Few questions about Monofilament Rigging Line

[NorthWesternAdriatic]

I have two questions regarding the mentioned:

1) What length of Monofilament Rigging Line do I need for a 100 cm rifle (Pathos Open Laser Pro) - namely, this summer I shortened that nylon thread several times and put new remaches, so I must have shortened it from the original length by which approx. About 50 cm (on the invoice from the store, it says that 5.5 m of material was used?)

A Babolat tennis thread was put on for rackets - but in my opinion, it is too "hard" and would often "break", twist, blow and so on... not so happy with it...

2) What knot is used to connect the Monofilament Rigging Line (nylon thread) and the rope on the Pathos Wheel ("mulline" - we call it here)?

Here's a picture of what it looks like originally from the store, I'm interested because I might soon replace the entire nylon pre-tie/thread on my gun.

Question: are there stores in the EU that actually make rubber bands to measure, that is, ready for installation? (I have 2x16mm, I think they are progressive, original natural latex black from Pathos, circular, I think they are either 64 or 66 cm, not sure about it, I must check) - I'm asking, because I don't want to make my own rubbers, and spend money on "T" tool and so on...

 

[Mr. X]

Hi, I don't use knots for monofilament spear-line, I use crimps. I think they are aluminum ( very easy to crimp). They consist of 2 parallel tubes.

5.5m sounds a lot but did you get a "double wrap"? A normal single wrap would probably be about 3.5m for your 100cm speargun. 5.5m sounds about right for a double wrap.

It is usually heavy duty fishing line I think. Which is often clear. I sometimes use bulk strimmer ( weed whacker) line. Often orange or lime green. Also, I occasionally use it as a "ghost leader" to extend my float line (FYI Rob Allen sell Ghost leaders and their Mako spearline, no doubt both very high specification and robust good quality products. I liked the Mako spearline on my RA railgun - very good).

 

[Mr. X]

Oh I see, knot in the rigging line? I use a muzzle bungee - they often have clips, so no knot.

But more recently I used lighterweight Omer "rubber bones" as the shock-absorber. I think I use a double-sheet bend ( the brave/optimistic might try a single- sheet-bend but they don't fill me with confidence).

Why do I use sheet-bends? They are relatively easy to undo, if you ever need that, and redo.
" Buyer beware: your mileage may vary"

 

[Mr. X]

Oh, I last bought nice, fresh, bulk rubber from spearitco.com in the USA. They offered a good selection of products at reasonable prices at the time.

I did buy some spare bulk rubbers* from the closing down sale of the old spearfishingstore.co.uk. But it has changed ownership and the last time I tried to visit it had moved from a shop in Paignton to a house basement in Totnes. May well have changed location again since?

* One rubber was tailor made for my 95cm Apnea Amarok rollergun. Unfortunately it seems thicker than my current band, I would have preferred it to be a little thinner, but the price was good as store was closing.

For sizing rubbers, there are several formulas around. ( I think one assumed an optimal stretch of x3.5?!). But I use Rob Allen's chart as my guide .

I sometimes cut the rubbers a bit longer, so easier to load and can be cut back further later, for more power or to get rid of perished ends.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I don't understand the question about length of monofilament shooting line. Is it actually possible to buy a specific length? What it it turns out to be few mm short? Then you have to throw it away and buy another piece. I've always purchased bulk rolls of monofilament and then just unrolled it until I had enough to fit. It's not expensive.

As Mr X said, crimps work better than knots and you need a proper crimping tool to squeeze them.

 

[musubi]

If I'm understanding the questions correctly, here is my feedback.
I buy bulk shooting line and cut to fit. Meaning, I attach one end of the mono to my shaft, then wrap my shooting line on the gun, then cut to the length I need or want. I use 400 lb mono, but everyone has their preference on lb test.

For the connection between the shooting line and the reel line, I use a swivel, where the tied end is tied to the reel line. That way when I unclip it, the shooting line can be pulled through the fish much easier. The swivel I use is a snap swivel that's rated for 230 lbs (for my reef shooting).

 

[NorthWesternAdriatic]

yeah but with the swivel too, you need two knots, on the both side of the swivel, am I right?

I didn't understand what mister X said - how you can connect with metal crimp only nylon mono with line/rope? then you need two crimps, but i don't like this solution

can someone post their setup, how is connected?

https://fishing.scoutlife.org/8-fishing-knots-to-know/ (this one I have is improved clinch knot, I think)

p.s. rubber amortisers/rubbers are mounted only when spearguns doesn't have mulinels, reels - wheels - if I got it right (mine has 30 m of black line)

 

[popgun pete]

I don't use mono normally, but have on occasion. While line fishermen all use mono and tie knots in it they are not dealing with the loads spearfishermen face. A knot lowers the strength of mono by the virtue of how the line works on itself in tight turns, so crimps are used to squeeze a metal sleeve on the line. To join mono shooting line to a reel line you put an end loop In the mono secured with a crimp and then tie the woven line through the mono loop. Woven line strength can also be affected by knots, but for practical purposes we don't worry about it. One of the quickest knots to tie is the bowline which is secure when wet. There are variations on the bowline knot using more turns in the line loop before passing the line end through, but the plain vanilla bowline is the one I always use.

For big fish like a Halibut, which can be the size of a flying carpet, guns can be equipped with a heavy woven line secured by copper crimps. That is how Jack Prodanovich rigged his Halibut guns and I am fortunate enough to own one. The gun used to belong to Bill Lemmon who got it new from Jack when he worked on Jack's van. No Halibut here, but I bought the gun anyway. I used to write to Jack and regularly sent him our IFSN magazine, but sadly both are now gone.

