Mares Cyrano 1.1 700 - Questions - Mods & maintenance

[vrokhlenko]

There will be a similar diagram/parts list for the 1.3 & hopefully Mares will share that information as they did with the 1.1

At 29 bar of pressure the 1.1 did not reach the desired 4.2m distance before seeing shaft drop-off but it was close enough, perhaps I wanted too much from a 70cm gun, perhaps I need mono instead of dyneema, a different line slide or alternative spear head.

I have found what appears to be the vacuum muzzle that fits my Cyrano 1.1

Pneumatic vacuum muzzle Salvimar for Mares Cyrano Evo 11 mm

The Salvimar Vuoto pneumatic vacuum muzzle is designed to increase the power of the Mares Cyrano Evo air rifles. The necessary effect is achieved due to the fact that when charging the harpoon, water does not enter the barrel, and when fired, the pisto

speargun.shop

There is another similar muzzle kit with “not for EVO” in the description so I’m hoping the above version fits my barrel model.

If the Salvimar muzzle @20-24? Bar doesn’t reach 12ft+ shot w/ tension I’ll revert back to wet barrel @30bar as less parts is always better.

Hello! A couple of questions:
1) I have a Cyrano 1.1 90 with metal trigger and line release. It does not say "Evo" anywhere. Which dry barrel attachment in your opinion I should get? The one you linked in your post from the speargun.shop : https://speargun.shop/Pneumatic vacuum muzzle Salvimar for Mares Cyrano Evo 11 mm
My piston is a new style with a rounded end (no protrusion like in the old Cyrano 11mm)
2) What I kind of a power gain I get from this attachment?

Thanks in advance,

Vadim

 

[popgun pete]

Hello! A couple of questions:
1) I have a Cyrano 1.1 90 with metal trigger and line release. It does not say "Evo" anywhere. Which dry barrel attachment in your opinion I should get? The one you linked in your post from the speargun.shop : https://speargun.shop/Pneumatic vacuum muzzle Salvimar for Mares Cyrano Evo 11 mm
My piston is a new style with a rounded end (no protrusion like in the old Cyrano 11mm)
2) What I kind of a power gain I get from this attachment?

Thanks in advance,

Vadim

Mares just dropped the name Evo, but the latest blue handle gun is the same gun as the orange trim version, but with a different trigger and line release, plus they made slight changes to the handle moulding.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Mares just dropped the name Evo, but the latest blue handle gun is the same gun as the orange trim version, but with a different trigger and line release, plus they made slight changes to the handle moulding.

Well, it does not answer my question or it does - that dry barrel must say "Evo" on it to fit on my gun? Also what kind of a power gain will I get?

 

[popgun pete]

Well, it does not answer my question or it does - that dry barrel must say "Evo" on it to fit on my gun? Also what kind of a power gain will I get?

It does answer your question, the necked down rear end muzzle for the Cyrano Evo also fits the Cyrano that replaced it. The "Evo" is used in the parts description as there is an earlier Cyrano that uses the type of muzzle used on Mares guns sized for 11 mm barrels such as the Cyrano and Spark and the Sporasub brand Stealth.

Mares could have called the later blue handle version the Cyrano Evo Mk II, but instead discarded the Evo part of the name. The company may call it Evo Mk II in their own internal listings.

 

[vrokhlenko]

It does answer your question, the necked down rear end muzzle for the Cyrano Evo also fits the Cyrano that replaced it. The "Evo" is used in the parts description as there is an earlier Cyrano that uses the type of muzzle used on Mares guns sized for 11 mm barrels such as the Cyrano and Spark and the Sporasub brand Stealth.

Mares could have called the later blue handle version the Cyrano Evo Mk II, but instead discarded the Evo part of the name. The company may call it Evo Mk II in their own internal listings.
View attachment 60087

much obliged!

