European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[Adrian]

I wonder if the Spanish conservation problems might have more to do with their trawlers

Thing is that Spain is such a huge fish eating market, there is way too much overfishing on all fronts. Each village has at least a couple of fish mongers, not to mention the one or two large supermarkets close by, with their own fresh fish section. Multiply that by all the the villages, towns and large supermarket chains, and presto, not even Houdini could create such a good "fish dissapearing" act!

Multiply again by all the countries and I'm amazed there is even anything left. How long will it last? But then, this is all commercial fishing.

 

[Mr. X]

Thing is that Spain is such a huge fish eating market, there is way too much overfishing on all fronts. Each village has at least a couple of fish mongers, not to mention the one or two large supermarkets close by, with their own fresh fish section. Multiply that by all the the villages, towns and large supermarket chains, and presto, not even Houdini could create such a good "fish dissapearing" act!

Multiply again by all the countries and I'm amazed there is even anything left. How long will it last? But then, this is all commercial fishing.

Apparently Britain doesn't eat much fish these days - 80+% of the British catch is exported. Part of the reason might be cost (the quality I've seen in the shops is usually good) but I've come across a lot of folk that will only consider eating fish if fried in batter (like a chip shop). Pity, as it can be very healthy & tasty but I guess it reduces demand on stocks.

 

[gutshot]

I forget which program it was i saw but it also said about 75-80% of british catch was exported. The concerning thing was that 75-80% of consumed fish in the uk was imported!!!:head

It all seems a little back to front to me!!

 

[Kars]

That's called "interdependence" Look that up.

BTW, knowing what truely motivates politicians, power and money, I think we're very lucky when they make any exemption for us lone spearo's.
But than again the EU draughtnut works on tirelessly to invent more laws, and I have no doubt they will ban, or make it practically impossible, any hunting sooner or later. Similar to not so long ago, hunting was severly punished by the local Lord because ýou're meddleing with HIS property, the same reason murder is punished.

 

[Mr. X]

Get nominating in the Countryside Alliance Awards

The Countryside Alliance Awards, formerly the Best Rural Retailer competition, are now open to nominations, so cast yours here. Daily Telegraph columnist Andrew Pierce recently started the hunt for the rural politicians of the year. The political awards and the title Rural Hero of 2008 will be judged for the first time this year alongside the now familiar (and much coveted) prizes for the best rural retailers. So get nominating and put your rural community on the map. If you would rather put pen to paper than vote online, download a form here and post it to 367 Kennington Road, London, SE11 4PT.

I wonder if it might be an idea to champion one or more of the MEPs that have provided the most support for spear fishing for this Rural Politician of the Year award? I have some thoughts on this, although several of the MEPs & MPs featureed on this thread would make viable candidates.

Here is the link: http://www.countrysideallianceaward...-the-countryside-alliance-awards-competition/

Or the paper nomination form: http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/images/stories/pdf/2008_ca_awards_nomination_form.pdf

The most appropriate award appears to be the "Rural Vision Award".

 

[SurfnSpear]

2008/9/18 Caroline Lucas <carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk>

Dear Brett,

Thank you for your email of June 23rd concerning spearfishing and conservation measures. Please excuse the very long delay in responding.

Whilst Caroline does recognise that spearfishing is not as destructive as some fishing practices, such as the use of explosives or poisons, the Green Party is opposed to all blood-sports. We oppose the killing of, or infliction of pain or suffering upon, animals in the name of sport or leisure, and will work to end all such practices. As a result, she supports the European Commission's move to outlaw spearfishing and will be joining her Green colleagues in voting in favour of the recommended changes to EU law.

Kind regards,
Cath.

