Mares Cyrano 1.1 700 - Questions - Mods & maintenance

[Pjk]

Great to know I can operate at 30 bar for extra distance if I can load it, there were no 1.3 available in Australia at the time & I was hoping less water in the barrel w/ a lighter shaft would add to distance and accuracy, is the 1.3 a harder hitter and a further shot in both a wet and dry barrel setup?

I came to the rescue just in time,

there was a mere 5ml or so of grey oil remaining within the gun & then I encountered another horror show after removing the piston

There was a decent scratch along the inner barrel & similar size indent on the white delrin piston rim, should I panic?


I saw the damage and swapped the white piston with a replacement black piston and was curious how concerned I should be over one scratch of this size on my seal health and performance

The white piston mares supplied with the gun was very different to the black piston with the white stock Mares cheap piston having a mushroom tail vs the black pistons trapezius end, does the higher quality of this black piston add to the performance in any way?



There are also no little raised bumps on the black pistons interior & the shaft hole is smaller by a fraction without any room to move around, interesting.

I wish they were still made from metal with a front wiper seal, might have saved me from this scratch disaster.

Thanks for the info on greasing the thread before screwing on the muzzle after the service.

 

[Pjk]

This third kind available on the market is a STC Italia X-Power System high performance

This appears to be a mixture of both pistons mentioned above but with a mushroom tail and it has a space ring similar to the white factory mares 11mm

Curious which piston tail the sear prefers or which piston body shape has an advantage relative to performance over the others and if the black replacement piston I had installed earlier is inferior to this shiny performance model I found on eBay

 

[popgun pete]

Was this gun secondhand when you bought it? Scratches in the inner barrel sounds like it. Scratches can create leaks if they are continuous. If the gun is not leaking then you need not worry about it, but it is not a good sign. As for high performance pistons this is usually marketing spin, however a piston without a big groove that weakens its cross section is preferable to one that has it. I am not really a fan of using non-original parts, but if the stock parts are unobtainable then there is no other choice. There is a tendency to overthink pneumatic guns, the main thing is they work reliably.

The vacuum barrel guns first appeared on lower tank capacity as in smaller diameter tank tube guns to make them more swingable in the water, that was what the Mamba guns were about, yet made them still reasonable shooters. However Mamba eventually produced Magnum models with full size tanks and 13 mm inner barrels. The company used other manufacturer's handles, a number were based on the Omer Tempest handle. The bigger bore guns are more powerful, but you need to be able to load them. That is true of any speargun loaded with muscle power. If the gun does what you want then no need to change it as the difference between brands is minimal in terms of how they shoot. Probably one of the biggest changes in pneumatic guns was the larger muzzle ports, they are much bigger than they used to be, everything else has stayed much the same.

I have never handled one, but the LG-Sub Supreme vacuum barrel spearguns should be powerful as they have full size tanks and 14 mm inner barrels. The early pneumatic guns all had half inch or 13 mm inner barrels, but companies such as GSD produced 14 mm inner barrel guns in the seventies. These guns were well made, but in overseas markets were not supported with spare parts or spears and eventually could not compete with Mares, Cressi-Sub and Seac-Sub, so they eventually disappeared.

 

[Pjk]

It was sold to me as brand new but came with what looked to be signs of moderate use with wear over the serial numbers right where line sits over the release, fresh grease or silicone around the handle to barrel thread connection and things of that nature so I thought the warehouse had given me a highly unusual free service until I saw the barrel, piston and amount of oil missing (near all of it)

Won’t name the online store as I can’t be sure but I don’t believe I did this damage to the piston to scratch the barrel because have only been in the pool for testing and calm sea water

I tested loading without latching to see if there was any air loss between the seal and the barrel and there was nothing visibly or audibly wrong so it’s just a white ish mark for now.

The mark likely runs the full length of the barrel because the piston was deformed with a 1mm protruding spike of delrin pushed up around the rim by some debris has left a hefty scratch & we cant truly be sure without taking the entire thing apart how bad it is.

I can not find replacement inner barrels online for the evo series blue handle & may have to email Mares if I notice any loss of pressure but I doubt they will find me a barrel so I guess I had better start saving for my Pelengas 70.

