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European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .
- Thread starterrab
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Just back from a holiday in Italy. I learnt that they still have an active swordfish fishery where the fish are taken by use of harpoons. Apparently the fish migrate past the south coast as part of their breeding cycle (so I was told). There are still quite a few of the specialist harpoon boats with the tall mast complete with crows nest for the lookout and the long bowsprit for the harpooner to get way out in front of the boat hulls pressure wave. I wonder if this is connected to why this new proposed regulation will not cover the Med and are there other projectile fishing methods in use?
Dave
Dave
Got this
Dear Mr Coombe,
I write further to my email of 4 July regarding the Commission’s proposals that could prevent spearfishing.
I have now received a reply from Commissioner Borg, the EU Commissioner for fisheries which I attach for your perusal. I am pleased to note that it is not the Commissions intention to prevent spearfishing as a sport, and that the Commissioner accepts the need for clarification of the proposals to remove any doubt. Please be assured that my Group will monitor this legislation to ensure sufficient clarification is in place.
Thank you for contacting me on this matter and if I can be of any assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.
with this attatched
Dear Mr Watson
Thankyou four your letter of 1 July on the proposal for a Council Regulation on technical measures in the Atlantic and especially on the public prohibition of recreational spearfishing.
I have noted your request and, especially the question by your constituent on recreational spearfishin and the reason why you believe that this fishing practice is not a destructive method.
One of the main objectives of the proposal for techinical measures in the Atlantic was to simplify the current regulations which have become too complex and sometimes difficult to understand.
On Your concern, I note that there is no definition of the expression "any kind of projectiles" which is used in the current technical regulations and I agree that it may not be clear what fishing practices are covered by this provision.
However, I can assure you that it is not the intention of the Commission to Prohibit recreational spearfishing. The article concerned can certainly be made clearer and more specific to dissipate any doubt.
Yours Sincerely
Joe Borg
Member of the European Commision
Not bad eh
Dear Mr Coombe,
I write further to my email of 4 July regarding the Commission’s proposals that could prevent spearfishing.
I have now received a reply from Commissioner Borg, the EU Commissioner for fisheries which I attach for your perusal. I am pleased to note that it is not the Commissions intention to prevent spearfishing as a sport, and that the Commissioner accepts the need for clarification of the proposals to remove any doubt. Please be assured that my Group will monitor this legislation to ensure sufficient clarification is in place.
Thank you for contacting me on this matter and if I can be of any assistance in the future, please do not hesitate to contact me.
with this attatched
Dear Mr Watson
Thankyou four your letter of 1 July on the proposal for a Council Regulation on technical measures in the Atlantic and especially on the public prohibition of recreational spearfishing.
I have noted your request and, especially the question by your constituent on recreational spearfishin and the reason why you believe that this fishing practice is not a destructive method.
One of the main objectives of the proposal for techinical measures in the Atlantic was to simplify the current regulations which have become too complex and sometimes difficult to understand.
On Your concern, I note that there is no definition of the expression "any kind of projectiles" which is used in the current technical regulations and I agree that it may not be clear what fishing practices are covered by this provision.
However, I can assure you that it is not the intention of the Commission to Prohibit recreational spearfishing. The article concerned can certainly be made clearer and more specific to dissipate any doubt.
Yours Sincerely
Joe Borg
Member of the European Commision
Not bad eh
Ok, got one From Matthew Taylor with a letter he recived from Defra,
" I can confirm therfore that as currently drafted, we believe the proposed Regulation would effectively ban spearfishing, so I can appreciate the concerns of spearfisherman.
However, your constituent should be aware that negotiations on the proposals are at a very early stage.We are currently consulting with stakeholderrs, interested parties and the Devolved Administratind with a view to developing the UK position. As part of that process we will consider the concerns of spearfisherman who I would encourage to respond to the consultation.
