practicing for a while.

Eventually, near the end of my 2.5 years of intensive practice, I could stand completely still for some time, without any movement at all, not even micro-movements. This felt amazing.

Ironically, this morning I had ordered 'Opening the Energy Gates of your body' before even reading Gerard's post.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

gerard

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Oct 3, 2002
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Originally posted by efattah
The book stated simply:
- For every 10 minutes of standing meditation, you must finish your practice with 10 minutes (or more) of sitting meditation


Eric, can you please send me an email or PM with the exact description of the sitting meditation? I'll really appreciate it.

Originally posted by efattah
Unfortunately, the detail about the sitting meditation is not included in the 'Way of Energy' book. However, the 'way of energy' book describes the actual standing meditation much better than Paul Dong's book 'Empty Force.'

Eric sorry if I sound a bit to harsch but after reading Frantzis's book you'll realise that the Way of Energy and other books are just giving you the scraps of Taoism.

Standing Meditation is not just about visualization and putting up with pain, or imagining holding dull balloons or hanging of the sky and other Hong-Kong imaginery. Taoism and QiGong, Ba Gua, Taiji Chuan, etc. as its forms are a well kept secret which is slowly fading from China (and the Earth) due to the stupid Comunism.

Frantzis will give you only part of the secret -logical since he spen ten years in China learning from a Grandmaster- of QiGong. If you want the whole thing is better getting the advice of someone who has been in touch with a Taoist or with a Taoist itself.

Gee, "Opening the Energy Gates of your Body" is not a commercial book, that's why it stands out. It will teach you how to stand properly in the basic standing position. Some masters use solely this position as part of their training. You won't even need to hold the balloon at all. What counts is what we are trying to achieve which is as the title says: opening the energy gates of your body, and discharge that energy (chi) from both ends of the body (crown of the head and feet).

Anyway I believe direct and good supervision are a must, otherwise Eric you can easily make a mistake and stuff up your health (and life). And even getting the reight posture is quite complex. You'll see when you read the book.

BTW I'm looking forward to visit the Western mountains of China once I graduate. I want to learn proper Qigong over there. Freediving then will be some much easier.

Originally posted by efattah
Eventually, near the end of my 2.5 years of intensive practice, I could stand completely still for some time, without any moveme
nt at all, not even micro-movements. This felt amazing.


Eric this is not the point of qigong and its philosophy, far from that is canalising and strenghtening chi, not the physical body which is only a barrier to reach Kundalini, Karma, Nirvana or whatever name you want to give.


Originally posted by efattah
Ironically, this morning I had ordered 'Opening the Energy Gates of your body' before even reading Gerard's post.

Eric I have the feeling that we'll meet one day:)



Regards, gerard.
 

gerard

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Oct 3, 2002
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I forgot

Originally posted by gerard
Frantzis will give you only part of the secret -logical since he spent ten years in China learning from a Grandmaster- of QiGong. If you want the whole thing is better getting the advice of someone who has been in touch with a Taoist or with a Taoist itself.

And not even a Taoist will reveal you the secret of cosmic energy unless you are prepared to learn Chinese and show a deep interest and respect towards the traditional Chinese values.

It's a really hard goal but I think is worth it. I wouldn't mind to quit freediving, swimming, weightlifting, bla, bla, bla, in order to learn these ancient Chinese internal martial arts. Later on when is time to catch up I'll be ready to dive with no fear, no obstacles, no depth limits. But this is another barrier which Qigong will eliminate, who knows???

Regards, gerard.
 

laminar

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2001
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A Note on China

Hi Gerard,

I offer these comments only as something to ponder.

I speak Mandarin Chinese (although I am not Chinese myself) and went to China to study in 1997. By chance, my Chinese roommate in Beijing took me to a Qi Gong school in mid-eastern China (Ezhou, near Wuhan on the Yangzi River) over Chinese New Year. I met many QiGong practicioners (hundreds). I really had no idea what it was at the time. My roommate had explained it a little and showed me some exercises. When I got sick with a chest cold/flu earlier in the Beijing winter, he tried to help me by "giving me" some QiGong energy.

