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Fin Lineup - Any Questions?
- Thread starterunirdna
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Who ate all the pies?
I'm guilty of both pie-eating and kit hoarding!
Just ask Fiona...
I think those 'kiddy-fins' that Martin was using were Technisub Alas which are very good rubber fins. I do the same dynamic distances in them as I do with long bladed carbon fins in the pool. However, I wouldn't be keen on using them for depth because they aren't very good when you are very negatively buoyant.
Remember that Martin dived with those in Hawaii when the depth was restricted and he can do a lot more, so there wasn't an issue with fine-tuning efficency for that dive (from his standards - not mine!). He may also have been injured....
That aside, this thread isn't about hero worship, but about how good fins are. Do you think Martin would want to use plastic fins when going for his absolute max? I wouldn't imagine so.
Nevertheless, he has always been trying to make the point that your equipment is secondary to your 'skill' or ability. I think he makes that point better than anyone.
Ben
I'm guilty of both pie-eating and kit hoarding!
Just ask Fiona...I think those 'kiddy-fins' that Martin was using were Technisub Alas which are very good rubber fins. I do the same dynamic distances in them as I do with long bladed carbon fins in the pool. However, I wouldn't be keen on using them for depth because they aren't very good when you are very negatively buoyant.
Remember that Martin dived with those in Hawaii when the depth was restricted and he can do a lot more, so there wasn't an issue with fine-tuning efficency for that dive (from his standards - not mine!). He may also have been injured....
That aside, this thread isn't about hero worship, but about how good fins are. Do you think Martin would want to use plastic fins when going for his absolute max? I wouldn't imagine so.
Nevertheless, he has always been trying to make the point that your equipment is secondary to your 'skill' or ability. I think he makes that point better than anyone.
Ben
hi guys
Just got a new computer the other one buggered up
Sven I was very impressed with the eargerly awaited fin article top stuff
Coupla questions, you said it took 30secs to hit 100ft with the hybrids right, how long did it take using the matrix blades
And in terms of stiffness how did you rate the matrix 3's compared to the Specialfins line or maybe I missed it in the article.
I should be getting my custom 5# matrixes this friday or early next week, Id like to time a 100ft dive and compare it to your 3#'s
cheers
Just got a new computer the other one buggered up
Sven I was very impressed with the eargerly awaited fin article top stuff
Coupla questions, you said it took 30secs to hit 100ft with the hybrids right, how long did it take using the matrix blades
And in terms of stiffness how did you rate the matrix 3's compared to the Specialfins line or maybe I missed it in the article.
I should be getting my custom 5# matrixes this friday or early next week, Id like to time a 100ft dive and compare it to your 3#'s
cheers
Originally posted by ivan
I should be getting my custom 5# matrixes this friday or early next week, Id like to time a 100ft dive and compare it to your 3#'s
cheers
ivan, you'll get those fins this week, or first thing next week. I love these custom fins!! I need to get a pair for myself. No. 5 stiffness, extra long just look way cool.
PaulV
Re: Thanks much for the compliments folks!
Originally posted by icarus pacific
HUH? Kick cycles, lap times, down lines?? Hey when's a guy get to eat around here? :crutch
Seriously though, I've been talking with Mark at Technosport about doing a workup with the C4's and OMER BAT's, so stick around. Yes, he also let me in on the fact that he's backing the C4 against breakage- a very
I didn't do the pool thing as that's not my thing and I wouldn't be dakine judge on the fins ability to rub out the penny stains on the lanes :hmm but I've zero doubt that the Matrix blades or the slighty heavier finish of the Kelpies or the Hybrids couldn't put the hurt on the dynamic numbers. The edging on the Specialfins tips would certainly help keep things in place. As far as kick cycles, yeah. Whatever. zzz (that one will generate some mail...)
And as far as going down a line, my experience with thaty is more along the er, lines, of kelp stalks and anchors. I really think that you couldn't go wrong with the Matrix's as far as their length doing the flex thing. The Hybrids are a bit wider and rounder, but again, I can't see where the additional flex gained from the carbon held in one piece by the Kevlar could hurt. Far as I'm thinking, the smooth push of these things, the Matrix especially, would make me think less about any issues of getting back up before the stars start shing brighter behind my stylishly mirrored Mantis mask. :king
Sven, forgive me for carbon copying (no pun intended) your entire post. I just can't get enough of this site. You guys take it to the next level on your quest for fin knowledge.
