less air, longer hold???? can this be right

[yoda turtle]

I just did a bit of dry static and have discovered that if I dont do to much of a breath up (but get very relaxed) and don,t fill my lungs to capacity (am guessing to around two thirds) then not only did i manage to go to a new PB but I also had no contractions until the last 15 seconds. does this sound right ....... with less volume in my chest relaxing was a lot easier. I suppose its a whole different ballgame at depth. I am loving all this breath control and relaxation coupled with the athleticism this sport requires,its opened up a whole new world for me. and the info and knowledge shared on this forum is inspiring to say the least, thanks to you all

 

[sanso]

It might have been the different breathe-up that delayed Your contractions most (maybe You want to describe it?) - but if You find that You can relax better, that may well be the main reason for the longer breath hold. I think You are at a stage where not the absolute amount of Oxygen available to You, but but rather relaxation is the limiting factor in Your breathholds.

 

[monkeyhatfork]

I think opinion will vary on this, and if you look at the thread for the vertical blue comp. what can be done on frc is changing by the day, with that said all the world records , still done with packing. Don't know your experience level or pb so don't how far your pushing your statics or your breath-up,how often you do static, relaxation is certainly a key factor and initually this could be easier with a bit less air- but keep in mind you can increase this confort level with more air by lots of thoratic stretching(pack stretching helps) but might want to take a course to get into that stuff, flexibility can also help managing contractions.---I,m at an intermediate level right now, my PB right now is 4:30 contractions start as I neer 3:00, I got to 4:00 for the first time in a course and seeing the video my contractions were super violent the last minute, after a better stretching regiment I manage them allot better, for the moment I'm attributing that to better flexibility--this is with full breath-up full final breath. anyway thats just a few thaughts I'm sure others could give you a more specific advice.---take a course if you have not taken one, they work wonders almost instantly and expose flaws early before you cement them into bad habits

 

[yoda turtle]

my previous pb was 2.40 its now 3.16, I do a lot of swim training regularly but in the last 3 days have been away from the pool.... maybe this has made things easier. early days for me (been at it for two weeks now) the stretching makes a lot of sense now that i think about it so must add this in to my training. my breath up basically concists of some upper body stretches with deep inhails and long exhails then lying down and focusing on more abdominal breathing focusing allways on slow exhails. thats about it. I know I have a lot to learn yet

 

[sanso]

... I know I have a lot to learn yet

No worries, mate, sounds like there already is a very good base You're starting from. That, plus the days in Dahab, You'll be amazed where You're heading.

 

[alexrom1207]

I'm just beginning as well and I find that the more I try to fill my lungs with breath the more uncomfortable it makes me and therefore the more difficult it is for me to relax. It probably has to dowith straining my chest muscles in order to fit in more air, they therefore contract and use up oxygen. (This is pure speculation as I'm about the farthest thing from a medical expert you can find, so don't quote me on it.) I'm sure one of the medical guys on the forum can correct me later, but from personal experience I find that trying to get as much oxygen as possible limits my static. I've watched videos of stephan misfund (10min4second static world record holder) packing and he seems super relaxed while he's doing it. So like Sanso said, it may be that relaxation is the limiting factor and not oxygen. Thanks for bringing this topic up yoda turtle, I'll try different statics with different amounts of breath-up and see what results.

 

[yoda turtle]

keep me posted alexrom1207 it would be interesting to see what works for you.
I started a regime of stretching to day to improve and increase the elasticity of the ribcage (from the umberto pelizzari manual of freediving). will let you know how it goes.
Have fun and be cool.

 

[narcosis00]

Not to long ago i was working on my breast-stroke and an older guy who i know was telling me that if on your third hyperventilation breath you take like a 3/4 inhale its easier to swim longer.... so i tried it and he was right when you get toward the end of your swim you dont have that burning almost pulsating feeling in your chest could be all in your head but after doing it his way i swam 10 yrds longer... I say try it and stay with what you like.

 

[yoda turtle]

Hi narcisis00, I'll try that at the pool tomorrow when I do my swim. Hit a new pb today, went to 4:15 today sticking with only a part breath and not a full one. Interesting thing is I only had breath reflex kick in the last 10 seconds. not sure what to make of all this but its a good learning experience.

 

[Atlantis Fire]

From personal experience, I find I do best at about 9/10 of a full inhale, after stretching and breathing exercises of course. I take a full breath, then exhale a small bit. My lung capacity is a bit higher than average, so holding my breath with totally full lungs takes a fair amount of energy. I've never taken a class though, so don't trust anything I say.

