Been practising 16x25m for couple of weeks now. I feel quite comfortable on a 1 min. cycle. In fact a little too comfortable so that I'd like to step it up a bit. I wonder if one can roughly quantify the time it takes to be fully oxygenated again? Are three hook breaths and three full diaphragm/chest/shoulders breaths enough for sufficient blood O2 saturation? Surely in comps the ventilation times are much shorter. This is of course is very individual, but I wonder if there is any kind of research or knowledge about this out there. If there was this kind of training seems ideal if one has no buddy.
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Example for DYNAMIC co2 tables
- Thread starterJulia
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Thread Status: Hello
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Been practising 16x25m for couple of weeks now. I feel quite comfortable on a 1 min. cycle. In fact a little too comfortable so that I'd like to step it up a bit. I wonder if one can roughly quantify the time it takes to be fully oxygenated again? Are three hook breaths and three full diaphragm/chest/shoulders breaths enough for sufficient blood O2 saturation? Surely in comps the ventilation times are much shorter. This is of course is very individual, but I wonder if there is any kind of research or knowledge about this out there. If there was this kind of training seems ideal if one has no buddy.
My pb is 12'29", with a start time interval of about 45". I did have a headache after it that lasted for about 10-15 minutes. I believe it was because of CO2, but it maybe also because of O2 shortage? of even lactic acid.
Edit:
12'29"is for the 16x50m, with a monofin during a competition in Berlin with the much needed coaching of Igor Migunov! - at the time it was the 6th best registered time ever.
I think I should be paid money to try to improve on this; it was very tough on the mind to keep going after the 8th lane, if it wasn't for Igor I would have quit right there.
Edit:
12'29"is for the 16x50m, with a monofin during a competition in Berlin with the much needed coaching of Igor Migunov! - at the time it was the 6th best registered time ever.
I think I should be paid money to try to improve on this; it was very tough on the mind to keep going after the 8th lane, if it wasn't for Igor I would have quit right there.
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That's on 16 x 50m? That's amazing. Close to world record time, right? I'm talking about 16x25m
. In any case I wonder if the brief ventilation interval is enough to prevent BO from hypoxia. Theoretically a fresh lung full of air should be enough to bring blood saturation up again. Is there any data/resarch on that? Best regards from the Alps!Yes it was 16x50m,
12'29" with a monofin off cause, during a competition in Berlin with the much needed coaching of Igor Migunov! - at the time (2008) it was the 6th best registered time ever.
It was very tough on the mind to keep going after the 8th lane, if it wasn't for Igor I would have quit right there.
I am planing on climbing the Mont Blanc again late this summer, and I can say I have not much trouble with the 4600m of altitude.
12'29" with a monofin off cause, during a competition in Berlin with the much needed coaching of Igor Migunov! - at the time (2008) it was the 6th best registered time ever.
It was very tough on the mind to keep going after the 8th lane, if it wasn't for Igor I would have quit right there.
I am planing on climbing the Mont Blanc again late this summer, and I can say I have not much trouble with the 4600m of altitude.
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I have got a cheap model bought on amazon. I just wonder if a pulse oximeter (even a good one) registers the dropping of O2 saturation properly. Wouldn't vasoconstriction mean that the 'old' blood in the fingertips is not replaced, therefore still showing as relatively saturated, while blood closer to the core has already become more depleted of oxygen? On the other hand I guess that once ventilating blood gets pumped around again immediately, so saturation levels at the fingertips become meaningful again. Again, is there any research on this stuff that you are aware off? Would be interesting to know, rather than guess...
That is an amazing achievement. I am thoroughly impressed. With my humble routine I do not even come close to pushing hard for lack of a buddy/coach. I'd be too worried to try another lane if urge to breath and contractions become severe.
Regarding the Mont Blanc I guess its the same as with diving in the sea: fitness is by far not the only concern and in the wrong conditions even an 'easy' mountain like Mont Blanc can become treacherous.
During vasoconstriction fingertip reading may be less reliable but during recovery breaths, core should almost certainly re-oxy before extremities. It isn't a device you bet your life on and certainly wont pull you off the bottom if you BO, just a training aid and a way to get glimpse of what is going on with your blood.
Kars: would love to hear about your climbing trip. I live at sea level and don't make it altitude much but on some winter mountain trips last year (only a few thousand meters) went running... It was really interesting, i could tell my O2 level was lower than normal but it was so easy compared to dive trainig since CO2 level never became elevated.