Cath Miller
Constituency Coordinator and Researcher
Office of Dr Caroline Lucas
Green Party MEP for SE England
Suite 58, The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY

Tel: 020 7407 6281
Email: carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk
www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk


Reply :-
Goodness me! The sheer sub-intelligence conveyed absolutely astounds. Perhaps it's highly fortunate that the overwhelming likelihood is that we will never be seeing the 'green' party in power.
I think I have heard more understanding of an activity from Robert Mugabe.
I imagine you are all happily buying trawler raped seafood from your local supermarkets.......



​

 

[andah]

Surely someone who is catching their own food (self sustenance living) is greener than someone shopping from tescos???

Some of these people do'nt even know what they want themselves!

 

[Mr. X]

Surely someone who is catching their own food (self sustenance living) is greener than someone shopping from tescos???

Some of these people don't even know what they want themselves!

You mean the Greens are hypocrites? Well, at least they are candid, unlike some politicians I can think of, and now we all know who NOT TO VOTE FOR. Best let the Countryside Alliance, shooting, hunting, fishing mags. & orgs know.

 

[gutshot]

Never seen a fish caught by hook and line which didn't involve blood coming out of the fishes mouth! Are they going to ban that too???

 

[Mr. X]

Yes, angling is a bloodsport (& what about those poor little worms, crabs, maggots, sandeels, squid). Sea fishing, coarse fishing, fly fishing, game fishing, boat fishing. I spear fish to feed my family fresh, natural, free range food -- the Greens would apparently have you buy from Tesco/Asda/Wallmart/Morrisons, plastic boxed, wrapped and labelled and a week old, caught off Norway by some great big oil buring factory ship that discards tons of by-catch, and then trucked down to London before distribution elsewhere. How green is that!

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions" is the phrase that comes to mind. Soft & cuddling but out of touch with reality. The letter above seems remarkably similar to the views expressed by PETA (PETA is discredited in another discussion on this forum...read what they think of pets and what happened to the animals in their shelters:yack).

 

[Kars]

According some of the green mouthpieces, there are too many people on earth and they whish to have worlds population vastly reduced.(80-95%). Co2 tax will be a tax on breathing, but in short this movement too will be used to crush down on the normal emphatic people.

- In 1991, in a book entitled The First Global Revolution: A Report by the Council of The Club of Rome [2] and coauthored by one of the founders of The Club of Rome, Alexander King, they admitted choosing global warming and other threats to unify humanity under a world government.

"In searching for a new enemy to unite us [all of humanity], we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. In their totality and in their interactions, these phenomena constitute a common threat which as the enemy, we fall into the trap about which we have already warned, namely mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy then is humanity itself."

Quotes from Alexander King and Bertrand Schneider, The First Global Revolution: A Report by the Council of The Club of Rome (1991). ISBN 0-671-71107-5


Every body knows in what direction the globalised world is going, but will we learn to say NO in time to give our children a future?

Civil disobediance, be vocal, be a leader, educate yourself, become independent, be a muskito in the tent.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars.

 

[Mr. X]

According some of the green mouthpieces, there are too many people on earth and they whish to have worlds population vastly reduced....

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars.

I think the world is over populated too but I wouldn't ban hunting & fishing. The difficult bit is how to remedy it. Of course, nature has it's own way of dealing with such things, often unpleasant. Perhaps we should all join the Green Party and strike out that pesky, antisocial clause? No need to vote for the party of course.

Are the Greens really "Greener than thou"?! Looking at her website, she appears to have an old school, hard left agenda.
Go green vote blue?

 

[James T]

2008/9/18 Caroline Lucas <carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk>

Dear Brett,

Thank you for your email of June 23rd concerning spearfishing and conservation measures. Please excuse the very long delay in responding.

Whilst Caroline does recognise that spearfishing is not as destructive as some fishing practices, such as the use of explosives or poisons, the Green Party is opposed to all blood-sports. We oppose the killing of, or infliction of pain or suffering upon, animals in the name of sport or leisure, and will work to end all such practices. As a result, she supports the European Commission's move to outlaw spearfishing and will be joining her Green colleagues in voting in favour of the recommended changes to EU law.

Kind regards,
Cath.