We reached the QiGong school where I was to spend a week with him. Immediately, I was welcomed (of course it helps if you speak the language) and before long I met the grandmaster of the school. (A spitting image of Mao Zedong/TseTung!) :D A lot of very weird, very strange things went on at that school, nothing bad, just bizarre. But in the end, I was asked to bring the art of QiGong back to Canada as an ambassador of sorts. And then the Grandmaster himself gave me some QiGong energy ( a tap on the head), the same energy that over 1,000 people had traveled from all over China to receive. Then I was asked to sing some karaoke. :duh

I relate this anecdote only because people here in the West (myself included) tend to misunderstand the Chinese people and their culture and make assumptions based on old stereotypes and b-movies. The old story of the secretive inner martial art that is only passed down within a family and is off-limits except to the most persistent and humble foreigner is rooted in history, but China is changing rapidly, and these romantic ideas just get in the way of experiencing the Chinese culture.

The Chinese have a saying: "Be a Confucian during the work week, and a Taoist on the weekend, and a Buddhist when you need something." A nice bit or irreverance for ten thousand years of history and tradition!

It is a country full of individuals, just like any other.

I'm sure if you were patient, well-meaning, honest, patient, respectful and committed (as you say), you could find a teacher in China.

I appreciate your words of caution, though. The body is a vibrant thing that can do strange things if used in the wrong way. (just look at all the problems 'modern life' has caused in people).

As for the secret of cosmic energy--there is no secret except that it is there and it is not there. Depends on your point of view.

Pete
Vancouver, BC
 

gerard

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Oct 3, 2002
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Laminar

Of course there are individuals, but you won't find the real stuff unless you know what you are doing with your inner self. Even in China is difficult to find a good teacher. If I find that person here in Oz I won't be going there anyway. What for? Qi gong is not about getting its wonderful effects by words of someone who claims to be a grandmaster. I have my doubts that true grandmasters exist at all. You can practice qi gong in Antarctica if you do it properly, something hard to do -or even impossible- alone. For instance try to do "cloud hands" or "the eight forms" without instruction. It'll be an impossible task to accomplish without hands-on teaching.

Qi gong comes from within but you need to learn from someone who can correct your mistakes, which will be many if you are a beginner, otherwise you'll harm your body. Just look at me or Eric Fattah and thousands of others.

Anyway I doubt the people you saw in China were dissolving their internal blockades or canalising qi at all. It's like may of the try-hards I see in Brisbane practicing Taiji Chuan without knowing that it's only a 10% of the real thing. They use it as a kind of a dance rather than as an internal martial art.

Many people practise these martial arts just as a way of meeting other people, or even chatting up with the opposite sex.

Regards, gerard.
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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A Master May be Close

During my 2.5 year period of chi-gong, where I barely missed a day, near the end wonderful things began to happen. Not only did I have flashes where I felt 'one with the universe' and 'empty', but at one point, with my eyes closed, I became aware or 'saw' a deceased master standing near me, and watching over me. I was outside, under the stars, and I had already been standing for over an hour. This was one of those lucky days when I had reached that state of 'one with the universe' and my mind was empty. Suddenly I realized there was a man standing in front of me, only a few feet away, to the left a little. He was about 5'6", he was wearing a blue satin kung-fu uniform, and he had his hands clasped behind his back. He was facing me, watching, motionless. At that moment I knew that he had been there from the very first day of my practice, the day when I decided I dearly wanted to learn this art--I'm sure he had been there since the beginning, even though it took more than 2 years before I became aware of him. I sensed his patience was infinite--he would never tire of standing there and watching. And although he never spoke to me in words, I felt that he spoke to me through my own intuition, and he was probably why I was able to find solutions to the initial problems in my practice (and I had many more problems, other than Gerard described, later on as the months passed, but I overcame them).

Eventally, I became too curious, and I opened my eyes--of course there was no one visible to the physical eye.

There is an ancient saying, 'When the study is ready the master will appear.'

So, a master may be closer than you think.



Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
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efattah

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Sorry, the saying is 'When the student is ready, the master will appear.'


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
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gerard

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Eric

I warn you -and with all my deepest respect towards a fellow freediver- you must be very careful with what you're doing. Practicing in the evening is bad, and suffering hallucinations may lead you to insanity. That's why qi gong can be very dangerous.

Why don't you meet a master or a teacher with a minimum of ten years of experience. From what I have read I think you have learned basically by yourself. Stop it and meet someone in your area so he can teach you properly. Another hin Frantzis says that feeling of power is one of the negative side effects of wrongfully applied qi gong.

