Example for DYNAMIC co2 tables

[Julia]

Hi everyone
Maybe a really stupid question but I was looking arround in the web and also at deeperblue for examples of co2 tables for dynamic pool training... I can find lots of discussions about it but no example (maybe I checked at the wrong places). Can anyone give me a link to co2 dynamic tables or maybe just write down some. Would be great to have some variety in my trainingsessions
Thanks

 

[Triton1715]

Hi everyone
Maybe a really stupid question but I was looking arround in the web and also at deeperblue for examples of co2 tables for dynamic pool training... I can find lots of discussions about it but no example (maybe I checked at the wrong places). Can anyone give me a link to co2 dynamic tables or maybe just write down some. Would be great to have some variety in my trainingsessions
Thanks

Maybe I'm missing something, but I wasn't aware there were different tables for dynamic vs static. I thought the idea of tables was simply to get better acquainted with higher CO2 levels. That would only required one set since CO2 is CO2 regardless of whether it's created by dynamic or static.

. . . ?

 

[Julia]

I don't think there are big differences... in static you do time and dynamic distance... but the one table I saw once was different... I just don't remember exactly how it was... but something like 2min breath up - 30m dive (4x) and then reduce the breath up time.

 

[Triton1715]

I don't think there are big differences... in static you do time and dynamic distance... but the one table I saw once was different... I just don't remember exactly how it was... but something like 2min breath up - 30m dive (4x) and then reduce the breath up time.

Ah, I see! So, you mean a table that you actively use during training at the pool, rather than a standard CO2 table typically used for dry-training. . . .basically pool exercises is what your looking for then, right?

 

[Julia]

exactly. not for static training but for actually diving. dynamic... Do you know a good webpage with some examples? or do you know by yourself some tables and varieties?

 

[Triton1715]

I'm not aware of any specific tables for dynamic, but instead there are various routines you can do to increase CO2 tolerance for dynamics. Baiyoke had this to recommend/experiment with a few years back:

"You could try something I've only done once, but will try again tomorrow: Dive any distance or time, but go up now and then and breath out and in again only one time every time you breath... You won't get all the CO2 out, but you will allways have lot's of oxygen (again can't say if you sprint, so take it easy). This is CO2 training, but if you got a strong vasoconstriction, you can train lactic acid also I think. At least I got lactic when I tried (going slowly). Now I'm not 100% sure this is entirely sae, but as far as I can tell, you will always be full of oxygen, or a little low only... but high on CO2..."

I've done a number of routines in the pool that usually involve making 10x25mm runs with decreasing recovery times in between. For example, try something like this:

Take 10 breaths and swim 25m
surface and take 9 breaths and swim back
take 8 breaths and swim again, then 7, 6, 5, 4 and 3

Then go back up again. Conversely, you can also do this based on a time limit like 2x25m with a :30 recovery, 2x25m with :20, 2x25m with :15, 2x25m with :10, 2x25m :05.

Just a few ideas for you

 

[growingupninja]

Dynamic CO2 table = hypoxic interval training.

If you are deadset on sticking to a CO2 table, just take whatever CO2 table you want and do mild/medium intensity work the entire time--pedal a bike, swim, walk. When you add an element of exertion you will need to adjust hold and rest times towards something easier than what you can do static. Done on a full lung you will be training more CO2 (hypercapnia). If you do your hold with a more empty lung or longer hold times (both of which would encourage stronger dive response) you'd be training more hypoxia and higher lactic tolerance.

This type of workout will translate much better to open water diving and spearfishing performance and stamina than most any other training.

 

[Jo_duiker]

Take 10 breaths and swim 25m
surface and take 9 breaths and swim back
take 8 breaths and swim again, then 7, 6, 5, 4 and 3

Then go back up again. Conversely, you can also do this based on a time limit like 2x25m with a :30 recovery, 2x25m with :20, 2x25m with :15, 2x25m with :10, 2x25m :05.

Just a few ideas for you

In my AIDA 2* dynamic session, our instructor made us warm up by doing the 10,9,8,7,6...down to 1 breath in between 25m laps underwater, but everyone was always taking way more (I'm talking a LOT more!) breaths than the allowed number. He wanted us to go down to only 1 breath. He noticed we couldn't manage at all, so he stopped at the 4 breaths so he wouldn't demotivate us even before we really tried to go for the required 40m. If you haven't ever done this and/or your fitness level is as mine (practically non existent!), these kind of exercises can be/are VERY tough, I can assure you - my heart was beating in my throat after the second lap already, lol! Well, of course it's also in the mind. You have to believe you can and will make it, as your oxygen is replenished every time, even when contractions start right at the beginning of another 25m lap... (Done on full lungs, of course!)

A variation on Triton's second example (with decreasing breathing times) can be seen here: start with 30 seconds of breathing, then 25 sec, then 20, etc. between laps of 25m:

(The lady here does have a great level of fitness, so take that into account as well! She trains every day and she's off to Umberto's Apnea Academy Instructor's course now...)