 

[popgun pete]

However as far as I know Salvimar does not make a vacuum barrel muzzle for the latest Cyrano 1.3. The muzzle they offer right now is for the 11 mm inner barrel guns with the high mount inner barrel, which they simply mark as Evo.

 

[vrokhlenko]

However as far as I know Salvimar does not make a vacuum barrel muzzle for the latest Cyrano 1.3. The muzzle they offer right now is for the 11 mm inner barrel guns with the high mount inner barrel, which they simply mark as Evo.

Here is I believe ukrainian-made dry kits: https://speargun.shop/accessories/repair-kits?page=2 for both 11 and 13 mm

 

[popgun pete]

Here is I believe ukrainian-made dry kits: https://speargun.shop/accessories/repair-kits?page=2 for both 11 and 13 mm

They will not fit the Evo and its successor, they are for the 11 mm and 13 mm guns which were made for decades. The original Cyrano dates from 1994 and the Sten goes back to 1967. The main change to the Sten was like the first Cyrano the rear of the muzzle butts up on the nose cone in the 2001 model Sten and onwards. With the new high inner barrel guns Mares mounted the back of the muzzle in a socket of smaller size than the muzzle body OD.

In the first Sten and the Sten 97 the muzzle sat in a nose cone socket the same size as the muzzle OD.

 

[Pjk]

The consensus regarding the use of a vacuum seal muzzle is that it will provide some slight increase in speed and distance but since I have not used one I can not yet comment on whether this increase is worth the occasional replacement of seals, emptying water from the barrel prior to loading & other things…

Most information online is over a decade old with outdated systems using lots of anti hydrodynamic junk on the shaft.

These work fine I’m sure but they aren’t salvimar kits on Cyrano guns so we can’t truly know until we test what it will do.

Maybe Pete has some idea what it might do for the performance in general, the more recent threads suggest people do prefer to use the salvimar muzzle but I don’t see any valuable comments regarding accurate speed/distance data however they seem to continue using the sealed kit so I am inclined to find out why.

There are necessary questions perhaps someone might answer:

Does this new Salvimar muzzle allow for loading while in the water?

Does the spear tail piece being slightly larger cause the majority of the seal deterioration as it travels past the seal as the shaft leaves the muzzle during each shot?

How do people solve the issue of extra friction from the increased diameter of the shaft tail upon exiting the dry muzzle seal? Do they grind it down I wonder

Some other things,

Mares Cyrano 1.1 can utilise 30bar of pressure vs 20-25 for other brands with a wet barrel open muzzle so what is the optimal dry barrel psi without any changes to the spear tail for this particular 30bar tank?

And since I can still easily load my 70 @30 bar wet, what safe & optimal pressure limit can the Mares Cyrano function at as a wet barrel before it begins destroying the delrin piston & shock absorber with each shot?
Is that limit truly 30Bar or can I squeeze a few more Bar in without consequence?

If the tank can take 100 bar before catastrophic failure someone like me might want to test the piston durability at 33-35 bar at the expense of replacing a shock absorber & piston as long as it is safe, what could go wrong?

In testing under the same conditions the increase from 20 bar to 30 bar appeared to effect the force much more than the distance therefor it would mostly benefit penetration to have any increase in pressure above 20 Bar.

@vrokhlenko please comment on the performance differentials when you equip the new muzzle, I don’t think it’s linear with my 70 but your 90cm 1.1 SHOULD shoot approximately 4.5m (2.5 wraps) of 3 full wraps (5.4m) before experiencing spear drop off @ 20-30bar & so

If the vacuum muzzle provided even 15% increase for a 70cm gun that is an extra 50cm meaning the current 3.5m (before drop off) becomes a 4m shot with the new muzzle before the spear loses trajectory.

This is nearly 3 full line wraps of power, if it’s a 20% increase from the Salvimar kit I will reach my 3 wrap lines end with adequate power which is 13+ feet.