Take care, gerard.
 

JimGlynn

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Jan 16, 2002
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"I warn you -and with all my deepest respect towards a fellow freediver- you must be very careful with what you're doing. Practicing in the evening is bad, and suffering hallucinations may lead you to insanity. That's why qi gong can be very dangerous."

I am sorry, but I have to chime in here.I have been practicing martial arts for twenty years now under the instruction of one of the most respected Asian masters in the world and have seen and heard everything but this takes the cake. The idea that training at night and suffering hallucinations will lead to insanity is ludicrous. That is like saying that freediving at night will make you go blind. I have seen people overtrain and become disoriented but I have never seen or even heard of someone losing it because of practicing at night.

As far as what you read in books, 90% is myth to sell the allure. We all want to believe that martial arts training whether its internal, external, etc. has some mystical quality that will be bestowed upon the righteous. Is this true? To some extent yes, but it is so much more subtle than these "masters" turned authors portray it to be. Its just like freediving- to ousiders we seem like we are part fish because many people cannot even relate to what we do. We know the truth but still giggle inside.The same can be said about the benefits gained from training under a competent, qualified teacher. The right instructor can make all the difference. Realize , however , that even the best teachers are only able to "share" the art with you. The instructor training program I went through took over two years and I had to write 43 papers in addition to attending the special "trainee" classes. I could not imagine only having books for instruction. Is that because it would be too dangerous? No, because it would be a huge waste of time.

To sum up- martial arts training, regardless of the style, is best undertaken with a competent instructor who can not only demonstrate proper technique but can also constantly correct you and make the small adjustments to posture, tension,etc. Beware of any "master" who is willing to teach you through a correspondence course. That idea makes me cringe.

I am no master, but I do know enough to firmly stand by my statements. I hope I have dispelled some myths and I am sorry if I sound harsh, but the martial arts world is full of snake oil salesmen.
Jim
 

efattah

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Mar 2, 2001
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Whether or not to seek a teacher in any discipline is a difficult and complicated choice.

When I decided I wanted to try for a freediving record, I specifically did not seek out a coach. If I had a coach, and set a record, then I would be forever in debt to my coach, for the rest of my life. I don't like being in debt to other people -- you become karmically entagled and you are no longer free in life, because you always 'owe' something to someone else. You may not even be able to divulge your trainer's 'secrets', if he or she commands you not to.

One day I hope to write a book about freediving which others can follow, WITHOUT A COACH, and reach great heights in the sport. Sure, there are always risks, such as lung trauma, and proper safety procedures/buddies must be in place, but at best the book can explain these risks & procedures.

The same goes with chi-gong. Grand master Shou-Yu Liang lives less than an hour away. Sure, I could approach him, and no doubt he would make sure all went well with my practice. But that would defeat the entire point of the practice.

There are not enough masters to teach 6 billion people. Further, science will not accept a practice which can only be 'transmitted' by word of mouth and strange rituals.

One day a book will be written about chi-gong, which gives the real knowledge, such that people can learn, with minimal risk, and reach great benefits. Hopefully I will take part in writing that book, but in order for that to happen, someone must be brave enough to learn without a master, and succeed. If I fail and go insane or die, then I died trying to help other people who don't have access to masters.

When the day comes when a chi-gong book is written from which anyone can learn with great benefit and minimal risk, then science will immediately accept the practice, and when that happens, the results & benefits will be transmitted to billions of people. If we stay within the dogma of secret oral transmission, then the art will never reach the masses.

So, in my opinion, the man who seeks out a master is seeking only his own development, and ignoring the billions people who do not have access to masters.

In freediving I succeeded without a master. In chi-gong, maybe I will succeed, or maybe I will die and go insane.

When I was 'initiated' into the transcendental meditation movement, the 'masters' told me never to meditate for more than 20 minutes. Many times I asked them, 'Why not?'. Their response was, 'that information is not available. Never meditate for more than 20 minutes!' Uh, hello? Sorry but if someone tells me not to do something there must be some sort of justification. So, I went home and meditated for 3 hours. And I discovered exactly why you shouldn't meditate for that long -- you get addicted to meditation and want to move into a cave and meditate for all eternity and throw your life away. The effect goes away if stop meditating for a few days. Big deal.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

JimGlynn

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Jan 16, 2002
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"So, in my opinion, the man who seeks out a master is seeking only his own development, and ignoring the billions people who do not have access to masters."