 

[Pjk]

That Sub supreme looks ideal for depths, I would love something like that in future for open water however the need for an extended loader keeps me away from anything above 70cm for the time being

The more recent and expensive pneumatics seem to favour the dry muzzle for performance being easier to load, quieter faster and more accurate with greater internal longevity so I may as well order one for my Cyrano from speargun.shop & run it into the ground with testing now that I’ve got a huge gash in my pipe and don’t feel as worried about messing with the gun/learning all about what’s inside.

The gun does what I want but I need 1m more shot distance with this 70cm Mares without its loading effort becoming extreme or needing two hands,

I am about to go to 30 bar and test her in the pool & see if we have minor leaks with some detergent in a tub and I’m so hopeful that white mark is mostly cosmic in nature as I’m not educated enough to differentiate between Delrin rub off residue marks vs stripped anodized coating to determine how much trouble my seals may soon encounter.

After another few sessions I’ll pull her apart once more (pumping is rough ) and review the piston seals and see if there’s any funny stuff happening around that scratch area.

 

[popgun pete]

I would think that the gun was not new and may have been a shop model that the staff used. New guns don't have a scratch on them and they never have any visible grease on them. So they sold you a secondhand gun. Buying a gun that has plenty of support in terms of spares is really the way to go. Pelengas make nice guns, but they are made for their conditions and their inner barrel diameter is 12 mm, bigger than 11 mm, but a 13 mm gun is more versatile. Pelengas spears have the same rear ends as Mares and Salvimar, but they have their own spare parts and for those you need to get them from Ukraine. Who knows where that is going?

Mares also make the Cyrano in 13 mm, but they need to be imported as only the 11 mm seems to be stocked in Oz. They still make the Sten, but last time I looked they only offered up to 70 cm. That may change as the Sten went up to 130 cm not that long ago.

If your gun works OK and doesn't have any leaks I suggest you just use it, although I would never buy a gun from someone who sold me a used one and then not sent it back. Too late for that now though.

I found the main difference in pneumatic guns was the handle, some suited me better than others and that very much depends on the size of your hands, so what may suit me does not necessarily work for everybody. Often looking at the grass in the next paddock is not very productive as there is not a big difference in guns, they all being a barrel tube with a piston pushing a spear.

 

[popgun pete]

I don't think you need a new inner barrel but here are some being sold on eBay.

Mares Inner Barrel for Cyrano Spare Part Replacement | eBay

Mares Inner Barrel for Cyrano. barrels are new removed from new never used mares cyrano pneumatic spearguns, so there can be a little bit oil on them. We also have a high-standard team, qualified by authorized organizations to ensure products are of the highest quality.

www.ebay.com

 

[Pjk]

I sent a message to the barrel salesman and they only sell the old cyrano 70 barrels & does not have the EVO barrels 11mm, are these not the same?

Testing post maintenance

The gun appears to operate fine with the new piston, no sign of leaks and it maintains pressure but seems to have lost a small degree of power after adding 30ml of oil compared to the 5ml of grey oil it came with @ the same 20 bar it’s always held, feeling like it’s a fraction easier to load too maybe it’s the liquid in the compression I wouldn’t know.

It is indeed a shame the entire village used and abused my first speargun before it was sent to me,

I went ahead and placed an order on a new Mares Cyrano 1.1 70 at a discount price & made a point that it be in new condition, this will be the new primary & I’ll save the old one for spare parts.

I agree the barrel doesn’t need replacing but I can’t sleep as well knowing the scratch is there so this grants me an excuse to get inside & fit new O rings while seeing how it all fits together so I know what’s happening when things go wrong next time which I hope they don’t but hey I’m a lucky guy

 

[popgun pete]

The Cyrano barrel in the version that started with the Evo which has orange trim and then had its bugs fixed to become the blue trim version has breather holes in new positions to take into account the inner barrel sitting higher in the rear handle. If you search on Mares Cyrano Evo in the pneumatic guns section here you will see they are on the sides of the barrel, not on top as they used to be in the first Cyrano. In fact the Sten guns use that same top hole arrangement, the inner barrel being coaxial with the tank.