I should perhaps clarify, that the proposed legislation, as drafted, would equally apply to commercial and recreational activity in all EU waters (with only limited exceptions), and would impact equally on them both. Our initial view would be to question the conservation value to be gained from prohibiting this practice completely, as it would appear to have less of an impact on stocks than other commercial fishing activities. There is also the question of wheter the technical conservation rules should apply to recreational anglers at all. We will certainly raise these points during negotiations with the Commission and seek clarification of thier intention, and further request a more detailed explanation of what they have in mind. I will ensure that spearfishermen and thier representatives are kept up to date with developments."
Johnathan Shaw
DEFRA
So starts shit but seems like they realise its an issue and will at least attempt to resolve it, surely grouping us with regular recreational anglers can only add weight to our argument
" I can confirm therfore that as currently drafted, we believe the proposed Regulation would effectively ban spearfishing, so I can appreciate the concerns of spearfisherman.
However, your constituent should be aware that negotiations on the proposals are at a very early stage.We are currently consulting with stakeholderrs, interested parties and the Devolved Administratind with a view to developing the UK position. As part of that process we will consider the concerns of spearfisherman who I would encourage to respond to the consultation.
I should perhaps clarify, that the proposed legislation, as drafted, would equally apply to commercial and recreational activity in all EU waters (with only limited exceptions), and would impact equally on them both. Our initial view would be to question the conservation value to be gained from prohibiting this practice completely, as it would appear to have less of an impact on stocks than other commercial fishing activities. There is also the question of wheter the technical conservation rules should apply to recreational anglers at all. We will certainly raise these points during negotiations with the Commission and seek clarification of thier intention, and further request a more detailed explanation of what they have in mind. I will ensure that spearfishermen and thier representatives are kept up to date with developments."
Johnathan Shaw
DEFRA
So starts shit but seems like they realise its an issue and will at least attempt to resolve it, surely grouping us with regular recreational anglers can only add weight to our argument
Hi there - sorry if something similar has been posted before (this is too big a thread to read fully!) but after using a template letter from this forum this is the reply I just received - it kinda positive
Thank you for your email of the 19 August 2008 on the proposal for a
Council Regulation on technical measures in the Atlantic and especially
on the possible prohibition of recreational spearfishing. I am
responding on behalf of Mrs Attwooll.
In response to concerns over the Council Regulation, Joe Borg, the
European Commissioner for fisheries, has stated that one of the main
objectives of the proposal for technical measures in the Atlantic was to
simplify the current regulations which have become too complex and
sometimes difficult to understand.
There is no definition of the expression "any kind of projectiles" which
is used in the current technical regulations and Mr Borg agrees that it
may not be clear what fishing practices are covered by this provision.
Furthermore, he declares that it is not the intention of the Commission
to prohibit recreational spearfishing and agrees that the article can be
made clearer and more specific in order to dissipate any doubt.
I hope that this answers your query.
Yours sincerely,
Kirsty McVicar
Assistant to Elspeth Attwooll MEP
Am I too optimistic???
Thank you for your email of the 19 August 2008 on the proposal for a
Council Regulation on technical measures in the Atlantic and especially
on the possible prohibition of recreational spearfishing. I am
responding on behalf of Mrs Attwooll.
In response to concerns over the Council Regulation, Joe Borg, the
European Commissioner for fisheries, has stated that one of the main
objectives of the proposal for technical measures in the Atlantic was to
simplify the current regulations which have become too complex and
sometimes difficult to understand.
There is no definition of the expression "any kind of projectiles" which
is used in the current technical regulations and Mr Borg agrees that it
may not be clear what fishing practices are covered by this provision.
Furthermore, he declares that it is not the intention of the Commission
to prohibit recreational spearfishing and agrees that the article can be
made clearer and more specific in order to dissipate any doubt.
I hope that this answers your query.
Yours sincerely,
Kirsty McVicar
Assistant to Elspeth Attwooll MEP
Am I too optimistic???
1 September 2009
Our ref: ps/ap
Dear Brett,
Thank you for your email of 23 June 2008 concerning the perceived threat to spearfishing.
The Visser report is currently due to be voted on at the committee on 2 December 2008, and it will then be considered by the whole Parliament in January 2009. My colleague Catherine Stihler MEP will question the Commission directly in committee on the thinking behind the ban on recreational spearfishing.
