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Exhale Diving for the "average" diver

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I'm going waaay back to the original post about the "average diver." I'm a purely recreational freediver (swim around and look at stuff), so my goal is to maximize my comfort at both the surface and my target depth. The advantage I see to FRC is that I can use a lot less weight at the surface to achieve neutral buoyancy at depth. Being able to breathe naturally and remain buoyant at the surface is key after a long day of diving. I also really like being able to kick once or twice and then float back to the surface.
 
Precisely!

You describe my diving pretty well (plus a bit of spearing) and why I like FRC so well. Laminar once said the best use of FRC is recreational diving, I agree.

Connor
 
Reactions: laminar
Came back to this thread after a few years. Back then I found it very interesting but I think I was not ready to jump in yet. I now strongly feel the time has come to start on my frc journey.
My initial plan is to start pool training with DNF and slowly move to the sea with CNF.
The first questions I have are the following. Could anyone suggest a rough training plan to begin pool practice ?
Also, is there anyone that offers FRC training in Europe or Egypt ?
Thank you for any info...
 
Reactions: laminar

Look at the first page or two of the thread, worked for me.
 
I did indeed read the first page as all the other ones. Will go back and look closer...
Still searching for someone with experience who can offer hands on training.
 
noa said:
I did indeed read the first page as all the other ones. Will go back and look closer...
Still searching for someone with experience who can offer hands on training.
Click to expand...

I think you should contact FFLupo (deeperblue forum name), he's in Spain and dives exhale for years, and is now working as an AIDA instructor. He's a great guy I've dived with, who really does the research and work, highly recommended.
 
Reactions: noa
Thanks Kars, I'll look him up.
Do you know where in Spain he is based ?
 
Mallorca, the island in the Mediterranean, south of Barcelona, and East of Valencia; the biggest one Say Hi from me!
 
Kars said:
Mallorca, the island in the Mediterranean, south of Barcelona, and East of Valencia; the biggest one Say Hi from me!
Click to expand...
Appologies for the month long reply. Been very busy and distracted...
Will be sure to give greetings, thank you very much for the tip !
 
I have been experimenting exhale dive for a few months. I usually run into a strange condition when pushing it. I started with doing FRC dnf pool swimming. Every dive on my recovery breath, I feel ranging from light tingling on my fingers to light hands/legs shaking for 1-2 sec if I push it a bit. My head was still clear so at first I thought it must be the strong dive response, so I kept on doing for about 20 dive for a session. I can only do about 45m though as im not sure what would happen if I push further. Also i also feel a little numb on my tongue which may stay for an hour after dive

I tried partial exhale on free immersion to sub 30m I can feel a small version of the symptom. On full lung I ran into it on deeper dive but noticeably milder.

So I thought, great, this must be a strong dive response. I also pee quite often while diving, like 8 times in 1.5 hour.

Today was interesting, I did a dry full lung breath up in the morning, not pack, but just compress my chest and lift it up to fill the shoulder part, then i standed up with my eyes closed I felt the thing on my finger. I was like WOW dry dive response. I tried to pack and stand up, nothing happened, so I tried without pack and stand up eyes closed listening to music for one more time, the next thing I remember was I was on the ground with my hands shaking for a couple secs just like the FRC swimming but with losing a brief of conscious . I carefully tried it a few more times with eyes open and focus, it did not come.

I guess I might be a low blood pressure kinda guy. Sometimes I have light headed when standing up from long sit on a hot day.

So is this dive response or samba? I experienced a BO while diving once. It wasn't like this, as my buddy told me i surfaced, took one breath, rolled eyed and fell asleep.
 

Shaking is not dive response, it means you are at the very edge of samba. Lucky you did not BO in the water. If you are going to continue you should look into a pulse oxy meter.
 
Hard to tell. If you were full lung diving, I agree with Lance. FRC is a bit different. I get "wiggly" hands, I really want to wiggle my fingers on the way up from longer, deeper, half lung dives. Sounds a lot like your paragraph 1. I'm pretty sure mine is dive reflex.

An oxymeter is really handy.

Paragraph 4, not sure I understand, but don't have a clue. Sure doesn't sound like dive reflex.
 
It does feel like blood flowing back to the limbs on milder version. The shaking is added when it gets stronger. I guess maybe the brain has learned from FRC swimming to pull the blood from the limb every time it senses something unusual.

I have a finger tip pulse/spo2 monitor. I will give it a try.
 
Tingling and pins and needles are normal strong dive response, a result of vasoconstriction. The shaking isn't. If you are hypoxic enough to be shaking/twitching you are also probably also experiencing some degree of dive response.

You can have a strong dive response without actually being at the edge of samba but it would be nearly impossible to be at that point WITHOUT some kind of hypoxia induced dive response.
 
growingupninja said:
You can have a strong dive response without actually being at the edge of samba but it would be nearly impossible to be at that point WITHOUT some kind of hypoxia induced dive response
Click to expand...

I think deep diving is an exception. According to studies, the strongest bradycardia is observed during the last phase of descent. At this time arterial pO2 is even higher than normal due to lung compression.
 
MarcinB said:
I think deep diving is an exception. According to studies, the strongest bradycardia is observed during the last phase of descent. At this time arterial pO2 is even higher than normal due to lung compression.
Click to expand...

?? Maybe my post was confusing. Deep diving or cold water diving is exactly what I mean--during freefall diver is not actually hypoxic but is experiencing strong dive response. A very good thing. But 99% of the time a diver who is truly hypoxic, near samba, is also going to experience some degree of bradycardia and vasoconstriction because the body is trying to deal with extreme hypoxia. It is a hardwired survival response.
 
Hi, I'm an occasional contributor to this thread, most of my exhale diving (aside form FRC equalisation drills) is in the pool doing DYN/DNF which I have had some success with. My experience is that the DR will be much stronger/faster while diving on FRC and so DR related symptoms may be much more noticeable. One sign/symptom described above may however be related to high CO2. I experience a fine tremor (quite unlike the slower jerking/shaking of a LMC) when I dive on FRC, dry face, tidal breathing, exhale and dive, this I have attributed to a response to very elevated CO2. For me the difference between tremor/no tremor is one deep inhale preceding exhale Vs tidal breathing only preceding exhale. Ie I only get it when I maximise the starting CO2.
 
That's fascinating, Phil, and fits right in with my experience. When I was experimenting with FRC, trying to find the right combination for a guy with poor co2 tolerance, I found that (stub)tidal breathing, inhale and go, was too much c02. I could do long dives, but very uncomfortable. When I added a 2-3 half lung purges(not too different from one big purge) that seemed to get me to the right combination of slightly elevated co2 and long comfortable dives.
 
Well, today I upgraded my FRC free immersion pb to 30m so I thought, yeah this is a lovely day. Next fews dive I went for CW hanging there until the first contraction then kicked up and had a good samba on surface that spooked my buddy.

Despite some effort to descend, the first contraction seemed to come way late, feeling comfortable to stay there forever.

Is there an explanation why contraction at depth comes late or feels too nice besides hyperventilation? Pretty sure with the same breath up, if I just put my face on the surface of water with the same amount of kicking I would have a good set of contraction.

Anyway I think I have to give the minimal shallow breath up a try as my body does not seem to like typical structured breath up. Also I'm diving with 2 cups of rice soup 4 hours before, I guess that is too less.
 
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