You need to buy a crimping tool, they about 50 bucks, and a bag of crimp sleeves which come in various sizes. You squeeze the sleeve just back from the end or you may cut the line with the end of the crimp. Mono is like a tomato, sllce the skin and the strength evaporates. A nick in 300 pound mono and you can pop it with a sharp jerk, less than 50 pounds of pull. Fish using every ounce of strength in desperation put plenty of jerks into your line.

Check out other divers' shooting line set-up and use that as a guide, guns that have battle scars will have done plenty of underwater work.

 

[popgun pete]

Guns use rubber shock units in the line to absorb the initial jerk as your prey takes off wearing a new accessory, your spear shaft. They are essential on open muzzle guns as the line tension with the rubber pipe slightly stretched keeps the spear in your gun by clamping the spear down at the front. Reel equipped guns just snug the line up by turning the reel, so don't use rubber tube shock absorbers. Under tension most of the time these rubber tubes last a season, maybe two, so you need to learn how to replace them. A simple task once you know how, you just need the slim rubber pipe and cut it to size based on the old one.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Maybe this will help. A snap swivel is attached to the reel line. Then the swivel is attached to a loop crimped into the mono shooting line.

 

[popgun pete]

Cranking line back onto your reel usually puts twists in it which transfer to anything attached in front of it, like your mono. Heavy duty fishing reels use line swivels, particularly eggbeater reels, which is why marine use swivels are widely available. Again the swivels come in different sizes. There are a lot more clip options than there used to be, a lot come from the ranks of pro-fishermen dragging big fish out for a living.

 

[musubi]

yeah but with the swivel too, you need two knots, on the both side of the swivel, am I right?

I didn't understand what mister X said - how you can connect with metal crimp only nylon mono with line/rope? then you need two crimps, but i don't like this solution

can someone post their setup, how is connected?

https://fishing.scoutlife.org/8-fishing-knots-to-know/ (this one I have is improved clinch knot, I think)

p.s. rubber amortisers/rubbers are mounted only when spearguns doesn't have mulinels, reels - wheels - if I got it right (mine has 30 m of black line)

The picture Bill provided is how I was describing the setup. So only one tied knot needed.

Regarding the rubber question in the original post, you can probably find pre-made bands for the Pathos, or someone willing to make them for you. However, it's not ideal in my opinion. I'd recommend making your own bands and experimenting with the power. There is "too much power" and a lot of times I see pre-made bands too powerful.

I tried the T handle tool and it doesn't work well for me. I use a needle nose pliers. I hope you find something that works out.

 

[popgun pete]

 

[Bill McIntyre]

That was a nice video that Pete posted. I notice that he was using small ID rubber and I've found that it's very hard to insert a dynema wishbone without slipping and losing a lot of blood. So for the last few years I've been using these stainless inserts from Mako spearguns. They are very easy to insert in the rubber. They may be expensive, but then they never wear out. You can use the same ones for new bands forever and you can adjust the length of your wishbone by slipping the sheep bend through the hole in the insert.

 

[musubi]

That was a nice video that Pete posted. I notice that he was using small ID rubber and I've found that it's very hard to insert a dynema wishbone without slipping and losing a lot of blood. So for the last few years I've been using these stainless inserts from Mako spearguns. They are very easy to insert in the rubber. They may be expensive, but then they never wear out. You can use the same ones for new bands forever and you can adjust the length of your wishbone by slipping the sheep bend through the hole in the insert.
View attachment 59257

I think these would be great to use. I personally wouldn't be able to use this in my setup, but beats making and inserting those dyneema/spectra wishbones.

I've somehow always been worried this might pop out and inflict damage on myself, but I'm usually very meticulous on tying my knots secure so maybe I need to get over that. I haven't ever had one pop out.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I haven't had one of the stainless inserts pull out so far and I would think that it's less likely than with a knot on the end of dynema since the ball on the insert is considerably bigger than that knot.

 

[NorthWesternAdriatic]

Maybe this will help. A snap swivel is attached to the reel line. Then the swivel is attached to a loop crimped into the mono shooting line.

Finally!

Thank You very much sir!

That's what I've been searching for!

Today, I cut off my original knot-from-the-store, I've put larger swivel like your's and now - it's awesome!

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Great! Pictures truly are worth a thousand words sometime. But now that we have you using a snap swivel, here is an alternative that may be even better- the Rob Allen slip knot. I have my reel guns rigged this way but haven't shot a fish with it. But some friends of mine who shoot lots of big fish swear by it.

 

[Sorcerer]

Snap swivel I personally do not recomend. It will snap (what a coincidence with name) on any decent sized fish that will pull hard.

When I see Rob Allen use one in their blue water breakaway system my mind is like "Oh no oh no oh nononono"

I still have a video somewhere where a heady duty snap swivel gets completly evaporated by wahoo when my reel got stuck after 10m and I had no time to react and let it go lol. It was like BANG. It didnt rip the mono, it didnt rip the crimps. The snap where the U turn is done simply got pulled out and broke lol.

I love RA recent approach for publicly shown testing, but some things need to be shock tested, as different loads and G's are pulled in such scenarios.
And as E. Musk says, the best part is no part.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I’ve used snap swivels for Marlin on rod and reel for many years without a failure. Marlin pull a lot harder than any fish I shoot. You can get ball bearing snap swivels rated to 500 pounds if you’re .worried. I be never had one fail spearfishing. And with his 100 cm gun, I doubt that the OP will shoot a fish that will stress his snap swivel.