 

[sanso]

Hey guys,
what You write sounds like You're using Hyperventilation as a normal breathe-up routine. I can only recommend that You take a course to learn what that does, as there are (severe) risks and disadvantages involved.

My 0.02€

Stay safe

 

[yoda turtle]

hey Sanso,
yeah , i guess thats possible as we don't have much experience... one of the things I particularly wanted to avoid was just that ..... hyperventilating. I'll do some more research and find out how to determine it so then I can avoid it for definate

 

[Atlantis Fire]

Yeah, I never use hyperventilation. It can cause all sorts of problems even without you actually holding your breath afterwards.

 

[yoda turtle]

Atlantis ,Fire you sword fight ....thats cool fencing or iado or maybe the chinese swords. I trained for some years in pole fighting ( chinese, long and heavy)
ok back to this full breath/not so full breath stuff..... I am sure I read some where that jaques mayol advocated staying away from packing..... any one??

 

[tbgsub]

what about deep exhalatiton after the first three intakes after a hold to vacate CO2, and then two to three deep rapid intakes with still double the time to exhale before a natural full breath in.
I have been spearfishing and Freedive photography for 2 years every weekend, but not trying to push more than a 2min personal best dynamic and 3 min static no contractions whatsoever. I think I was blessed with big lungs and a slow resting heart rate.

any ideas?

thanks.

 

[DiverTodd]

I am sure I read some where that jaques mayol advocated staying away from packing..... any one??

The main purpose of packing is to give you more air to equalize with at depth, so it's best left for use during deep dives. Myself, I only pack when I'm doing target dives. Although, for static, it can be useful as a stretching tool; just BE CAREFUL, and don't overdo it! Beginners can injure themselves very easily when attempting to pack more than they're capable. Honestly, I would suggest staying AWAY from packing, until you've had proper instruction.

Todd

 

[yoda turtle]

Hi tbgsub, you are living the life I always wanted.... wow!! am going to give your idea a go when i next do some static... sounds interesting, think I may have the same advantages ... good lungs slow heart...

 

[yoda turtle]

Thanks for that Divertodd, must admit the whole packing thing is a little further along the road than were I am now so Yeah I will wait untill my course in june.

 

[alexrom1207]

Be cautious about deep rapid breaths. I'm definitely no expert, but that sounds a little like hyperventilation to me. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable guys could chime in.

 

[tbgsub]

I only do two to three deep sort of rapid (20 seconds apart still keeping the exhale twice as long as the inhale to keep heart slow) breaths before a dive but don't extend the total dive time past 2 mins regardless of depth.

My depths are nothing impressive only between 30-60ft, but I have been to 75 and felt that another 5 feet would be easy enough.

I pack slightly maybe 3 times only during static land training, but avoid packing when diving. (i DONT LIKE THE TIGHTNESS IN MY CHEST THAT MAKES ME ANXIOUS and that might disturb my heart rhythm to much, because I am not used to packing; nor do I want to be+ I am in line with Jaque Mayol's thinking)

Last Saturday I dove and felt really alert just prior to diving, just breathing deeply and slowly but not hyperventilating, and not tingling, just alert, jfocusing more on evacuating my residual volume with deep exhales and normal inhales to near full volume. I think it had alot to do with the online Static apnea table exercises.

Some locals think if they hyperventilate they can stay down longer, but I know that is fooling with the return instinct too much for my tastes.

I do plan on experimenting with dynamic land training, sometimes when riding a Triathlon-Bike (because the posture from the bikes geometry facilitates an open chest and deeper than normal biking breathing) I pedal for 20 strokes in apnea then breath 5 deep slow breaths and pedal for 20 more till I can no longer prevent breathing heavily, then I go on with the ride for a mile or so and start over again. but I haven't done this in some time. I think I like the static apnea tables better.

jI do know that high Cardio workouts bring down the resting heart rate which is good for Free diving, but I also know 50 year old free divers who are literally fat and out of shape by normal standards, and who smoke and have a bottom time of 2 mins / 3 mins overall and down to 80+ feet spearfishing, But I bet if they were healthy they would impressive.

what do you guys recommend for dynamic land training?

I am preferring to save the training on the land, and let the improvements show in the water under relaxed conditions (keep in mind I am a recreational freediver/spearfisher)

I have been using the static apnea tables online from a UK website, and I think it is GREAT!! I am feeling more comfortable after doing only two sets the day before spearfishing! Thanks for the comments.

best of luck to you all and stay safe.

Scott in Saipan, AKA (TBGSUB)