I like these dynamic CO2 ideas, but you should look for stuff that you can actually do, and which is still a (bit of a) challenge at the same time. Experimenting is the issue here to find that spot. If you take examples that are too hard, you only get demotivated when you can't even do a warm up exercise.

 

[Kars]

Hi Julia,
Can I ask what your freediving goals are?
What kind of diving do you aim to improve?
I ask this because our pool time is precious and I like to work to aspecific goal.
Also what kind of static, dynamic numbers have you got now?
Have you got a buddy?
How is your dive response?

 

[Julia]

Hi everyone! Thank you for the different ideas, I will dedfinitely try some and I will definitely follow Jo_duiker's advice, as I will probably have to breath more as recomended!

@Kars: My freediving goals are not at all specific, basicly having fun diving and enjoy myself, but I want to improve my dive time and dept. No competition, maybe I will do one just for the experience but its not my goal to make new records!
What do you mean with "our pooltime is precious and I like to work on a specific goal?" Sorry I didn't get that question well.

I never tried to go for a max. dive in dynamic but I did 80m with a monofin. I also like to do DNF but I didn't go for a max. dive there neither... (maybe arround 45m)
Anyway my PB in static is 3:53min

Of corse I never dive alone, in the pool we are a cuple of people. We normally don't do one by one buddy in dynamic training but I would do a CO2 table only with someone watching me.
My dive response is existent (what do you mean with this question?)

 

[Kars]

Hi everyone! Thank you for the different ideas, I will dedfinitely try some and I will definitely follow Jo_duiker's advice, as I will probably have to breath more as recomended!

@Kars: My freediving goals are not at all specific, basicly having fun diving and enjoy myself, but I want to improve my dive time and dept. No competition, maybe I will do one just for the experience but its not my goal to make new records!
What do you mean with "our pooltime is precious and I like to work on a specific goal?" Sorry I didn't get that question well.

I never tried to go for a max. dive in dynamic but I did 80m with a monofin. I also like to do DNF but I didn't go for a max. dive there neither... (maybe arround 45m)
Anyway my PB in static is 3:53min

Of corse I never dive alone, in the pool we are a cuple of people. We normally don't do one by one buddy in dynamic training but I would do a CO2 table only with someone watching me.
My dive response is existent (what do you mean with this question?)

Thanks for the reply, I now have a better impression of what you may like.

There is a discipline known as 16x50m dynamic. Most divers can do it with a little practice in 20minutes. Of case you can do less or more the 16 lanes of 50m. The interval or start times can be like 2' or less. this means that you'll start you next 50m 2' from the start of the previous dive. If you swim slow you'll have less recovery time. Now the cool thing is that your coach can give you 1 swimming tip each time you arrive. he'll also do the countdown to the next dive, so all you do is swim, improve your swimming technique, and breath. If you do a hard schedule you'll have a mental CO2 challange at the 4th and at the 8th length. Off cause you can choose a short 8 lane easy 2' + pace schedule to try this out.

anothe thing you can try is what the Danes use, stretch up your dynamic dive time.
say you can now swim for 60 seconds, try swimming much slower for 90. Make that a new habit, and the start to increase the speed a bit whilst keeping the 90 second divetime.

Another thing you can do is practice your mind while swimming. Like I've said in other post it is good to have a gentle focus on the now, by focussing on feeling the water and having a nice fluid swimming rhythm. If you forget the time and the distance you've done it right. If you're surpriced to see the wall, then you did it right.
Swimming without a care for numbers is the key.

Have fun exploring these!

Kars

 

[Julia]

Wow! Thank you Kars. This sounds great, I think that's really my style of swimming. I do know the 16x50 already but not the variations of it. And all the other ideas are great too! Thanks a lot!

 

[Piotrek]

Whoa... Thank you, Julia, for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone for their replies. Very informative!

 

[Jo_duiker]

Thanks for the reply, I now have a better impression of what you may like.
There is a discipline known as 16x50m dynamic. Most divers can do it with a little practice in 20minutes.
Kars

Kars, by "most divers", you do mean divers with a fitness level that's a fair amount above zero, right? Is it right to say that a person's fitness level has its influence (also) mainly on the recovery times? (better fitness = generally shorter recovery times, bad fitness level = generally longer recovery times). Correct me if I'm wrong.
My fitness level being nowhere, I can not imagine doing several 50m DYN dives in a row, let alone 16!
(Especially when you know my PB is exacly 50m - contractions starting halfway already... )

Julia, I can only say I'm jealous reading your PB's.

 

[Kars]

Kars, by "most divers", you do mean divers with a fitness level that's a fair amount above zero, right? Is it right to say that a person's fitness level has its influence (also) mainly on the recovery times? (better fitness = generally shorter recovery times, bad fitness level = generally longer recovery times). Correct me if I'm wrong.
My fitness level being nowhere, I can not imagine doing several 50m DYN dives in a row, let alone 16!
(Especially when you know my PB is exacly 50m - contractions starting halfway already... )

Julia, I can only say I'm jealous reading your PB's.

