European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[Mr. X]

Keep it up Sunfish, great work.
At the UN, Vegitarianism is mentioned there as the diet for the human of the future.

I don't think vegetarianism would go far enough for them. There are a lot of animal welfare issues around dairy production (what happens to all the male off spring?! How do they keep the cows producing milk?!) and egg production (battery, protein sources, antibiotics). They'd need to aim higher -- veganism! Good luck with that

 

[Kars]

Vegitarianism is not aimed at improving the wellfair of the lifestock, neither for the wellfair of the earth nor the humans. It's ment for control purposes. Just like the Egyptians and other Civalizations gave their workers a low proteine diet millenia before Christ.

I have been a vegan for about 2,5 years. It helped tremendously to clean up my body, get rid of toxins and create silence in my body and mind. Just a year ago I started eating some high quality biological meat and cheese, because I noticed I had too little energy and too little proteine to grow more muscle for freediving. Now I eat some meat smoked, salted bacon. Appart from more energy and muscle I notice that my mind becomes quicker and feelings are stronger, especially when threads to me or my fellow man occure.

Delivering the postmail I got attacked by a loose dog about a month ago. In a flash my instincts kicked in, dropped the mail I was carring and with appropiate force, I succesfully fended the dog off with my army boots while maintaining a mental overview of the situation. It gave me a great feeling that lasted for a few days. It is great to learn and experience you can succesfully defend yourself, experience the dorment powers and release that cropped up stress.

Anyway we're floating away from the main topic here

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Mr. X]

...
I have been a vegan for about 2,5 years...I got attacked by a loose dog about a month ago. In a flash my instincts kicked in, dropped the mail I was carring and with appropiate force, I succesfully fended the dog off with my army boots.... It gave me a great feeling that lasted for a few days. It is great to learn and experience you can succesfully defend yourself, experience the dorment powers and release that cropped up stress.
...
Kars

Vegan kicking dogs?! We don't approve of dog kicking here in the UK. Sounds like repressed hunting urge - from a country than bans spear fishing (Holland).

 

[Kars]

It wasn't kicking, the dog jumped against my boot in mid air - twice, and than it remained at a respecteble two metres barking, while one of the neighbours came rushing in to hold the dog, unleashed and known to attack postmen.
I cold have the dog killed (euthanised) if I reported it to the authorities, but didn't.
But I admit that I had thoughts (like a true thoughtcriminal I am) of being more thourow with the next dog that would attack me.
The owner, a middle age women who had just become a widow was in big distress and emotional shock, desperately in a state of panic attempting to make up with me, in fear of loosing the dog too. So I comforted her, and decided not to have it killed, though on a previous occation a few months prior to this one the dog attacked and indeed bit me in my left hand.

About spearfishing being banned here in The Royal Kingdom of the Netherlands, I don't know. What I do know is an aquaintance has inquiered and did not find any law forbidding spearfishing. What is forbiden though is gathering, hunting stuff while on scuba. So maybe you can tell me about that Dutch anti spearfishing law?

Cool we're back onto subject

 

[Mr. X]

...So maybe you can tell me about that Dutch anti spearfishing law?

Cool we're back onto subject

Check out this thread, Kars: http://forums.deeperblue.com/europe-mediterranean/62550-dutch-spearos.html

yes there are spearos in Holland but they all go abroad to hunt, as it is illegal to do in the Netherlands. Travelling with a sp-gun can give you a lot of questions at the airport, etc; but travelling and owning is legal only not all custom/police officers know this.

greetz pim

Repressive, liberal culture.

BTW I heard on Radio 4 this morning that the Greens in Germany managed to block the building of nuclear power stations, so ... Germany is now building coal powered stations instead:duh Major victory?!

[Not of a big fan of nuclear power - but seems to me that we need to have it as part of a mix, especially with Russia throwing its toys out of the pram & the state of the Middle East].