As matters stand, Article 31 of the existing Council Regulation (EC 850/98) only prohibits the "sale, display, or offer for sale of marine organisms caught using methods incorporating the use of of any kind of projectile". However, Article 12 of the Commission's proposed new Regulation would extend the provisions to the "catching, retention on board, the transhipment, storage, landing, sale, display or offer for sale" of marine organisms caught using unconventional fishing methods including "any kind of projectile". The term "projectile" is not defined in the proposal nor the current Regulation, but we understand that this includes the use of spears. So as currently drafted, we do believe the proposed Regulation would effectively ban spearfishing.
We do not believe however that spearfishing has a significant impact on the conservation of fish stocks so see little to be gained from prohibiting this practice completely. We have also been informed by the British Spearfishing Association, that the Information and Communication Unit (of the Directorate General for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries) think that an outright ban of spearfishing is not intended in the proposal and that the Commission intends to clarify this at a later date (possibly by defining what is meant by a "projectile").
Hopefully this should be a fairly straightforward issue to resolve if the Commission do not intend a ban and it is a question of clarification. However, please rest assured that my colleague Catherine Stihler will raise your concerns in committee verbally, and if necessary, via an amendment.
Yours sincerely,
Peter Skinner MEP
Labour Representative for the South East of England
European Parliament
ASP 13G142, Rue Wiertz
Brussels, 1047, Belgium
Tel: 0032 2 284 5458
Fax: 0032 2 284 9458
peter.skinner@europarl.europa.eu
Peter Skinner MEP - Home
Our ref: ps/ap
Dear Brett,
Thank you for your email of 23 June 2008 concerning the perceived threat to spearfishing.
The Visser report is currently due to be voted on at the committee on 2 December 2008, and it will then be considered by the whole Parliament in January 2009. My colleague Catherine Stihler MEP will question the Commission directly in committee on the thinking behind the ban on recreational spearfishing.
As matters stand, Article 31 of the existing Council Regulation (EC 850/98) only prohibits the "sale, display, or offer for sale of marine organisms caught using methods incorporating the use of of any kind of projectile". However, Article 12 of the Commission's proposed new Regulation would extend the provisions to the "catching, retention on board, the transhipment, storage, landing, sale, display or offer for sale" of marine organisms caught using unconventional fishing methods including "any kind of projectile". The term "projectile" is not defined in the proposal nor the current Regulation, but we understand that this includes the use of spears. So as currently drafted, we do believe the proposed Regulation would effectively ban spearfishing.
We do not believe however that spearfishing has a significant impact on the conservation of fish stocks so see little to be gained from prohibiting this practice completely. We have also been informed by the British Spearfishing Association, that the Information and Communication Unit (of the Directorate General for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries) think that an outright ban of spearfishing is not intended in the proposal and that the Commission intends to clarify this at a later date (possibly by defining what is meant by a "projectile").
Hopefully this should be a fairly straightforward issue to resolve if the Commission do not intend a ban and it is a question of clarification. However, please rest assured that my colleague Catherine Stihler will raise your concerns in committee verbally, and if necessary, via an amendment.
Yours sincerely,
Peter Skinner MEP
Labour Representative for the South East of England
European Parliament
ASP 13G142, Rue Wiertz
Brussels, 1047, Belgium
Tel: 0032 2 284 5458
Fax: 0032 2 284 9458
peter.skinner@europarl.europa.eu
Peter Skinner MEP - Home
The last word "completely" jolts. So much for the late August meeting. If they keep pushing this out, perhaps we'll have a change of government before this is finalized.
BTW There are now 300 signatures on the petition: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Spearfishing/
There is another active petition that will be of interest to spearos & anglers: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/1mileboundry
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I got the same letter.