The oil should make no difference to the power of the shot, but the piston seals on the aftermarket piston may be a slightly tighter fit which will settle in after you use the gun some more.

 

[popgun pete]

The Mares Cyrano Evo was discussed here a number of times including its metal trigger successor which then just became the Cyrano. Worth reading them to see what was going on before the guns were changed. The trigger transmission pins were changed to work with the new metal parts according to the parts list, most likely being shorter.

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forums.deeperblue.com

Here is the relevant text from one of the above threads.
"Having finally gained access to the parts list for the Cyrano 1.3 (thanks to a friendly dealer) I think we finally have the answer to the problems in the Cyrano Evo and their solution in the blue handled later Cyrano guns. It may also explain why advice was given that the new metal trigger and line release lever could not simply be swapped for the plastic items in the orange trim Evo guns. The reason would appear to be that the trigger transmission pins are different! In the Evo this item (the connection piston) part number 23 has Mares part reference number 43201192, in the blue trim Cyrano this is still part number 23, but the part reference number is now 43201429. Although the dimensions are not shown I suspect the trigger transmission pin is shorter in the later guns. So if you do replace your plastic Evo trigger and line release lever make sure you change the trigger transmission pin as well".

 

[Pjk]

Thanks for the diagrams and explanation regarding the EVO, do we have a part reference number for this blue handle EVO internal barrel with the relocated breather holes?

The piston seals did relax & the shots returned to normal after some use however I’ve lost a little distance and can’t determine the cause so I may order the original piston and see whether that makes any difference at all because the Bar is the same the only difference is the after market piston & 30ml of oil

 

[popgun pete]

Thanks for the diagrams and explanation regarding the EVO, do we have a part reference number for this blue handle EVO internal barrel with the relocated breather holes?

The piston seals did relax & the shots returned to normal after some use however I’ve lost a little distance and can’t determine the cause so I may order the original piston and see whether that makes any difference at all because the Bar is the same the only difference is the after market piston & 30ml of oil

Bar the shape of the rear mushroom head and how many seals there are on the piston there's really no functional difference between them. A lot of claims are just marketing spin. Some pistons have been machined to create bodies from plastic rod and the metal mushroom tail screws in the back end while others have the nylon or acetal body moulded around the metal tail.

We don't have a parts list for the 1.1 blue handle Evo, but for sure it uses the same inner barrel as the original Orange Evo. Mares dropped the Evo from the name as maybe bad feelings were felt about the earlier gun with bits snapping off.

Annotated Parts diagrams and parts lists are shown here. Post # 16 and #17.

Mares Cyrano Parts Diagram (Annotated)

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forums.deeperblue.com

Mares hand them out to dealers and they were obtained from them after Mares refused to acknowledge that they existed.

 

[Pjk]

Cheers for the EVO parts list and all of those diagrams you have compiled in these posts,

Forgive the EVO vs 1.1 confusion as the original user manual didn’t display the upgrade model between the plastic mech EVO and the HFT with the oversized ergonomic handle and that awful external barrel while parts from Lithuania were referred to as an EVO second generation and so on.

These guns share basically the same internal layout with the HFT keeping the same steel trigger and line mech so I planned to use both diagrams to rebuild my Cyrano.

I was instructed to order the internal barrel through a distributer from Mares & was informed that all parts are stocked in Australia.

I need a new piston and seals too so I requested the complete parts reference list to order the correct components, I also requested a complete diagram won’t hold my breath.

I believe I have everything I need however I still want to see if they are willing to share the information as it would be a shame to have to take leave from work & show up @ Mares Australia warehouse in a Batman costume to get the parts necessary to rebuild this Cyrano back to new condition.

 

[popgun pete]

Well good luck with getting diagrams for the Cyrano Evo and later metal trigger Cyrano as I asked Mares directly and was told that a parts list did not exist. That was surely a lie as we have now seen some of them. I fancy Mares only made the blue handle version to fix the bugs. I will soon find out as I just bought a NOS orange Evo to check out my suspicions as I have never seen one first hand. I do have a Cyrano 1.3 that I bought from Estonia.