Likewise your 90 with a 15% increase would be an extra 67cm or something meaning 5+ metre shot if the increase is real.

Even a 10% increase would nearly be worth the trouble, benefits also be easier loading & supposed recoil reduction and maybe a lesser sound/shockwave in the water.

Let’s find out, if it’s more than 15% increase this could be a very interesting addition to the Cyrano.

 

[vrokhlenko]

The consensus regarding the use of a vacuum seal muzzle is that it will provide some slight increase in speed and distance but since I have not used one I can not yet comment on whether this increase is worth the occasional replacement of seals, emptying water from the barrel prior to loading & other things…

Most information online is over a decade old with outdated systems using lots of anti hydrodynamic junk on the shaft.

These work fine I’m sure but they aren’t salvimar kits on Cyrano guns so we can’t truly know until we test what it will do.

Maybe Pete has some idea what it might do for the performance in general, the more recent threads suggest people do prefer to use the salvimar muzzle but I don’t see any valuable comments regarding accurate speed/distance data however they seem to continue using the sealed kit so I am inclined to find out why.

There are necessary questions perhaps someone might answer:

Does this new Salvimar muzzle allow for loading while in the water?

Does the spear tail piece being slightly larger cause the majority of the seal deterioration as it travels past the seal as the shaft leaves the muzzle during each shot?

How do people solve the issue of extra friction from the increased diameter of the shaft tail upon exiting the dry muzzle seal? Do they grind it down I wonder

Some other things,

Mares Cyrano 1.1 can utilise 30bar of pressure vs 20-25 for other brands with a wet barrel open muzzle so what is the optimal dry barrel psi without any changes to the spear tail for this particular 30bar tank?

And since I can still easily load my 70 @30 bar wet, what safe & optimal pressure limit can the Mares Cyrano function at as a wet barrel before it begins destroying the delrin piston & shock absorber with each shot?
Is that limit truly 30Bar or can I squeeze a few more Bar in without consequence?

If the tank can take 100 bar before catastrophic failure someone like me might want to test the piston durability at 33-35 bar at the expense of replacing a shock absorber & piston as long as it is safe, what could go wrong?

In testing under the same conditions the increase from 20 bar to 30 bar appeared to effect the force much more than the distance therefor it would mostly benefit penetration to have any increase in pressure above 20 Bar.

@vrokhlenko please comment on the performance differentials when you equip the new muzzle, I don’t think it’s linear with my 70 but your 90cm 1.1 SHOULD shoot approximately 4.5m (2.5 wraps) of 3 full wraps (5.4m) before experiencing spear drop off @ 20-30bar & so

If the vacuum muzzle provided even 15% increase for a 70cm gun that is an extra 50cm meaning the current 3.5m (before drop off) becomes a 4m shot with the new muzzle before the spear loses trajectory.

This is nearly 3 full line wraps of power, if it’s a 20% increase from the Salvimar kit I will reach my 3 wrap lines end with adequate power which is 13+ feet.

Likewise your 90 with a 15% increase would be an extra 67cm or something meaning 5+ metre shot if the increase is real.

Even a 10% increase would nearly be worth the trouble, benefits also be easier loading & supposed recoil reduction and maybe a lesser sound/shockwave in the water.

Let’s find out, if it’s more than 15% increase this could be a very interesting addition to the Cyrano.

I talked to the Pelengas representative. He told me a few things, in random order:
1) Pelengas stopped making kits for Cyrano, once they are gone - they are gone
2) They actually prefer loading in the water
3) Their "rashodnik" - the front replaceable piece is made from a better material than the Salvimar one and they are interchangeable. Also significantly cheaper. They are made with injection molding. Usually they must be replaced every 100 shots or so.
4) They do not recommend pressure above 25 PSI.
5) They believe their system is better than the Salvimar's