 

[mattbarlow]

This seems like a the usual lack of clarity in legislation and we just need to make sure it is worded correctly at the end of the day. Interestingly the dictionary definition of a projectile is "projectile" -noun [C] SPECIALIZED
an object that is thrown or fired forwards, especially from a weapon.

Using this description it would be possible to say that under the new legislation you will not be able to fish using a rod and line; as if you cast the line with a lead: the bait will have been projected by the rod , and as such by definition is a projectile.

A bit of a silly example but I think you get my point.

Yes there are one or two individuals around who seem to forget how food arrives on your plate, and that it is a basic human right to be able to feed your family, but thankfully I think there are one or two intelligent politicians around - we just need to find them.

 

[mattbarlow]

Perhaps we need a demonstration, get the TV there, out the Green party with their anti hunting agenda.

Perhaps have some celebrity spokesperson there - maybe Gordon Ramsey, He`ll do it for a couple of 5lb bass.

I can imagine his tv rant now, hope the BBC`s bleep machine is working!

 

[Mr. X]

Exchanged email with Monty at the Scottish Countryside Alliance. He reckons the Scottish Greens are not opposed to hunting & fishing (probably an important source of income up there). Seems like the English & EU Greens are opposed to hunting & fishing though.

People are often unaware (or don't care) that much/most of the woodland & hedgerows left in Britain are maintained primarily or soley as cover for game birds, i.e. by shooters for shooting. No hunting, no woods, no hedgerows, no wildlife. Also, if they ban fishing (spear and/or rod), I'll need to shoot pigeons as my fresh, organic, free-range protein source instead.

 

[agbiv]

Re: European Union Consultation ? Including ban on use of projectiles .

Any legislation on spearing politicians???? They'll field dress like any large mammal and should give a good squirm following the (I really mean political, moral, and/or verbal) skewering? Or just take'em on a cactus drag...

 

[Kars]

With all the suffocating legislation, taxation and other scams, they will become fair game shortly. But in anticipation for that, they know and understand what they are doing, they have and are building a police army and still create more devisions ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ited-councils-spy-neighbours-drop-litter.html ) among the plebs, useless eaters, the cattle, the riff raf, the commoners, the herd, as the like to call the emphatic people going full blown into the Orwellian phase.

Just a short while ago the UK DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE DOCUMENT
Titled - DCDC Global Strategic Trends Programme 2007-2036
(DCDC) stands for Development, Concepts and Doctrine Centre has put out this 90 page document discribing what this think TANK of experts foresee happening in the near future, and what their methods are dealing with the public in the up and comming disasters. How they will deal with peoples -desperate- reactions, including nuking groups of people who try to flee the cities.

http://www.alanwattsentientsentinel.eu/english/articles/strat_trends_23jan07.pdf
Scott Alan Watt goes through this document and does an in-depth talk on pertinent portions of the text.
http://www.alanwattsentientsentinel...urb_PathocratsConspiracyAgena_April132007.mp3

As a mailman I see our F16's weekly practicing bomming runs on a city nearby.

The future does look grimm, as they planning to hit us with every weapon they got.
Time to say NO, and start thinking, before that is being disallowed or disabled.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Mr. X]

The petition deadline passed on the September 23rd, 316 votes total. Quite good considering. I think we picked up a few signatures from the Countryside Alliance & Field Magazine. We are supposed to get a ministerial response, as there were more than 200 signatures. Apparently there will be a reshuffle in the next few weeks - it'd be good a get a response from the new minister rather than the old, if it changes.

 

[Mr. X]

Just read that Hilary Benn remains the minister in charge of DEFRA after today's reshuffle. His pa (nepotism in the Labour ranks? shock, horror) would not have shirked the opportunity to respond with his views. Look forward to reading the response.