That C4 fins break and you have to be careful with them is a misconception and pre conceived idea derived from other models of carbon fins. I was at the C4 factory last November and to reinforce any skepticism I had Marco Bonfanti, the owner of C4, slammed the carbon fiber fin as hard as he could on a table. Any polymer fin regardless of brand would have cracked or chipped the blade. The first time I tried them I dove on them in shallow reefs with hard coral for two weeks in Central America. Besides scratches that was it.
To sum it up in my opinion there are three categories of fins out there, plastic fins, fiberglass fins, and then there are C4's. We sell all three types so I'm not really biased towards one technology or the other and if it wasn't for the price I think more people would be believers. I am gambling however, that as more people use them they'll be believers too
I'd love to send you guys a pair to try out along with the BAT's but with five fully sponsored spearfisherman, a tournament in Hatteras, and two guys that like to wrestle sharks on tv if I give any more stuff away to try out I'll give the ol' man blood pressure a steep rise
Mark Laboccetta
Technosport Inc.
That C4 fins break and you have to be careful with them is a misconception and pre conceived idea derived from other models of carbon fins. I was at the C4 factory last November and to reinforce any skepticism I had Marco Bonfanti, the owner of C4, slammed the carbon fiber fin as hard as he could on a table. Any polymer fin regardless of brand would have cracked or chipped the blade. The first time I tried them I dove on them in shallow reefs with hard coral for two weeks in Central America. Besides scratches that was it.
To sum it up in my opinion there are three categories of fins out there, plastic fins, fiberglass fins, and then there are C4's. We sell all three types so I'm not really biased towards one technology or the other and if it wasn't for the price I think more people would be believers. I am gambling however, that as more people use them they'll be believers too
I'd love to send you guys a pair to try out along with the BAT's but with five fully sponsored spearfisherman, a tournament in Hatteras, and two guys that like to wrestle sharks on tv if I give any more stuff away to try out I'll give the ol' man blood pressure a steep rise
Mark Laboccetta
Technosport Inc.
Mark,
How about sending a pair up for Freedive-A-palooza? I know you mentioned to me buddy, Gert, that you would be sending up some gear to try and it would just be for the weekend in july.
If you do send some up, how about a pair of 25's or 30's. I already have a pair of 40's that people can try and am thinking about getting a pair of those- so I might just end up buying them from you at the end of the weekend.
Any recommendation on choosing between the two? (25 or 30)
Jon
How about sending a pair up for Freedive-A-palooza? I know you mentioned to me buddy, Gert, that you would be sending up some gear to try and it would just be for the weekend in july.
If you do send some up, how about a pair of 25's or 30's. I already have a pair of 40's that people can try and am thinking about getting a pair of those- so I might just end up buying them from you at the end of the weekend.
Any recommendation on choosing between the two? (25 or 30)
Jon
Originally posted by omer's mark
I'd love to send you guys a pair to try out along with the BAT's but with five fully sponsored spearfisherman, a tournament in Hatteras, and two guys that like to wrestle sharks on tv if I give any more stuff away to try out I'll give the ol' man blood pressure a steep rise
Mark Laboccetta
Technosport Inc.
Hey Mark, you'll get them back. :hmm Unless you have to sell them as seconds from the scratches from my pushing off the bottom, the ol' man shouldn't be too pushed out of shape. Hell, the PR is free.
Hey guys,
How about I send one pair of BAT's to Sven and a pair of C4 30's To Jon to try. Since Sven tested the fiberglass blades already and John has the C4 40's you guys could both give some input. You might want to check with Paul Kotic of this forum too since I think he has some.
When our next shipment of Bat's come in I'll send the fins out since we're out of the Bat 30's at the moment. Or you can try 40's?? Just keep in mind that if you way less than 180lbs or so the BAT 30's would feel better and if you're a strong diver that likes to dive deep or weigh over 180lbs the BAT 40's would be better suited.