What Mares should do is release the parts lists and exploded parts diagrams for the Cyrano Evo in 11 mm, the only size it came in, and 11 mm and 13 mm versions for the two blue handle Cyrano "Evo" guns. The diagram we have for the Cyrano 1.3 is from some photos which are better than nothing, but not ideal. The orange trim Cyrano Evo diagram came from a diveshop website where someone let the cat out of the bag. If I ever get my hands on them I will scan them and put them up to add to what we already have.

The only difference in the 11 mm and 13 mm Blue Cyrano guns will be the inner barrels and parts that directly fit on or in the inner barrels like the rear grip, partitioning bulkhead and the muzzle bulkhead that have to be sized accordingly. Everything else should be the same.

 

[popgun pete]

This diagram indicates what I have always thought was the problem with the Cyrano Evo, a flat hook type sear lever should never be used at an angle as it is too close to releasing and firing the gun. The right hand diagram is how Mares shows it. The left displays how it should sit with the gun cocked to shoot. The piston has been omitted for clarity of the diagram.

 

[Pjk]

Mares Cyrano 1.1 Diagram & Parts List:

 

[popgun pete]

What a surprise, they gave it to you. Well I will now add it to the others. It would be good to get a better example of the Cyrano 1.3 as the existing one is just a photo of the diagram laying on a table.

 

[popgun pete]

I always knew Mares had these diagrams, but for some reason they were not handling them over when asked. The distributors all get repair manuals and for sure they need parts lists.

 

[Pjk]

There will be a similar diagram/parts list for the 1.3 & hopefully Mares will share that information as they did with the 1.1

At 29 bar of pressure the 1.1 did not reach the desired 4.2m distance before seeing shaft drop-off but it was close enough, perhaps I wanted too much from a 70cm gun, perhaps I need mono instead of dyneema, a different line slide or alternative spear head.

I have found what appears to be the vacuum muzzle that fits my Cyrano 1.1

Pneumatic vacuum muzzle Salvimar for Mares Cyrano Evo 11 mm

The Salvimar Vuoto pneumatic vacuum muzzle is designed to increase the power of the Mares Cyrano Evo air rifles. The necessary effect is achieved due to the fact that when charging the harpoon, water does not enter the barrel, and when fired, the pisto

speargun.shop

There is another similar muzzle kit with “not for EVO” in the description so I’m hoping the above version fits my barrel model.

If the Salvimar muzzle @20-24? Bar doesn’t reach 12ft+ shot w/ tension I’ll revert back to wet barrel @30bar as less parts is always better.

 

[popgun pete]

There will be a similar diagram/parts list for the 1.3 & hopefully Mares will share that information as they did with the 1.1

At 29 bar of pressure the 1.1 did not reach the desired 4.2m distance before seeing shaft drop-off but it was close enough, perhaps I wanted too much from a 70cm gun, perhaps I need mono instead of dyneema, a different line slide or alternative spear head.

I have found what appears to be the vacuum muzzle that fits my Cyrano 1.1

Pneumatic vacuum muzzle Salvimar for Mares Cyrano Evo 11 mm

The Salvimar Vuoto pneumatic vacuum muzzle is designed to increase the power of the Mares Cyrano Evo air rifles. The necessary effect is achieved due to the fact that when charging the harpoon, water does not enter the barrel, and when fired, the pisto

speargun.shop

There is another similar muzzle kit with “not for EVO” in the description so I’m hoping the above version fits my barrel model.

If the Salvimar muzzle @20-24? Bar doesn’t reach 12ft+ shot w/ tension I’ll revert back to wet barrel @30bar as less parts is always better.

We only have a photo of the Cyrano 1.3 which is what is displayed on the page I referred to earlier, although it is readable even if slightly distorted. To shoot further you need a longer gun. Most fish get shot around 12 feet from the tip of the gun, so the gun is capable of that as 12 feet is 3.7 metres. Longer guns shoot further. A pneumatic generally in the longer sizes can shoot two line wraps, they will only do three if highly pressurized, like 40 bar as a wet barrel.

Salvimar produce muzzles for Mares and Cressi 13 mm guns and the 11 mm Evo, a search on this site will find them all being discussed.