Ok, I may have been a bit to optimistic about that 20 minutes and 16x50. If your pb is 50, i estimate that you'll have fun with 16x 25m. For most freedivers contractions start between 40 and 50m.
I've seen many new freedivers improove a lot on their health, stamina, habits, mind. I have confidence your pb will keep improoving to you fist 100m.

 

[Penyu]

Ok, I may have been a bit to optimistic about that 20 minutes and 16x50. If your pb is 50, i estimate that you'll have fun with 16x 25m. For most freedivers contractions start between 40 and 50m.
I've seen many new freedivers improove a lot on their health, stamina, habits, mind. I have confidence your pb will keep improoving to you fist 100m.

First of all, thanks a lot Kars, for the continuous supply of inspiring posts. I have been a 'passive' reader for some time now and enjoy the insightful information. One thing that keeps puzzling me is the proportions of peoples 'numbers' in the various disciplines. For me I have a static of 4:00, 80m DNF, -20 CWT (only really tried once, read newbie). 16x50m is not to dream of no matter in what time. I doubt I could finish a set of 16x25m with an interval of less than 2 min between lanes. I wonder where I am 'out of sync' and how to become a more balanced diver. My contractions start at 30m. Never quite sure if its lack of relaxation or lack of CO2 tolerance that holds me back most.

 

[Kars]

First of all, thanks a lot Kars, for the continuous supply of inspiring posts. I have been a 'passive' reader for some time now and enjoy the insightful information. One thing that keeps puzzling me is the proportions of peoples 'numbers' in the various disciplines. For me I have a static of 4:00, 80m DNF, -20 CWT (only really tried once, read newbie). 16x50m is not to dream of no matter in what time. I doubt I could finish a set of 16x25m with an interval of less than 2 min between lanes. I wonder where I am 'out of sync' and how to become a more balanced diver. My contractions start at 30m. Never quite sure if its lack of relaxation or lack of CO2 tolerance that holds me back most.

Thank Penyu, yes I'm attempting to inspire peopl trust in the human and their ability.

From your story I get the impression you can use some improved aerobic ability, improoving your cirulation and recovery times. What you furthermore need is an inspireing experience, to help you believe you can do it. Try 8 x 25, with a 2' interval start time. Have a coach guiding you on this journey of co2 exploration. Your goal is t have a consistant technique and keep it while you feel the co2 and lactic acid build up. Swim your normal speed. With 2' interval time you have about 95 seconds to surface and breath, plenty of time as it reflects the start of a very easy co2 static table. When I was doing my pb 16X50 I was hyperventilating in the 15 soconds I had to breath. One advanced tip: exhale just before you surface, this way you safe the time of exhaling on the surface. btw there is no need for surface protocol as O2 is not a concern.
I am very confident you'll find the 8x25 surprisingly easy, and when you do after the 4th lane you can command your coach to reduce the interval time a bit. Doing schedules is fun to me because I notice my improving efficiency, I enjoy a cool rhythm, feel I'm using my time very efficient, have a great sense of accomishment afterwards. I believe it is very good co2 training, actually a training that combines many abilities: swim efficiency, condition, lactic tolerance, efficient breathing, consistancy, focus, quickly shifting from high metabolism to low (focus on this!) and off cause the CO2.

 

[Penyu]

Thanks for all the advice. Just back from the pool. Did a 16x25 with a start interval of 1'30''. Since this was probably just a tad too easy I added another 8x25 at 1'15''. This started to feel like it would get quite challenging had I had the time to do a full set of 16. I know the golden rule of never diving alone and the unpredictability of BOs, but would you say that this exercise is quite safe due to ventilation periods of > 30'' and short apnea intervals, even if the felt pressure to breathe due to the CO2 built-up becomes quite considerable?

 

[growingupninja]

CO2 training (hypercapnic) can be made far safer than low O2 training (hypoxic), but at higher intensity, as you cross further past your lactic threshold, the muscles will pull O2 from the blood to metabolize accumulated waste products, and this can make you more hypoxic than you expect.

 

[Kars]

Thanks for all the advice. Just back from the pool. Did a 16x25 with a start interval of 1'30''. Since this was probably just a tad too easy I added another 8x25 at 1'15''. This started to feel like it would get quite challenging had I had the time to do a full set of 16. I know the golden rule of never diving alone and the unpredictability of BOs, but would you say that this exercise is quite safe due to ventilation periods of > 30'' and short apnea intervals, even if the felt pressure to breathe due to the CO2 built-up becomes quite considerable?

I believe with more then you 30 seconds break for 25m dives you will alright if you do breath enough. On the otherhand I have to recommend to have a person walk along and coach and observe you on dives that are about meeting or approaching personal limits or new terretory.

What you can do, now you have a baseline to compare too, is vary your techniques and see how those work out.

Having no buddy sucks... I have often the same problem. So I do only easy breath-holds and work on the other components that are needed for long dives.