No, the individual who seeks out a master, becomes proficient in the art and shares it with no one else is the selfish one.

Teaching oneself to freedive is not really the same. There is a wealth of pure science to draw from to aid in the process. Unfortunately this is not the case in the martial arts world. It is all full of hearsay and legend. This is evidenced by your meditation question. There is no scientific basis for not meditating more than ten minutes. You yourself knew right away how silly that "rule" was.

I respect what you have done in the freediving world and do not want this to seem that I am dead set against practicing without a teacher. That is far from true. I think its cool that you feel so passionate about your desire to not have a teacher. I just want to let people know who are reading this and considering martial arts training that most of the books out there are very poor quality and one's precious time would be better spent with competent instruction at least past the intermediate level.
Jim
 

efattah

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Mar 2, 2001
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Jim is right -- the fastest, safest and most effective way to learn is to learn from a master/teacher.

However, once you learn from a master, then in order to teach others, you must also teach them in person, which means you can never teach more than maybe 10,000 people (or maybe ?100,000). If you want to teach millions of people, then you must teach them through books. And to write a book which teaches, you yourself must have learned from books.

Again, Jim is right -- the fastest, safest and most effective way to learn is to learn from a master/teacher. That is the fastest way to teach yourself. But the fastest way to teach the entire world is a different question.

Remember, Chi-gong was invented by humans. The first chi-gong practitioner did not have a teacher, and if it were not for him (or them), there would be no chi-gong. So, if, in those ancient days, people were told to never do anything except with the guidance of a master, then chi-gong would have never been invented.

If I had sought out a master/teacher for freediving, then I would never have invented fluid goggles, or the hypothermic diving system, or the passive breath diving system, etc... I'm not saying these inventions are in any way great, but doing things on your own is how innovations are created.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

JimGlynn

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Jan 16, 2002
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Good point, but then the book becomes the master. Remember, martial arts are fighting arts- first and foremost. The techniques were learned through trial and error and then passed down from generation to generation. It is only within the last say 500 yrs that the enormous benefit that can be gained from their practice has been more fully explored. The body loves the training because all the movements follow natural biomechanics and they induce (correct me if I am wrong on this name) beta waves in the brain that evoke pleasure and aid meditation. When practiced correctly and with proper breathing, relaxation, etc. it becomes moving zen. The best way to describe this feeling in relation to freediving is when one is sinking down, completely weightless, yet powerful at the same time. This thread makes me want to do a few forms right now:)
Jim
 

Adrian

Deeper Blue Beachcomber
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Nov 23, 2002
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When I was 'initiated' into the transcendental meditation movement, the 'masters' told me never to meditate for more than 20 minutes. Many times I asked them, 'Why not?'. Their response was, 'that information is not available. Never meditate for more than 20 minutes!'

Eric,

I happen to teach TM as one of my activities. First of all we never consider ourselves or refer to ourselves as "masters". rofl I think you meant it figuratively but I wanted to make this clear. Second, never confuse the knowledge with the individual, the knowledge is valid, but as in all organizarions, some teachers are going to have more experience than others, and that can make a difference to the student. It's such a simple question to answer, and there is nothing mysterious about it, it's just a question of balance. But there are also courses where one meditates many hours daily, sometimes for months on end, but under controlled conditions because that's when you start having really heavy experiences.

Adrian

PS, Did you get my Spanish translation of your Frenzel document?
 

gerard

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Oct 3, 2002
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"I have been practicing martial arts for twenty years..."

Come on JimGlyn don't compare jiujitsu, kempo, aikido, kung-fu, etc. with the internal martial arts such as qi gong, ba gwa, taiji chuan. The first ones are physical whereas the latter are related -as the name indicates- with the inner self, the CNS and the vital energy inside of us. We are talking here about complex neurophysiology and qi, which is ignored by Western science due to utter ignorance.

You don't seem to have grasped the concept either so I finish here my discussion.

Eric, I thought you were I more diligent person but you seem to ignore the main idea of the internal martial art you are practicing. And please don't tell me that the incident you described in your previous post is not a hallucination incident, and let me paste it here:

"Suddenly I realized there was a man standing in front of me, only a few feet away, to the left a little. He was about 5'6", he was wearing a blue satin kung-fu uniform, and he had his hands clasped behind his back. He was facing me, watching, motionless..."