I'm 195lbs 6'4" and I wear C4 30's for all my diving since its less than 90ft and these fins are very comfortable with an optimal comfort/power/ energy return. I think I'll use 40's when I start diving deep again if that ever happens
Both the C4 and the BAT's have a 30 meter or 40 meter rating, intending to mean if you're diving to and less than 30M/100ft the 30 is more ideal while if you plan on diving like a pro towards the 40M/120ft the stiffer blade is more efficient. They have a different feel from each other and perform slightly differently since one is fiberglass technology and the other is carbon fiber and this I think you will notice. How about you guys exchange blades amongst each other after you're done testing each one? sounds like the best way to compare them.
Mark
How about I send one pair of BAT's to Sven and a pair of C4 30's To Jon to try. Since Sven tested the fiberglass blades already and John has the C4 40's you guys could both give some input. You might want to check with Paul Kotic of this forum too since I think he has some.
When our next shipment of Bat's come in I'll send the fins out since we're out of the Bat 30's at the moment. Or you can try 40's?? Just keep in mind that if you way less than 180lbs or so the BAT 30's would feel better and if you're a strong diver that likes to dive deep or weigh over 180lbs the BAT 40's would be better suited.
I'm 195lbs 6'4" and I wear C4 30's for all my diving since its less than 90ft and these fins are very comfortable with an optimal comfort/power/ energy return. I think I'll use 40's when I start diving deep again if that ever happens
Both the C4 and the BAT's have a 30 meter or 40 meter rating, intending to mean if you're diving to and less than 30M/100ft the 30 is more ideal while if you plan on diving like a pro towards the 40M/120ft the stiffer blade is more efficient. They have a different feel from each other and perform slightly differently since one is fiberglass technology and the other is carbon fiber and this I think you will notice. How about you guys exchange blades amongst each other after you're done testing each one? sounds like the best way to compare them.
Mark
Fiberglas Vs. Carbon
Hello all,
I have tested Waterway (2, 3, and 4) Bat30s and C4 30s and 40s. I like the fiberglass fins better than the good ole plastic fins, they are a little too heavy for my taste though.
The Waterway 4s are very stiff, but will kick you up from depth very well. A little too stiff on the muscles for extended dives especially if the current is strong.
Bat30s are good all around fins, they're still too heavy for my taste but I love to use them around rocks and in shallow water. BTW, they are the same exact material as Matrix/Waterway.
C4 40s are my favourite fins, they're light and flexible, give a slightly better push than Waterway4s at depth and much easier to kick than the Fiberglass ones. For long dive days, I think the C4 30s would be best. If you're diving over 90', the 40s would really make a difference.
For the money, the fiberglass is a great value/performance compared to the old plastic fins.
For the best performance, look no further, the C4s are THEE BEST. Next to my C4 40s is a pair of Omer Rekord carbon fins. Shorter than the C4s for better maneuverability, but not as good a push as the C4 40s. I think that C4 30s would be very similar to the Rekords.
Rabih
Hello all,
I have tested Waterway (2, 3, and 4) Bat30s and C4 30s and 40s. I like the fiberglass fins better than the good ole plastic fins, they are a little too heavy for my taste though.
The Waterway 4s are very stiff, but will kick you up from depth very well. A little too stiff on the muscles for extended dives especially if the current is strong.
Bat30s are good all around fins, they're still too heavy for my taste but I love to use them around rocks and in shallow water. BTW, they are the same exact material as Matrix/Waterway.
C4 40s are my favourite fins, they're light and flexible, give a slightly better push than Waterway4s at depth and much easier to kick than the Fiberglass ones. For long dive days, I think the C4 30s would be best. If you're diving over 90', the 40s would really make a difference.
For the money, the fiberglass is a great value/performance compared to the old plastic fins.
For the best performance, look no further, the C4s are THEE BEST. Next to my C4 40s is a pair of Omer Rekord carbon fins. Shorter than the C4s for better maneuverability, but not as good a push as the C4 40s. I think that C4 30s would be very similar to the Rekords.
Rabih
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...and Id like a blind double placebo test with plastic fins being replaced by the sugar pill and results posted in Latin so as not to be culturally biased, unless youre Latin then you'll have to read the results in Chinese...