Cath Miller
Constituency Coordinator and Researcher
Office of Dr Caroline Lucas
Green Party MEP for SE England
Suite 58, The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY

Tel: 020 7407 6281
Email: carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk
www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk


Reply :-
Goodness me! The sheer sub-intelligence conveyed absolutely astounds. Perhaps it's highly fortunate that the overwhelming likelihood is that we will never be seeing the 'green' party in power.
I think I have heard more understanding of an activity from Robert Mugabe.
I imagine you are all happily buying trawler raped seafood from your local supermarkets.......



​

Hi Brett - did you get a chance to reply to this email giving the balanced argument for spearfishing? Sounds like education is, again, the key point here. Regardless of the point of view on whether this is a bloodsport or not - we feed ourselves with our kill whilst creating no by-catch and not environmentally destructive.

I dispair of these people. Lets ban everything we don't understand. This one letter has put me off the Green Party - it demonstrates very poor judgement IMHO. God help us from Zealots and their narrow Eutopian World view

James

 

[Mr. X]

Caroline Lucas MEP:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Lucas]Caroline Lucas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

"Lucas began her career as an activist in the anti-nuclear movement with the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND). She was heavily involved in the Snowball Campaign against US military bases in the UK
...
In 1999, Lucas was first elected as a Member of the European Parliament for the South East England Region with 7.4% of the vote (110,571 votes). She was re-elected in 2004, gaining 173,351 votes (7.9% share)
...
she is vice-president of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (RSPCA)
...
Her most notable work is Green Alternatives to Globalisation: A Manifesto (co-authored with Mike Woodin), which advocates localisation of economies based on minimal trade and greater social and environmental concern, in opposition to neo-liberal, market-led forces of globalisation."

Reading her website & the above, I find myself admiring half of what she does and stands for and while being absolutely horrified by the other half, and the naivity and possible consequences of all of it (poverty, economic collapse, invasion, huge losses of freedom, decay).

Got to laugh at somebody that commutes from the UK to work in Brussels & Strasberg lecturing the public on being green.

The Americans are often good at getting to the heart of issues quickly:

 

[Spaniard]

Thing is with so many of these people is that they don't seem to sit down and think things through.....The title 'spearfishing' evokes a negative response from these people but if we were to call it 'greenfishing' which it is, what then? If you take their argument to the Nth degree we should subsist on water and air only which i'm sure many of their exalted members do not. Let's keep pointing out our side of the argument which is all we can do. :t

 

[sunfish]

There are lots of anglers in Kent and the SE of england. Maybe they should be made aware that their chosen MEP wishes to end angling? Letters to all local Kentish and SE newspapers maybe?
Voters need to know these things surely.
Letters to the angling press informing people that the green party are opposed to all angling may be a good idea too. I certainly didnn't realise it and will be questioning my Irish Green Party reps about their position on this. They could lose a lot of votes, mine included.

 

[Kars]

Honesty and Politicians are not known to go together well.
The fish rotts at the head first. I think the proces is currently creaping into the tail.

Greenfishing is a smart way to sell our way of surviving, very fashionable.

Gosh I'm tyred of this green Gaia religeon, though I agree we should not poisen our nest. I'm sick of the hypocracy, the suppression of many great -green and more independence providing- inventions and technologies, the favouritism and omnipresent limitless corruption, propaganda (the omnipresent icebear), fearmongering, suppresion of individulism, snooping and rendition, robber barrons, the lies, the psychopaths, the childishness of the mass man.

Take a step back, take 10 steps back to get a view of the extensiveness of humanities problem. The search starts within oneself. How did I get to my opinions? What has formed my mind, Who formed it? Think in contect, Qi Bono - who benefits?

Be indicnent, learn to say NO, no matter what 'official' is treading your rights.

Ok, sorry for the little rant, I'm getting fired up.

