FIPSAS: again...

[sgnips]

Hi all,
as some of you may know, FIPSAS (the "italian version" of CMAS) is someway fighting against comps other than theirs and impeding their athletes to participate in those other comps
Me, Gaspare Battaglia, Tommaso Buglioni and others have been disqualified form FIPSAS comps for months for taking part to Aida WC, Aida Swiss Champs, etc

Here is the last official letter we received from FIPSAS, then i'll post my final answer
We think this kind of behavior, although neccessary for them since they have a clear rule about it, is considerably limiting the italian freediving movement as a whole and limiting italian freedivers freedom

Please read and tell us what you think about it
Also, please note that i wrote my answer as a public letter and tried to publish it on the FIPSAS forum: my post has been suspended (=still not published) because, according to mr Azzali's words (mr Azzali is FIPSAS president and moderator of the forum), the forum is "strictly informative" and "read by just a few people" and this argument deserves a major public dignity...

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FROM FIPSAS (ITALIAN FEDERATION FOR SPORTFISHING AND DIVING ACTIVITIES).
TO GABRIELE SATTO

SUBJECT: COMMUNICATION RELATED TO SECTION 45.3 R.G.S.

Whit this communication, as brought to our attention by the General Segretary Mister Pasqualino Zuccarello, we inform you that, as you partecipated to the AIDA World Championship for Indoor Diving activities in Lignano Sabbiadoro, October 2011, 7 – 16, we set up disciplinary proceedings against you for violation of the rules of the Normative Circular 2011 (general part; sport competitions; pag. 13). The Normative Circular 2011 forbids to all members and cardholders to take part to sport competitions if organized by Societies and Organisations that are not affiliated to FIPSAS or that are not related with special agreements.

Therefore, according to the ex section 45.3 of the Sport Justice Regulations, we invite you to provide your counter-deductions within ten days from the receiving of this communication, and we invite you to provide an email address in order to send you all the communications concerning the proceedings against you.

Sincerely Yours
Federal Solicitor
Lawyer Franco Fancello

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FROM: GABRIELE SATTO

TO:
Lawyer Fancello (from which I receive the above communication)
Fipsas president mr. Azzali
Fipsas Executives

Dear Sirs,

I received notification of your new start-up of disciplinary proceedings.
I confess that I do not regret anymore to receive such communications, so I'll avoid comments on this and let you have fun the way you like. I also inform you that these will my last 3.90€ and the last minutes spent on your hysterical game.
However, I hope to please you leaving a brief comment on your view of the italian and international freediving world in a political and not legal way of course since this is the pure nature of the problem, although it is congenial to you to hide behind the thin finger of the anti-doping procedures and/or surface protocol and similar amenities to maintain high OBSTACLES against the harmonization between organizations.

These are merely POLITICAL CHOICES that have nothing to do with the pure sport and the athletic activity, but at the same time seriously affect the freedom of the athletes themselves!
I'm not the only one to observe that you have successfully got rid of every bit of reserve on your ability to manage apnea Italian sports: abroad there is little to no controversy beteween CMAS and Aida, looks like Italy is the very last case.

Some months ago I published on a public foreign forum a little background of the communications and the decisions you took about my participation to competitions organized by the "forbidden circles" in 2010. I wish to state I published this information with the highest detachment and objectivity I was able of (and I'm very good at this) and the result was a series of LAUGHS from all, in particular those that had similar problems (and no longer have) with their national CMAS in the past.

One certain thing is that the reason you used in the past year, the "lack of respect for the principles of integrity and sportsmanship as stated in Article 3 RGS" did not help to provide an image of reliability and consistency that should be typical of a National Federation: it gave more the idea of ​​a JOKE.
This year, in contrast, you have been solid and unassailable: the CN 2011 article you used is quite clear, even if I absolutely can't understand the criterion of "safeguarding the integrity of the athlete" ... bah ... this year I participated in two Aida comps and still I feel perfectly integer and I am sure other people feel exactly the same.

On thing that for me remains to be understood is if you did not want to use this article last year or if you realized you had it already written only this year, as it was already included in CN 2010.
It actually does not matter, it is true ... but I would bet on the latter.

In short, where is the STRATEGIC VISION on the freediving scene? Please do not come to tell me you are considering change and that you are open to change if, president Azzali, upon formal invitation, did not deign to attend the Aida World Championships in Lignano. It's your right of course but, for heaven's sake... it's an evident sign of openness and willingness to dialogue!
It would have been nice to know the reasons for this lack of participation ... or not?
You know, I'd like to see a Federation open not to Aida in particular or to other competition circuits, but open to the development of freediving in general, and this is NOT happening.

I'd like to see a federation that, instead of blocking or impeding non-federal activities, SUGGESTS alternative valid proposals, shares them (ever heard about the "open source" method of development? It's great), but still this DOES NOT happen.

Me and a large group of apnea-competent (here's the key: COMPETENT ...) and apnea-passionate people (key number two: passion ...) could give a big hand and a large number of ​​ideas that for sure have never yet touched your thoughts.
You lack smartness and will to do new things, you lack PASSION.