 

[sunfish]

Dear David,

Thank you for your email, which Caroline has asked me to respond to on her behalf. The Green Party of England and Wales does have very clear policy on hunting, as you are aware. However, we also recognise that there is a need for special consideration with regard to angling. As a result, in 2005 Green Party conference adopted the following record of policy statement:

1. The Green Party is aware of the popularity of angling as a recreational activity and notes that many anglers combine their interest with a desire to protect the environment. The Party is aware that responsible anglers are also concerned about the bad practices of others and would also wish to see these stopped. This policy addresses the concern of many people that irresponsible anglers are causing undue damage to waterways and surrounding areas and also cause undue harm and suffering to wildlife through careless or uncaring behaviour. It is accepted that this is not always intentional but we trust the following will be accepted as being consistent with a caring society whose aims include environmental sustainability and preservation of natural habitats.

2. The Green Party accepts the finding of the Medway Report that fish do feel pain and will seek to end the practice known as ‘live baiting’ as soon as possible. It will also encourage more awareness of this fact and thus better handling of fish that are taken out of the water. It also hopes that with great awareness people may better understand the pain caused to fish by many current angling practices.

3, The Green Party notes the (often fatal) injury caused to other wildlife by discarding lead shot/weights and will make the use of any lead in angling illegal.

4. The Green Party notes the declining use of barbed hooks and double and triple hooks because of the damage caused to fish, and will make the use of these illegal.

5. The Green Party is concerned about the damage caused to wildlife by carelessly discarded fishing tackle and the costs involved in cleaning it up. To reduce and, it is hoped, eradicate this, the Party will launch a campaign to raise awareness and encourage good practice among anglers. The campaign should be conducted via advertising in angling journals, posters, advertisements on TV, radio and newspapers and through angling clubs. The campaign will be paid for from a minimum of 5% of the revenue raised by the environment agency on fishing licences. It is hoped that producers of angling programmes on television will also play their part in raising awareness for the common good.

6. An accreditation scheme for angling clubs will be introduced, a part of which will call upon them to encourage and instill good conduct among anglers.

7. A 10-point Code of Conduct for Anglers will be drawn up after discussion with interested parties (including angling clubs and associations, environmentalists and the Environmental Agency) that can be displayed on angling licenses. The Anglers’ Code of Conduct will also be prominently displayed in other appropriate places, including accredited angling clubs. It is recognised that the National Angling Alliance (NAA) has drawn up an excellent Code of Conduct for Coarse Anglers (Oct. 2002), which can be used as the basis for this.

I hope that clarifies matters for you. The Green Party also advocates measures to encourage vegetarian and vegan diets and to phase out intensive farming, including fish farming.

Kind regards,
Cath.

Cath Miller
Constituency Coordinator and Researcher
Office of Dr Caroline Lucas
Green Party MEP for SE England
Suite 58, The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY

Tel: 020 7407 6281
Email: carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk
www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk

Hi all, here is the reply I got from Caroline Lucas' office. It seems to me that the English greens are run by people with an anti fieldsports agenda and that they want to ban angling but are afraid to, as they'd lose votes.
I think someone should write letters to the angling press so anglers can stop voting for them or at least try to influence the choice of green representatives.
Could be good to get discussion going in the angling papers if only so people know what the greens plan to do.

 

[Mr. X]

Wow, what a bunch of scary wackosrofl The following bits are my favs (what are yours?):

...
3, The Green Party notes the (often fatal) injury caused to other wildlife by discarding lead shot/weights and will make the use of any lead in angling illegal.

4. The Green Party notes the declining use of barbed hooks and double and triple hooks because of the damage caused to fish, and will make the use of these illegal.

5. The Green Party is concerned about the damage caused to wildlife by carelessly discarded fishing tackle and the costs involved in cleaning it up. To reduce and, it is hoped, eradicate this, the Party will launch a campaign to raise awareness and encourage good practice among

Of course fish feel pain, that's how animals avoid harm. I think most predatory fish (all sea fish are predators to some extent - causing pain to other creatures, how unfeeling of them!) don't have sensitive mouths because they eat spiney things like other fish & crustaceans. Case in point, Miles's tale of the same fish being caught 3 times in one session by anglers on his boat.

Our half oz/1oz/2oz/3oz/...10oz ledger/sea weights do no harm Lead split shot has been banned in most places for some time & wildfowlers have been using nickel shot for yonks. Will they be banning SCUBA diving, freediving & church roofs too?! Need to start a campaign for real lead!