Good grief guys, we've got manufacturers graciously offering up their products for some review and everyone starts making demands...this aint Burger King!
Good grief guys, we've got manufacturers graciously offering up their products for some review and everyone starts making demands...this aint Burger King!
waterway comparison
Hey Rabih,
How do the waterway 2, 3,4 compare to each other. I was advised to get the 2 but they are a little too soft. Really nice on the surface but not much power at depth. I waas thinking about gong up to the 3 or maybe even the 4. Any thoughts? Thanks
Brad
Hey Rabih,
How do the waterway 2, 3,4 compare to each other. I was advised to get the 2 but they are a little too soft. Really nice on the surface but not much power at depth. I waas thinking about gong up to the 3 or maybe even the 4. Any thoughts? Thanks
Brad
Waterway Comparison
Wa3C,
The waterway 2 is really soft, great for long surface swims and shallow diving. 3 is the best all around stiffness, and should be fine for up to 70'. 4 is too stiff for surface swims, but give a really good push at depth. YOu need strong legs to use 4s, even then your legs may cramp on long dive days.
As always, each one of the different types/stiffnesses has its advantages and disadvantages.
Regards,
Rabih
Wa3C,
The waterway 2 is really soft, great for long surface swims and shallow diving. 3 is the best all around stiffness, and should be fine for up to 70'. 4 is too stiff for surface swims, but give a really good push at depth. YOu need strong legs to use 4s, even then your legs may cramp on long dive days.
As always, each one of the different types/stiffnesses has its advantages and disadvantages.
Regards,
Rabih
@Brad
Brad,
Jim Glynn hit 145' this summer using WW #2s. He weighs about 135 if memory serves. I guess that the point is that the #2s will probably take you as deep as you like.
That said, I have #4s and I don't think that they are overly stiff as long as you don't kick too hard. I weigh about 160 (+/- 5, depending on time of year, mood etc.). I would have preferred #3s, but the #4s were in stock.
I swear that mounting the blades opposite of the normal mounting scheme is crucial to getting the most out of the harder blades. That is, mount them such that you would see the scalped side of the blade if you were standing on a dock with the fins, looking down at your feet. :hmm Maybe I'm just superstitious on this point, but the blades really seem to flex more easily in one direction than the other and I believe that mounting them this way softens the front kick and makes the back-kick dig in -- kind of like an angle on the blade would do.
As far as cost is concerned, the WWs are hard to beat. You can put a set together for $150 if you shop hard for the footpockets. With Sporasub pockets, the blades are pretty comfortable. If you'd rather hunt fish than bargains, the Matrix fins seem reasonable, costing little more than the retail price of the blades and O.ME.R pockets.
The only thing I dislike is the extreme weight of the blades -- changes attitude in the water completely (at least in fresh water). You almost need to take 4 pounds off the belt and add a 2 pound neck-weight
Brad,
Jim Glynn hit 145' this summer using WW #2s. He weighs about 135 if memory serves. I guess that the point is that the #2s will probably take you as deep as you like.
That said, I have #4s and I don't think that they are overly stiff as long as you don't kick too hard. I weigh about 160 (+/- 5, depending on time of year, mood etc.
). I would have preferred #3s, but the #4s were in stock. I swear that mounting the blades opposite of the normal mounting scheme is crucial to getting the most out of the harder blades. That is, mount them such that you would see the scalped side of the blade if you were standing on a dock with the fins, looking down at your feet. :hmm Maybe I'm just superstitious on this point, but the blades really seem to flex more easily in one direction than the other and I believe that mounting them this way softens the front kick and makes the back-kick dig in -- kind of like an angle on the blade would do.
As far as cost is concerned, the WWs are hard to beat. You can put a set together for $150 if you shop hard for the footpockets. With Sporasub pockets, the blades are pretty comfortable. If you'd rather hunt fish than bargains, the Matrix fins seem reasonable, costing little more than the retail price of the blades and O.ME.R pockets.
The only thing I dislike is the extreme weight of the blades -- changes attitude in the water completely (at least in fresh water). You almost need to take 4 pounds off the belt and add a 2 pound neck-weight