Just think I little bit of your training system"

1. Freediving on the week-ends

2. Endurance training during the week (I ignore frequency)

3. Resistance training during the week too (I ignore frequency)

4. Qi gong (daily).

5. Plus your 5 day (I suppose) a week job

Don't you think you're stressing too much your CNS?

I'm telling you health is everything in life, once you loose it due to pushing your mind and your body to the limit that's it.

You will quickly respond me: piss-off mate, I do what I want, who are you but nothing else that an entity that lurks on the Net. Well, let me say that I have seen many people burning out in their maturity due to excesses done in their "athletic careers" and none of them are healthy today. The funny thing is that many of them knowing what they are doing and getting injured, they still make the same mistakes.

Take care, gerard.
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
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Gerard,

Here you are acting like you know everything, and pretending that you know exactly what I do every day of the week, and you even claim that my incident was a 'hallucination' incident. How can you know, if you were not there? What if I told you that soon after, I could look at an object and make it fly around by just thinking about it? Maybe I leave out the rest of the story because people would think I'm crazy anyway. Sure, as an isolated incident, it's fine to think that it might be a hallucination, but given the events which preceded it and followed it (which I won't even describe), I was convinced that it was not a hallucination. I was convinced. I don't care if you or other people think it was this or that. You HOPE it was a hallucination, because if it wasn't, then it might actually show that I was making progress without following the 'path of the master/student.' It was only a few days ago that you were asking me which exercises to do, in order to develop telepathy.

And, by the way, I don't do anymore endurance training, I don't do anymore resistance training, and I hardly ever do qigong. I started a new type of training. I better keep quiet about it because I'll just get criticized again.

More than anything, I think there is one difference between me and you: I'm happy with my life, I feel healthy, I feel good, I have a positive outlook on life. Which seems the opposite of you.

And, since you are so afraid of burning yourself out, and you want to live forever, then I recommend you follow the 'eight brokades' exercises of Li Ching Yuen, which you can find described in several books. Li Ching Yuen, as I'm sure with your all-encompassing knowledge know, lived to 256 years (1677-1933) before 'disappearing' into the mountains of china. Maybe you will find him on your quest when you go to China.

I think you have some good knowledge to bring to these forums, and I hope you keep posting about it. But, so far, all I have seen you do is attack the training or methods of other people and tell them that they are overtraining, burning out, and so on. This is not constructive.

Did you ever wonder that maybe the reason they reach better results than you is because they might be doing something right? If you saw Brett LeMaster's training program for his 81m record, you would probably have had a heart attack, and yet it obviously worked for him!

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 
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Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
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In my 40 years, I have seen and done a lot of things; some good, some not good. I have become extremely comfortable with a few things: musician, martial artist, freediver, seeker.
Mostly I know that I am capable of being reasonably good at the things that interest me...that's enough for me :)
One thing I have become very good at is picking out the people that will not last.
After a few years of martial arts training, or running, or weight training, or scuba instructing, it's easy to see those who will burn out fast: they buy all the cool gear, get all the right books, show up with the latest and greatest information or methodology, and can be very positive and can be very outspoken about the hobby/pastime/activity, and the "masters" involved.
Then something happens which is extremely predictable in this sort of person. They shit all over anyone who has actually accomplished anything in said hobby/pastime/activity then quit....just fade away usually, but not before decrying that this activity is "full of assholes", the "teacher is a jerk." This is followed by any number of excuses to stop training or practicing.
Most of us who have achieved anything that takes dedication have seen something analogous to a White Belt in martial arts who, after 2 months of training, suddenly is an expert on the art: he reads a few books or breaks a board- gets the taste of power, talks no end about it, then quits once the heat actually gets turned up.
My point is this: if you have had a taste of something wonderful, then keep eating it....for a long time, before you start telling others how or what to eat. At least have something under your belt to show that you are capable of achieving the professed result of that which you speak. If you need a master, then look for someone who leads by example, freely gives information and refuses to be called "master". As soon as you hear "you're not ready to learn this yet", then run like hell- this is someone who wants to gain power by controlling you. He/she understands nothing about true power.
"Listen to those who who are hardest to hear"
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 
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