Now about mine Cyrano 1.1 90. I pump it with my own home-made pump so I am not sure what pressure it is usually at. Probably around 20. But even at that pressure the 7mm 17-4ph the shaft bends significantly when loading. Also the loading is not reliable - sometimes it takes a couple of pushes to get a proper catch between the piston and the hook. It also takes a different reel from the original Cyrano. My main guns are 850 Cyrano and 90 1.1 - they take different "dry barrel" kits. So I have a decision to make

 

[popgun pete]

Russia is where a lot of speargun variations were built to experiment with various designs. The USSR State owned factories built rather primitive if adequate weapons, however there had been a tradition of gunsmith built spearguns that were built from scratch which tried vacuum barrels and many other exotic arrangements. In experiments they found the vacuum barrel improved the performance by about 15 percent. Just exactly what the guns were built like we don't know, for example were they identical and just differed in the muzzle?

Most early European pneumatic spearguns were all metal and non-floaters and muzzle relief ports were small in diameter and this continued with the rear handle Mares Sten and similar guns which did float after the shot. After the plastic pistons were introduced to cut costs and remove the galvanic corrosion potential with the alloy inner barrel the manufacturers began making the muzzle relief ports bigger which reduced hydrobraking in the inner barrel. Today the ports are so big they will be as large as or larger than the cross sectional area of the inner barrel minus the cross section of the spear. That means the annular column of water being blasted out by the gun during the shot is no longer restricted by the ports. However the water still has to be accelerated through ninety degrees to leave the gun and that takes energy from the shot. Turbulence may also occur at the shock absorber anvil. Thus while hydrobraking has been greatly reduced it is not gone entirely. With a vacuum barrel gun you don't have that loss, but you do have some seal drag on the shaft from the vacuum seal which is very small with lip type seals. The further down you go more of the seal pushes onto the shaft, so the drag will go up slightly. Pneumovacuum guns in Russia and Ukraine are not being used down deep being basically freshwater guns. Only in recent years have their guns become suitable for saltwater despite what the instruction manuals say even for their early guns. The international market potential has spurred big improvements in corrosion resistant gun materials being used for their guns because the market will pay for it. Previously costs and the desire to offer lower cost weapons to domestic users capped their efforts, but the wealthy have had access to titanium guns for decades.

The downside of vacuum barrel guns is if the muzzle seal fails and then lets water to be sucked into the inner barrel the performance goes backwards.
.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Russia is where a lot of speargun variations were built to experiment with various designs. The USSR State owned factories built rather primitive if adequate weapons, however there had been a tradition of gunsmith built spearguns that were built from scratch which tried vacuum barrels and many other exotic arrangements. In experiments they found the vacuum barrel improved the performance by about 15 percent. Just exactly what the guns were built like we don't know, for example were they identical and just differed in the muzzle?

Most early European pneumatic spearguns were all metal and non-floaters and muzzle relief ports were small in diameter and this continued with the rear handle Mares Sten and similar guns which did float after the shot. After the plastic pistons were introduced to cut costs and remove the galvanic corrosion potential with the alloy inner barrel the manufacturers began making the muzzle relief ports bigger which reduced hydrobraking in the inner barrel. Today the ports are so big they will be as large as or larger than the cross sectional area of the inner barrel minus the cross section of the spear. That means the annular column of water being blasted out by the gun during the shot is no longer restricted by the ports. However the water still has to be accelerated through ninety degrees to leave the gun and that takes energy from the shot. Turbulence may also occur at the shock absorber anvil. Thus while hydrobraking has been greatly reduced it is not gone entirely. With a vacuum barrel gun you don't have that loss, but you do have some seal drag on the shaft from the vacuum seal which is very small with lip type seals. The further down you go more of the seal pushes onto the shaft, so the drag will go up slightly. Pneumovacuum guns in Russia and Ukraine are not being used down deep being basically freshwater guns. Only in recent years have their guns become suitable for saltwater despite what the instruction manuals say even for their early guns. The international market potential has spurred big improvements in corrosion resistant gun materials being used for their guns because the market will pay for it. Previously costs and the desire to offer lower cost weapons to domestic users capped their efforts, but the wealthy have had access to titanium guns for decades.

