Don't start QiGong without a master/grandmaster

[Fondueset]

Qigong etc.

Just discovered this fascinating thread. I have practiced Old Yang Style Taijiquan for a few years - and before that many years of intense asana work in hatha yoga. I'm familiar with Frantzis' work as well as that of Yang, Jwing Ming, Charles Luk and others. Also Erle Montaigue - from whom I've learned the Taiji I currently practice.

Much of the Qigong and Kundalini literature is fraught with cautionary and alarming comments. It is my opinion that the dangers of these methods are greatly amplified, if not created, as a function of the intent with which one enters into them. I am aquainted with a person who has had a very powerful awakening which fits all the criteria of classic Kundalini stuff - but also goes a bit beyond the 'states' orientation that typifies alot of the kundalini literature. To say it has been unproblematic for her would be an understatement.

Personally i've not done much static qigong - but I do practice Taijiquan outdoors year-round regardless of weather - my favorite time to practice is at night - under moonlight. The greatest danger so far has been skunks - who seem very much attracted to these sorts of practices.

I'd like to know if Eric does any work with Pranayama - and what sorts of practices you do currently. Do you still work with Qigong?

Feel free to pm or email me directly.

 

[gerard]

Re: Qigong etc.

Originally posted by Fondueset
Much of the Qigong and Kundalini literature is fraught with cautionary and alarming comments. It is my opinion that the dangers of these methods are greatly amplified, if not created, as a function of the intent with which one enters into them

Hi, I don't think so.

Working with qi is the same as playing with fire. If you don't know what you're doing you can get burnt, and the burns can even be worse than fire.

The problem with Qigong is that people think too much when they do it, don't focus in proper breathing and emptying the mind, and above all achieve a total relaxation state. What happens is that they force qi in the wrong channels (usually the head) it get's stuck there, adn the result is that they have too much Yang in their bodies (overheating). Thus, physical and psychological problems start to develop. Also doing too much too quickly will promote an imbalanced state within the body (too much Yang).

So in Qigong (Zhan Zhuang training/standing like a tree) the less the better, like homeopathy.

And about Kundalini, I personally wouldn't recommend it without close supervision since you can end up like a patient that my master treated in his early practice. Here are his words:


"I remember treating a "Kundalini burnout" patient very early in my Qigong training - this guy had lost all of his left brain functions and couldn't do any linear functions at all. He was really miserable and was living a life that he described as "just existing."

It's hard to say in such an instance whether the person started out so imbalanced and the Kundalini Yoga just amplified it to the point of collapse, or if he was not taught correctly.

The stories of this sort are way too common to be dismissed. I can think of several more just off the top of my head.

Personally, I think you have to be a little 'nuts' to explore something as weird as Qigong in the first place. This is why, as an instructor, I am extremely particular about who I will teach. At this point I only teach privately to a very select few.

I think a good argument can be made for the idea that people drawn to such disciplines have innate abilities that need to be developed and carefully cultivated.

As to where to draw the line? A left-brained answer would take at least a medium-sized book. The right-brained answer is that a competant instructor must be able to see the student (in the Castaneda/Don Juan sense) to determine if he/she is ready to pursue the discipline.

I suppose my favorite analogy is that of a stick in the ground. A small stick placed just a bit off of perfectly vertical will be just fine. If you take a Sequoia tree sized stick with the same degree of off-centeredness, it's very much more likely to fall over.

In this analogy, it is the Qigong, and particularly the Nei Gong practice that converts the little stick into a Sequoia. A good teacher will make sure the stick is centered, balanced and has a good solid root before applying the "fertilizer" of advanced disciplines."


I am not saying that Qigong or Kundalini are intrinsically dangerous, what I mean is that working with energy and the mind that guides it (Yi) is a very fragile kind of work that can have negative consequences because they tap into more subtle realms of energy that if not handled carefully will overload the practitioner.

What I mean is that this kind of work is nothing like going to the gym or riding a bicycle. That stuff is far more complex than what you may think.


I hope I have clarified this thread. I also have to apologise because when I first started it I had far less knowledge than today. I should have entitled the thread:

Make sure when you start Qigong you are closely supervised by a more experienced practitioner. Of course forget about practising Iron Shirt Qigong alone. That would be like slowly (or rapidly depending of how much you practice it) killing yourself.

 

[Fondueset]

Okay

As I understand it - Kundalini refers to a certain evolutionary movement in the organism - not a specific form of practice. Kundalini Yoga is a more or less forceful way of attempting to 'awaken' this energy.

The person to whom I am referring has never practiced such Yoga. It would be more accurate to say that she IS kundalini - than to say she practices it. As I indictated - it is not problematic. The phenomenology of 'kundalini' - health, states, powers etc. is utterly secondary.

In fact - she read this thread and responded *

"Being happy "just existing" as a problem--
It is good to have such problems."

She's a big fan of free diving.


I think it is reasonable to consider that practices such as Kundalini - and Qigong are attempts to emulate and or restore/recognize ('know again') the mechanics of our relationship to what is. With that as a premise it seems likely that such processes can awaken on their own - as a function of what we are - without the presumption of a problem and all the attendant self-consciousness that goes with it. Which is not to fault the practices - but identification with them is simply more of the same.

Your cautionary notes are well-taken, of course.

*she's even been 'acknowleged' by a 'master'!!!!:duh

 

[gerard]

Re: Okay

Originally posted by Fondueset
With that as a premise it seems likely that such processes can awaken on their own - as a function of what we are - without the presumption of a problem and all the attendant self-consciousness that goes with it. Which is not to fault the practices - but identification with them is simply more of the same.

I doubt that opening the third eye or Enlightenment can be awakened by doing nothing for the average person. Different question is you were meant be gifted right from birth like Gautama or the Christ.

And baout your girlfriend she's probably gifted but not everyone is like her. Therefore I posted thinking on the average mortal.

 

[Fondueset]

A reasonable reply


It is interesting to know such people. I seem to have met several of them. They are great fun to hang out with.
It can be interesting to shift your perspective relative to method from the linear one that most 'systems' come packaged with to the idea of practices as portals or doorways. Like - with these things - we are 'steeping' ourselves in timelessness.

But anyway - this forums about freediving - (which I hope to do some of today in my humble way -now that the sun has emerged again)