Kars: would love to hear about your climbing trip. I live at sea level and don't make it altitude much but on some winter mountain trips last year (only a few thousand meters) went running... It was really interesting, i could tell my O2 level was lower than normal but it was so easy compared to dive trainig since CO2 level never became elevated.
Thanks, will play around with it. Just wanted to know if there is a point at all, or if the readings are too unreliable to be meaningful at all.
A friend of mine (non-diver) came back from a month trekking at an altitude close to 5000m in the Himalayas and managed 5:30 static!!! Now he is back to 1:30. I think the idea that holding your breath is a cool thing caught on with him though.
About my last years climb, it was with a friend, who's idea it was to do it, we had good weather, and good knowledge about our selves and good communication. Also we made clear agreements when we would turn or stop. The biggest factor is weather, with good weather most with a good condition can do it, I believe. We had good weather. As a preparation we cycled from the Netherlands through Belgium, France and Switserland to Chamonix at a pace of about a 140km a day. It was a cool adventure in itself, from camping in the wild, to finding a bicycleshop, to interaction with the French police - No we do not use doping Arriving in Chamonix I really needed a couple of days for recovery, as I had given my all in keeping up with my friend who was in a bit better condition. On the mountain the roles were reversed, as my friend got lactic, and did not have the capacity to oxygenate his muscles as good as my body could. It was on the tail end of the season and it was beautiful weather and quiet, with hardly any other hikers. Lovely. I like taking photo's and if wanted I could loose hours shooting everything around me. But my friend is very time aware and makes sure we are at the 2nd refuge in time for diner. In the evening at 3000m we're overseeing a glacier and waves of mountains under a splendid sunset as we're melting snow to make our soup.
The next day we started just before dawn to attempt the top. The gorge we needed to cross is a dangerous place where one falling rock could be fatal. After this and a technically easy climb we reached the 3rd refuge. Without pause we went on escalating the Col du Dôme. This was steep walk on firm snow with our crap ons. In order to not acid up we needed to regulate our pacing, so we did a little schedule, 30 paces, 5 breaths. At around 12:45 we're arrive on the dome, with top in sight. My friend had a tough time, was feeling cold and was looking exhausted, and with the prediction of the weather getting bad later on we decided to turn there. Just like in dynamic one has to be rational pragmatic in the end, and not let your aspirations tempt you. On the way down the snow stated to get down and finding the red dots and the way back was getting much harder. This is a very good reason why you want to hire a guide!
Arriving at the gorge we arrived a bit to high above it, and tried a short cut down. Not a good idea, as the loose gravel got covered with a thin layer of snow it became rather dangerous. So turn, get back up and go round. After we safely crossed the george we saw a group who we had overtaken on the way down follow our wrong example.. Stop, go back, go around I yelled, and thankfully they understood. A moment or two later I heard and saw from the corner of my eye a bunch of rocks coming down through the george. Take cover! I yelled at my buddy as we threw ourselves at side of the ridge. We saw rocks the size of washing machines bounce past us into the abyss with incredible speeds. Later on in the refuge we treated ourselves a warm diner to absorb the powerful experiences. We had made it, and have faced challenge and danger. I felt very much alive and at home in this environment. The people we met were all very interesting, good natured, warm and encouraging. So much so that it made me think about the character shaping properties of such changeling environment.
The bicycling trip home was again very adventurous, we met again wonderful people, slept in a farm, on a haystack, along dirt roads under poncho's, and had our share of broken spokes in our rear wheels of our race bikes. At the Dutch Belgium border we went for the locally famous French fries stand to reward ourselves. To our very disappointment the stand was closed, but we ran into a big surprise, as a tall slender man noticed us and asked: "have I seen you guys just a week ago on the Mont Blanc?" Yes you have! What are the odds, and now I'm thinking Forest Gump and his mother's box of chocolates, jummy!