I think the important part is the letter from Joe Borg stating that the intention is not to ban spearfishing. The other stuff from people further down the food chain is largely politician speak from people who dont understand the issue, but just want to make sure they dont drop themselves in the poo
I had a look at this petition. I cant see the justification for banning all commercial fishing within 1 mile of the shore. Banning all trawling, dredging etc might be sensible (eg the Mediterranean version of the EU technical conservation measures bans trawling within 1.5miles of the coast) but things like potting, commercial line fishing, shellfish diving etc are really not a problem. I also dont think it would be realistically enforceable without a huge extra budget for fisheries management
cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment
I think the important part is the letter from Joe Borg stating that the intention is not to ban spearfishing. The other stuff from people further down the food chain is largely politician speak from people who dont understand the issue, but just want to make sure they dont drop themselves in the poo
I had a look at this petition. I cant see the justification for banning all commercial fishing within 1 mile of the shore. Banning all trawling, dredging etc might be sensible (eg the Mediterranean version of the EU technical conservation measures bans trawling within 1.5miles of the coast) but things like potting, commercial line fishing, shellfish diving etc are really not a problem. I also dont think it would be realistically enforceable without a huge extra budget for fisheries management
cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment
If the question is why did he say "not completely", I guess it simply could mean that spearfishing won't be banned "completely" but only partially: no more scuba spearing, no more night spearing.
Scuba spearing and night spearing are already forbidden in the national regulations of most mediterranean EU countries, and the same principle has been adopted in the latest EU directory about recreational fishing (n.1967 of 21st december 2006) which says that spearfishing is okay but not at night and not with scuba.
More simply put, I think you british friends might have to give up night spearing, as in the rest of the EU, but you won't have to give up spearfishing "completely". Could be?
By "rest of the EU", you mean France & Italy? With all due respect, it sounds like a p!ss poor reason to restrict anything. With, we think, less than 300 spearos total in the UK, poor weather and poor visibility, we already have all the limitations we need.
Perhaps Italy should fall into line with the UK & remove its restriction? America (land of the free) has no such ban. Wonder if the Labour MEP concerned will survive the next election? Quite possibly not. (How long till the general election?)
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Spain also has the same restrictions Spaghetti mentions. But then we have (and I asked out of curiosity) how many spearo licences there were in Catalonia alone and I was told "thousands". That's just one part of the coast. I'm all for no spearing on scuba and at night here in the Med. Even with these restrictions, there are still idiots who spear sleeping fish at night and in the Nature reserves - we caught one last time we were in the Medes National Park, the guy hid the speargun underwater under his boat, and my buddy saw it and hid it in another place so he couldn't find it. I didn't know about it then, as he told me later, but if I had I would have called the police. Lot's of people here don't get licences, spear illegaly and generally don't give a damn about sustainable fishing. This is why some minimum "common sense" restictions are necessary or our shores will be barren. Unfortunately respect for the environment and animals is not a forte of Spanish mentality. It's getting better, but we still have a loooong way to go.
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In the US the restrictions are on state levels. They usually revolve around species limits and exclusion of "game fish". Florida has some restriction on jetties & piers, East Coast states limit/exclude bug capture & stripers, Texas lists mackeral & cobias as "game". Almost all states only allow rough/trash fish in fresh water. In short there's no continuity but no outright bans.
Why is EU even pushing this? Someone with small beady eyes has to be the catalyst...but who or what group? :martial
Bloody hell, i sometimes see almost 300 clueless muppet spearos running around my local beach in the hight of the summer waving loaded cheap spearguns. Does that mean the entire spearo population desends onto my beach in the summer months?? Ok, 300 might have been slightly over the top but lets not let the truth get between us and a good story!!!
To be honest i think Dave is right. The reply sonded as clueless as these muppets on the beach and Peter Skinner is just covering his rear end.
Spaghetti explained the romantic implications of the Italian restriction. Makes perfect sense now . Re. Dave's point on potting, etc. its a fair point, I don't think of crab/lobster/molluscs as fish but many do. I wonder if the Spanish conservation problems might have more to do with their trawlers (one of which was reportedly illegally trawling off Beesands, Torcross & Slapton in Devon a few weeks ago)?
. Re. Dave's point on potting, etc. its a fair point, I don't think of crab/lobster/molluscs as fish but many do. I wonder if the Spanish conservation problems might have more to do with their trawlers (one of which was reportedly illegally trawling off Beesands, Torcross & Slapton in Devon a few weeks ago)?