But dear sirs stay serene and keep heading, if you can not do without, on your own way, keep pursuing your foggy and blurred goals because the smartness, the desire to do and the passion for freediving, be sure, there someone else will deliver it.

The first being myself.
Yours sincerely and best wishes for a happy new year.

Gabriele Satto

Federal card 803708, expires 31/12/2011, actually no intention of renewing it

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Something similar has been written and published by Tommaso Buglioni, you can find it here: Log In | Facebook

Hope we can find a quick solution WITH FIPSAS and not AGAINST them

Thanks for reading

 

[Giobbi]

Man do i feel for u. Good thing that you break out of that.

One of the big problems with Freediving is to many organization NOT willing to compromise for example over a WC. To anal, to much politics in the way instead of visions, improvement etc.

Italia must be No 1 Org with their head up their but. Who do they think they are really?

 

[sgnips]

Thanks Giobbi,
Italy demonstrated to be capable of great things: just think about the great success of Europe Evolution Cups and the 2011 WC... a great event in which i had the honor to compete in

i will be working for that in the future, i hope we'll succeed

PLEASE SUPPORT US AND COMMENT AND SHARE OUR COMMUNICATIONS ON FACEBOOK:

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[trux]

I am rather saddened by the approach of FIPSAS. It is unfortunate that freedivers of one of the lands with the strongest and longest tradition of freediving (both modern and historical) have to suffer under such an autocratic dictatorship. It is very surprising seeing that FIPSAS goes on with this nonsense even after CMAS abandoned it.

Apnea.cz promotes peaceful and constructive coexistence of all existing freediving federations, and tries to bring all the athletes together by listing their results in the same ranking without discriminating any of the organizations. I have friendly relations with the top management of AIDA, CMAS, FFESSM and have very positive experience in communicating with many other federations too, but it is true that when I posted about the common global ranking on a forum related to FIPSAS three years ago, and proposed them a cooperation, I was surprised by the hateful answer I received there. So far FISPAS is probably indeed the only organization with such intolerant and discriminative behavior. Doesn't the "F" in the abbreviation FIPSAS come from "Fascist"?

 

[Mullins]

You did well to be so polite Gabriele. I'd have told them to go **** themselves.

 

[Simos]

Well Gabriele, I won't waste time writing things you already know - I would have reacted in a similar way and feel really saddened you have to put up with these silly politics, especially for a sport as small and non-commercial as freediving. I also find it shocking in itself that you are receiving letters on this by a lawyer?

In any case, I hope FIPSAS changes their views and rules on this soon or at the very least engages in some constructive discussion on these issues - somehow I don't see it happening though as they won't have any meaningful arguments and all this nonsense about integrity is... well... nonsense

 

[sgnips]

You did well to be so polite Gabriele. I'd have told them to go **** themselves.

Thanks Dave, that's my nature
but don't Worry: my friend Tommaso Buglioni sent them to that place as you can read from his letter


@Simos: a lawyer is writing because those are letters that inform me that a disciplinary process has been moved from FIPSAS against me, towards the Giudice Sportivo (i.e. the "italian sport judge", which is sort of a court competent for sport matters)

Leonardo D'Imporzano, Aida Italy president, keeps on talking with mr Azzali (FIPSAS president) on these arguments: it's a really hard work, not for the time or skills or efforts he has to bring in, but for FIPSAS (and mr Azzali's, as i had few conversations with him and i now can say i know him someway) nature, which is the nature of a super-hard-gum-wall... :head:head

 

[Simos]

Thanks Dave, that's my nature
but don't Worry: my friend Tommaso Buglioni sent them to that place as you can read from his letter


@Simos: a lawyer is writing because those are letters that inform me that a disciplinary process has been moved from FIPSAS against me, towards the Giudice Sportivo (i.e. the "italian sport judge", which is sort of a court competent for sport matters)

Leonardo D'Imporzano, Aida Italy president, keeps on talking with mr Azzali (FIPSAS president) on these arguments: it's a really hard work, not for the time or skills or efforts he has to bring in, but for FIPSAS (and mr Azzali's, as i had few conversations with him and i now can say i know him someway) nature, which is the nature of a super-hard-gum-wall... :head:head

I know it's easy for me to say but I think you guys should just join AIDA and be done with it - maybe it's the easy way out, I don't know, but at the end of the day you eventually have to go with reason.

 

[Goran Colak]

I do not understand why you Italians don't just boycott FIPSAS and do not compete for them at all. As far as I know, you have nothing from your organization in terms of benefaction and profit, so... what's the point of taking their shit?? In Croatia I get payed monthly for my appearances in CMAS WCh and Euro, and I get money for each gold medal. So I have some interest in all that, buy you do not have.. I was speaking with Ilaria, Michele and others... What's the point?? To be perfectly honest publicly, and I do not care anymore for consequences, I am ashamed to be called a CMAS diver when I attend any AIDA competition, truly ashamed after all CMAS has done for freediving.