Arriving in Chamonix I really needed a couple of days for recovery, as I had given my all in keeping up with my friend who was in a bit better condition. On the mountain the roles were reversed, as my friend got lactic, and did not have the capacity to oxygenate his muscles as good as my body could. It was on the tail end of the season and it was beautiful weather and quiet, with hardly any other hikers. Lovely. I like taking photo's and if wanted I could loose hours shooting everything around me. But my friend is very time aware and makes sure we are at the 2nd refuge in time for diner. In the evening at 3000m we're overseeing a glacier and waves of mountains under a splendid sunset as we're melting snow to make our soup.The next day we started just before dawn to attempt the top. The gorge we needed to cross is a dangerous place where one falling rock could be fatal. After this and a technically easy climb we reached the 3rd refuge. Without pause we went on escalating the Col du Dôme. This was steep walk on firm snow with our crap ons. In order to not acid up we needed to regulate our pacing, so we did a little schedule, 30 paces, 5 breaths. At around 12:45 we're arrive on the dome, with top in sight. My friend had a tough time, was feeling cold and was looking exhausted, and with the prediction of the weather getting bad later on we decided to turn there. Just like in dynamic one has to be rational pragmatic in the end, and not let your aspirations tempt you. On the way down the snow stated to get down and finding the red dots and the way back was getting much harder. This is a very good reason why you want to hire a guide!
Arriving at the gorge we arrived a bit to high above it, and tried a short cut down. Not a good idea, as the loose gravel got covered with a thin layer of snow it became rather dangerous. So turn, get back up and go round. After we safely crossed the george we saw a group who we had overtaken on the way down follow our wrong example.. Stop, go back, go around I yelled, and thankfully they understood. A moment or two later I heard and saw from the corner of my eye a bunch of rocks coming down through the george. Take cover! I yelled at my buddy as we threw ourselves at side of the ridge. We saw rocks the size of washing machines bounce past us into the abyss with incredible speeds. Later on in the refuge we treated ourselves a warm diner to absorb the powerful experiences. We had made it, and have faced challenge and danger. I felt very much alive and at home in this environment. The people we met were all very interesting, good natured, warm and encouraging. So much so that it made me think about the character shaping properties of such changeling environment.
The bicycling trip home was again very adventurous, we met again wonderful people, slept in a farm, on a haystack, along dirt roads under poncho's, and had our share of broken spokes in our rear wheels of our race bikes. At the Dutch Belgium border we went for the locally famous French fries stand to reward ourselves. To our very disappointment the stand was closed, but we ran into a big surprise, as a tall slender man noticed us and asked: "have I seen you guys just a week ago on the Mont Blanc?" Yes you have! What are the odds, and now I'm thinking Forest Gump and his mother's box of chocolates, jummy!
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It helps to increase your static breathold, no? I ve read in many sources that this kind of dry training does increase your tolerance in diaphragm contractions and thus in expanding your breathold. Apologies for coming back to this Mark, as a newbie.. I am trying to learn- thanks.
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Hehe, I tried to slim 2,5 weeks down to a page, but indeed an unforgettable trip.
I'm sure when you do a spearfishing weekend, your stories will sound just as credible to the uninitiated
Love to hear the readers liking it
, thanks!I'm planning to do a long hike, GR20 over Corsica from the 5th to the 19th of October, I'm sure it will be interesting as it is just a bit out of season, and refuges are closed. Yes I love collecting experiences. Maybe I should write them into longer stories?
As a newbie myself to the training aspect for breath hold might I ask something?
Are there any suggestions for dynamic apnea training "dry"? My pool time is often limited by work schedule and having a safety partner there. I would rather be safe about dynamic training than be found floating.
Thanks,
Scott
Are there any suggestions for dynamic apnea training "dry"? My pool time is often limited by work schedule and having a safety partner there. I would rather be safe about dynamic training than be found floating.
Thanks,
Scott
Hello, I was wondering how helpful exercise like mountain biking is for maintaining diving fitness in your opinions. I train 3 to 4 times a week for 1 hour. I use a HRM and intervals to improve recovery ability. I don't have a breath up technique while diving and just do what my body tells me, whist being very conscious not to hyperventilate. My diving feels as though it has very similar demands to the way I train without the forced exertion. I have been diving for 35 years and see so much information on this forum from experienced people that it has triggered an interest in developing a safe method for me to dive longer, not so much deeper(20m is normal). This is such an individual area and my diving at 49 is the same as when I was 20. I don't suffer CO2 contractions while diving unless its a dive over 1 minute and then its mild and surface immediately. Safety is my primary concern and relaxation is not an issue so is there a real improvement achievable without increased risk.