The downside of vacuum barrel guns is if the muzzle seal fails and then lets water to be sucked into the inner barrel the performance goes backwards.
.

Pelengas is a Ukrainian company. The most famous USSR pneumatic gun ( a 27 rouble green piece of crap ) was also from Ukraine. in the USSR the factory-made guns were pure garbage. My father designed a few guns - his best creation is still with me as he passed away a few years back. It is a hydro-pneumatic gun that I will never part ways with. The best guns were all custom made - you are quite correct in that

 

[popgun pete]

Ukraine was part of the USSR when those guns were made and Arsenal in Kiev or Kyiv was the factory where they were manufactured. Most of them are anodized green. I have a number of RSP-3 guns, but use them in saltwater and they are soon toast as most internal parts are not stainless steel and will quickly rust. They will survive in freshwater provided they are dried off after use. Spearing in rivers, lakes and reservoirs is what they were made for. The Black Sea is not so salty, but would test the guns if they were not flushed out. Modern guns like the Taimen and Pelengas are OK in saltwater, but still need rinsing, as do all spearguns.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Ukraine was part of the USSR when those guns were made and Arsenal in Kiev or Kyiv was the factory where they were manufactured. Most of them are anodized green. I have a number of RSP-3 guns, but use them in saltwater and they are soon toast as most internal parts are not stainless steel and will quickly rust. They will survive in freshwater provided they are dried off after use. Spearing in rivers, lakes and reservoirs is what they were made for. The Black Sea is not so salty, but would test the guns if they were not flushed out. Modern guns like the Taimen and Pelengas are OK in saltwater, but still need rinsing, as do all spearguns.

i am impressed. That green gun from the factory would not even shoot - the trigger would "froze". Oxidation would be another issue with them. No self-respecting spearo would use factory-made guns back then. All were custom made from 4Chrome13 stainless or titanium.

 

[popgun pete]

The Soviet era RPS-3 hydropneumatic speargun has been described here chapter and verse.

Hydro/pneumatic gun

Adjustment diagram showing how the small bolts in the trigger slide can provide a small delay in the trigger pull discharging the RPS-3, in which time the line release blocking cam can be moved to free the sprung loaded line release finger. When the spear leaves the gun the shooting line can...

forums.deeperblue.com

 

[vrokhlenko]

The Soviet era RPS-3 hydropneumatic speargun has been described here chapter and verse.

Hydro/pneumatic gun

Adjustment diagram showing how the small bolts in the trigger slide can provide a small delay in the trigger pull discharging the RPS-3, in which time the line release blocking cam can be moved to free the sprung loaded line release finger. When the spear leaves the gun the shooting line can...

forums.deeperblue.com

I might send you photos of my father's gun. You seem to be into these kind of things.

 

[Pjk]

Discontinuing only these “better” snub nose older gun versions of the dry muzzle for 11mm & 13mm?

Pnevmo vacuum kit for Mares Cyrano

Pnevmo vacuum kit for Mares Cyrano

speargun.shop

Shame I can’t try that one on my 1.1

Did they mention if the Salvimar will be discontinued?

Pneumatic vacuum muzzle Salvimar for Mares Cyrano Evo 11 mm

The Salvimar Vuoto pneumatic vacuum muzzle is designed to increase the power of the Mares Cyrano Evo air rifles. The necessary effect is achieved due to the fact that when charging the harpoon, water does not enter the barrel, and when fired, the pisto

speargun.shop

Which of these “ consumables “ are the better longer lasting seals? Do you have a link to a cheaper & better alternative or are these the ones you mentioned in your post:

PNEVMOVACUUM CUF 5 PSC FOR PELENGAS

PNEVMOVACUUM CUF 5 PSC FOR PELENGAS

speargun.shop

PNEVMOVACUUM CUF 5 PSC FOR PELENGAS new

PNEVMOVACUUM CUF 5 PSC FOR PELENGAS new

speargun.shop

They also have a single seal piston to increase efficiency, can’t be much difference in performance, I will order one for testing purposes

Piston For Mares

Piston For Mares

speargun.shop

Am I missing anything here?