 

[sgnips]

good point Goran, maybe our good athletes (Ilaria, Fucarino, Tomasi and so on) are not interested in attending AIDA comps, or they don't care to become a pro athlete like you actually are, even if Coni and Fipsas rules seem to assure some kind of token for each world/eur medal won
as far as i know, Fipsas keeps on promising bits of change, just the way they do about the problem showed above (hey guys, we're open to discuss, we want to do something, we'll see, well wait, be patient... hey!! you attended an Aida comp, you're disqualified!! :waterwork) but nothing moved and our athletes did not see a single euro for their results, apart from some expenses recovery for travelling/hotel in few official occasions

another problem is that, at this time, we have almost NO Aida comp in Italy: this is an issue we'll try to fix in few months: a depth event in july with national champ status, the usual EEC for sure and hopefully am indoor national champ
PLEASE NOTE: all of these events will be open to foreign athletes as our intention is to make them international events

 

[trux]

I am ashamed to be called a CMAS diver when I attend any AIDA competition, truly ashamed after all CMAS has done for freediving.

I do not think there is any reason to be ashamed to be CMAS competitor. Actually CMAS, since Levant Ucuzal took over the presidentship of the Apnea commission, is getting better and better. Not only they abandonned the stupid rule about banning non-CMAS competitors, but they reintroduced depth disciplines, and in fact they do much more for the development of freediving than AIDA does.

In Italy the situation is similar to France, with the exception that the French FFESSM is in a good relation with AIDA, and they cooperate well and friendly together. However, in both countries it is the CMAS (FIPSAS/FFESSM) who organizes the vaste majority of competitions (tens of them per year in each of those countries, versus one or two organized by AIDA). It is CMAS that helps creating clubs, or allows creating apnea sections in their scuba clubs and give them lanes in pools. It is CMAS, not AIDA who educates thousands of freedivers and instructors there.

I believe that on the side of FIPSAS, it is actually a misunderstanding. For some reason the management thinks that AIDA is a rogue and a reckless organization supporting doping, and without sufficient safety guidelines.

I remember that when I posted about the common AIDA+CMAS ranking on a FIPSAS forum, some of the managers answered that it was unnacteptable to compare doping athletes with those of FIPSAS, where they had anti-doping policies. He apparently had no idea that AIDA introduced anti-doping policies and applied them in praxis actually before CMAS. He did not want to hear it though, and I do not think he is going to change his opinion easily. Perhaps a personal meeting between the FIPSAS and AIDA managements could help. Persuading some top Italian competitors to start competing in AIDA competitions would be nice, but it won't happen easily unless AIDA Italy organizes as many competitions as FIPSAS, which is I am afraid rather unlikely.

 

[trux]

BTW, I see that Davide Carrera recently started at a FIPSAS Constant Weight competition. Didn't FIPSAS mind that he often competed in AIDA competitions in CWT? Or was he disqualified too, but came back to FIPSAS later again, after the disqualification expired?

 

[sgnips]

BTW, I see that Davide Carrera recently started at a FIPSAS Constant Weight competition. Didn't FIPSAS mind that he often competed in AIDA competitions in CWT? Or was he disqualified too, but came back to FIPSAS later again, after the disqualification expired?

this is another strange thing that happens here
i guess Dadive was not FIPSAS member at the time he attended Aida comps
he has also been forced to dive at a max depth of 40 or so because he was not an Elite category athlete and this limitation caused some discussion between him and the organizers

 

[BennyB]

You did well to be so polite Gabriele. I'd have told them to go **** themselves.

How do we go about getting Dave elected President of Europe?

 

[fcallagy]

Dave no 1

Gabriele I feel for you guys. Hope it works out in the end for all Italian freedivers.

 

[sgnips]

Dave no 1

Gabriele I feel for you guys. Hope it works out in the end for all Italian freedivers.

Dave n 1, i agree

Thanks Feargus, we'll make it work somehow :head

 

[ThomasB]

cut

He apparently had no idea that AIDA introduced anti-doping policies and applied them in praxis actually before CMAS. .

I'm not trying to defend fipsas here, which I honestly dislike for various reason, but can you confirm the above statement? Fipsas athletes are under the IOC and therefore are subject, in theory, to a standard and demanding antidoping protocol. I had no idea Aida athletes were under the same rigorous system.

 

[BennyB]

AIDA International have been dope testing under WADA regulations for many years - how many exactly i'm not sure but they've been written in the last couple of sets of AIDA regulations which would take it back to at least pre-2005. My guess would be since the mid 90's which is pretty close to AIDA's inception.

 

[ThomasB]

AIDA International have been dope testing under WADA regulations for many years - how many exactly i'm not sure but they've been written in the last couple of sets of AIDA regulations which would take it back to at least pre-2005. My guess would be since the mid 90's which is pretty close to AIDA's inception.

Does Aida check their athletes randomly outside competition?

 

[trux]

Does Aida check their athletes randomly outside competition?

It depends on the agreements between the national AIDA and WADA. For example in Czech Republic, Finland, and likely in other countries it does, but there is no global agreement in the same way as CMAS also does not have any global agreement with WADA/IOC about controls out of competitions. This needs to be managed on nantional level, because of differencies in laws of individual countries.