Oh and MR. X, which people you suggest need to go? Shall we first mark them like the custom is? Which group of humans are the 'some are more equal's' you would like to 'vote for' to make a selection?
The shepherds these days have wide array of weapons and techniques to kill of and sterilize any group or indiviual, and have been using them on the herd.

Did you know the average Western male fertility (Active Sperm Count) since the 1950 has dropped 75%? - I'm sure Gaia went into overdrive for that one.

You know what's really funny? It appears that always the people we think of as good and human volunteer, follow and go first, while the criminals having a sence selfperservation always find a way arround.

Maybe the world is better off without emotion and empathy? Let's have only rational masters and easily manageble weak specially bread marked slaves in service for the state and their owners. Welcome to machine. MR. Spock, apparently the emotional and emphatic trade has to go. What's makes us an individual? Humans reduced to mindless ant's to serve a small establishment elite who are the rightfull owners of everything, because they have conquered it.

Did you know that most of the western countries have negative population growth rates?

Do not dispair, the establishment agrees, and like all their other plans that have been accomplished, a 80-95% population reduction is comming soon. I expect it just after the people are herded into the (mega)cities, when pandemics will start to hit the malnurished.

I'm sorry to come down so hard on MR. X his view, I guess I'm appalled by the widespread dangerous passifying creed of overpopulation, held by so many -educated/indoctrinated- people. And this creed was mine for years too from junior school to about two years ago.

Closing I want state that I still really like your stife for indepencence, privacy, your energy you're putting in for your fellow humens.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

Oh, and just a few articles to show how fare we are on this slipperly slope towards eugenics, understand they use the logic of silence = consenting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-die-pushed-death-says-Baroness-Warnock.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/nov/05111002.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2004/mar/04031806.html
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news/so....html?siteSect=201&sid=9657957&rss=true&ty=st
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...cented-creams-make-unborn-baby-infertile.html
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/3116

 

[Mr. X]

There are lots of anglers in Kent and the SE of england. Maybe they should be made aware that their chosen MEP wishes to end angling? Letters to all local Kentish and SE newspapers maybe?
Voters need to know these things surely...

Do the anglers bother voting though? I hope they will, and anyone else involved in the country, field sports & fishing. A lot of country folk have green leanings and would be surprised at the Green Party's wish to ban all field sports, fishing, hunting, etc. I certainly was.

...Oh and MR. X, which people you suggest need to go?
...
Did you know the average Western male fertility since the 1950 has dropped 75%? - I'm sure Gaia went into overdrive for that one.
...
I'm sorry to come down so hard on MR. X his view
...
Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

I don't suggest anyone go. I don't have an answer, just recognise an inconvenient truth. Education, self control, population management, contraception probably all have a part to play in a humane solution & a happy future.

Hadn't heard the 75% figure but I know that the indiginous populations of some northern european countries, including Britain, were dropping. Not surprising after the awful economic problems of the 70s & early 80s (it was grim) - many people who lived through that wouldn't want or couldn't afford a lot of offspring. I think the fall is a predictable, natural & sensible reaction of the populations to the reduction in available resources and hardship. However, Governments don't like that ("who'll pay the pensions?!") and nor do corporations, who like increasing numbers of consumers to fuel their constant need to grow. The British government & EU have dealt with those long term issues using a short term solution, by removing restrictions on immigration.

Didn't realise you were coming down hard on me, I thought you were agreeing with me Kars. Let's not go too far off topic though .

 

[sunfish]

I've emailed Ed Davitt in the Irish Green Party and he said they don't wish to outlaw angling, so I've now sent one to Caroline Lucas asking why these two branches of the Greens don't agree on policy.
I've also asked whether they wish to end the taking of wild fish altogether and if they oppose meat eating.
I feel the party should make their views clear on such subjects and that they could then have a party policy so that people would know what they are voting for. I'll let you know what she say's.

 

[Kars]

Keep it up Sunfish, great work.
At the UN, Vegitarianism is mentioned there as the diet for the human of the future.