They used to sell a titanium line slide but they no longer appear to sell this in 7mm & have instead the option for a 17-4 version, hopefully the weight isn’t a whole lot more on the stainless steel option

Titanium Sliding 7mm Sleeve For Harpoon With Hydroplanting For Mares, Cressi,

Titanium Sliding 7mm Sleeve For Harpoon With Hydroplanting For Mares, Cressi,

speargun.shop

Is this the best shaft to buy for my Mares 1.1 70cm? Unfortunately they don’t provide idiot-proof detail in the descriptions for these products they sell

PELENGAS Harpoon with hardened shank Mares, Omer, Beuchat, Tigullio

speargun.shop

Unsure if these are the correct items fitting my 1.1 70,

I need to figure out which seals to select & which shaft is best at 7mm x 700mm since there are several kinds (I think I need the Salvimar 65 / Cyrano 700)

 

[vrokhlenko]

Pelengas has nothing to do with Salvimar, they will continue to provide solutions for their own guns. What Salvimar will do - I have no idea. You will be better of buying that Salvimar kit from Tradeinn - cheaper and lower postage in all probability, not to mention faster because of the ruzzian filth's invasion.
As far as those consumables - you provided two links. I'd use the first item since I am not sure if the second "new" type will fit the Salvimar kit should you buy it later. I know that the first type will. The piston you linked does not have a wiper ring - maybe it would reduce some friction indeed. Do not waste any money on a titanium slider - the weight difference is absolutely negligible in this case. I made sliders out of titanium, 17-4ph, 304, 316. No difference. 17-4ph can be temperature-hardened while 304 and 316 can not. For a ring it makes zero difference. That shaft is Salvimar and by the color it is 17-4ph 900 degrees spring temper. Regular stuff

 

[Pjk]

Thank you for your assistance, I look forward to posting results @ 25 bar with the above setup in the very near future.

I hope this is the right version for my 1.1 as I am about to pull the trigger

Salvimar Mares Extension Vuoto Vacuum Muzzle Black | Diveinn

Get Salvimar Mares Extension Vuoto Vacuum - Black. Spare parts from Spearguns for dive for only 34.99 $. Fast and reliable delivery at Diveinn!

www.tradeinn.com

Salvimar 65 Cyrano 70 17-4 shaft is 22ish AUD from tradinn

Salvimar Screwed Inox 17-4PH 7.0 mm Pneumatic Spearshaft| Diveinn

Buy Salvimar Screwed Inox 17-4PH 7.0 mm Pneumatic Spearshaft , Spearshafts from Spearguns for only 20.49 $. Find dive deals in Diveinn | Fast delivery

www.tradeinn.com

 

[popgun pete]

Thank you for your assistance, I look forward to posting results @ 25 bar with the above setup in the very near future.

I hope this is the right version for my 1.1 as I am about to pull the trigger

Salvimar Mares Extension Vuoto Vacuum Muzzle Black | Diveinn

Get Salvimar Mares Extension Vuoto Vacuum - Black. Spare parts from Spearguns for dive for only 34.99 $. Fast and reliable delivery at Diveinn!

www.tradeinn.com

Shaft cost for Salvimar 65 Cyrano 70 is equal to $20 AUD bare from speargun.shop & they are hardened stainless, that’s a good price.

That 11 mm muzzle is for the earlier Cyrano and the Spark and Sten 11, it will not fit the Cyrano 1.1 due to the smaller nose cone that started with the Cyrano Evo. You need this one.