Look what happens when you put people in big cities with no hunting, they start stabbing & kicking each other to death.

"Triple hooks" - presumably they mean treble hooks. Well that wipes out all lure fishing. Bet Veals and all the tackle shops will be chuffed to hear that - NOT.

The Greens have obviously been infiltrated by the some of the more extreme elements of the animal rights lobby. Oh no, I almost forgot, their extreme elements are VERY EXTREME, digging up dead relatives and such. Sick people.

Well, it makes the choice when voting easier anyway! (Just read that Barrick Obama was a spearo in HawaiiCool dude! Now we just need to get him & Palin on the same ticket).

 

[Padaxes]

LOL Palin shouldnt be near any kind of public office, not by a country mile.



in other news I wrote to the greens about their response posted above and got this reply

Dear Toby,

Thank you for your email, which Caroline has asked me to respond to on her behalf. She was lobbied extensively about the EU’s plans to ban the use of spears in fishing by individuals involved in recreational spearfishing, hence her position. She is grateful that you have taken the time to bring her attention to some of the wider arguments in favour of spearfishing and will certainly look into this further before voting on the proposals.

Kind regards,
Cath.

Cath Miller
Constituency Coordinator and Researcher
Office of Dr Caroline Lucas
Green Party MEP for SE England
Suite 58, The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY

I wonder are these recreational spearfishermen you/us lot ? or are there people out there that spear fish that they dont eat ?

 

[Mr. X]

LOL Palin shouldnt be near any kind of public office, not by a country mile.
...
I wonder are these recreational spearfishermen you/us lot ? or are there people out there that spear fish that they dont eat ?

I think Palin has a sort of charm, like a cross between a playboy pin-up, Church Lady (from SNL) and Robert DeNiro in the Deer Hunter.

If you think the Greens wouldn't ban all hunting, then you are naive. Whether you eat it or not, they'll consider it recreational. Another glaring clue is their goal of making us all vegansrofl.

 

[Padaxes]

Well maybe I am niave but they did seem to make a clear distinction between recreational spear fishing and hunting for food.

As for Palin she terrifies me lol.

 

[Mr. X]

Well maybe I am niave but they did seem to make a clear distinction between recreational spear fishing and hunting for food.

They clearly say they're are against hunting. They concede angling at the moment only because it is Britains biggest participation sport (3million+)-- too many votes at stake. They would ban it if they could, and once they ban everything else they would certainly ban angling too, as they'd be no other hunters left to lend support (after all, some feel that "catch & return" is more cruel than hunting for food, needlessly tormenting wild creatures).

Recreational is used here used to mean non-commercial fishing (& perhaps professional vermin control -- I see they often use hockey sticks to kill rats in London, real humane), rather than food/sport - at least that's how it reads to me. I only spear for food & only know of people spearing for food. If folk spear & waste fish, I haven't come across it and I certainly would not approve it. I use all of the fish & return heads/tails/guts to the sea as bait/chum - so there is no waste. Even the heads & bones will sometimes be used for stock (Boullabaise) before being returned to the deep.

Vote for the English & Welsh Greens if you like. I think it would be a misplaced though -- you'd effectively be voting for an end to all hunting and fishing, and meat. I quite like vegan food -- don't think most of the population do though. The name might be Green but it doesn't mean they are green, desirable or safe. A wolf in sheeps clothing?

As for Palin she terrifies me lol.

There is something to said for that too I forgot to mention there being something of a school mistress(/dominatrix) about her too!

 

[SurfnSpear]

Quoted reply from BASC regarding the Caroline Lucas Green Party reply...

"Hmm. That is very unhelpful. I have a feeling that the Greens are signed up the Sustainable Hunting Charter (need to check to be sure) in which case she is potentially voting against the European Green Party although with the UK ones."

 

[Mr. X]

Seems like there are better organisations around if you want to be green.

Countryside Alliance - Present Finder