Mares Cyrano 1.1 700 - Questions - Mods & maintenance

[vrokhlenko]

The three ring shock absorbers Pelengas sent in place of the original Salvimar EVO 11mm damper (the one with the green/black rubber rings on a plastic body) don’t fit as it appears they’ve sent 13mm rings which is interesting because they assured me their Pelengas are better & interchangeable then sent me the wrong size.

I finally had time to attach the Salvimar Vacuum muzzle and it would appear the Pelengas cup seals do fit but they need to be squeezed in.

Also I had found most if not all Pelengas cup seals had tags of extra unwanted material on the inner seal diameters,

I pray these random tags won’t peel further than the rim edge into the cup if they catch and drag on shaft release,

I checked the Original Salvimar cup seal that came with the muzzle & it’s clean cut, perfect.

File or sand them down with sandpaper. Put it on a rod, chuck this rod in a drill and go easy

 

[rosenrot]

I got a little confused about which vacuum muzzle is the right one for my Cyrano 1.1.

Does this one work?

Salvimar Vacuum Muzzle Evolution, 11 mm. - Spearfishing Shop

spearfishing.de

Or this one?

Salvimar Vuoto Vacuum 11 Evolution muzzle Black | Diveinn

Get Salvimar Vuoto Vacuum 11 Evolution - Black from the Spare parts range, part of Spearguns, for just 55.99 $. Discover unbeatable dive deals at Diveinn with fast and reliable delivery!

www.tradeinn.com

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[Pjk]

That is the one.

1.1 = 11mm & that pneumatic is an upgraded EVO which is compatible with those 11mm Salvimar vacuum muzzles in those two links you provided.

The difference is cost and shipping time, if it’s just one item tradinn will send within 3-4 weeks to Australia, if it’s more than 2 items you can count on it taking a few months minimum if you don’t live in Western Europe.

You would also want to get a 17-4 hardened steel spear 67cm long

 

[rosenrot]

That is the one.

1.1 = 11mm & that pneumatic is an upgraded EVO which is compatible with those 11mm Salvimar vacuum muzzles in those two links you provided.

The difference is cost and shipping time, if it’s just one item tradinn will send within 3-4 weeks to Australia, if it’s more than 2 items you can count on it taking a few months minimum if you don’t live in Western Europe.

You would also want to get a 17-4 hardened steel spear 67cm long

Thank you very much for your fast reply.

I'm living in Austria, and tradeinn seems to be based in Spain - so delivery times should be < 2 weeks?

Do I need anything else? Like these?

Salvimar Vuoto Vacuum Muzzle 3 Units Head | Diveinn

Buy Salvimar Vuoto Vacuum Muzzle 3 Units Head , Spare parts from Spearguns for only 12.49 $. Find dive deals in Diveinn | Fast delivery

www.tradeinn.com

Can you send me a link for an apropriate 67cm 17-4 hardened steel spear?

I just ordered 5m of 1.4mm monofilament and sleeves, anything else required for a nice travel with my Cyrano 1.1?

 

[rosenrot]

That is the one.

1.1 = 11mm & that pneumatic is an upgraded EVO which is compatible with those 11mm Salvimar vacuum muzzles in those two links you provided.

The difference is cost and shipping time, if it’s just one item tradinn will send within 3-4 weeks to Australia, if it’s more than 2 items you can count on it taking a few months minimum if you don’t live in Western Europe.

You would also want to get a 17-4 hardened steel spear 67cm long

Also, this part is required but not part of the tradeinn offer?

 

[Pjk]

Devoto Pneumatic Spear Shaft 7mm Hardeneded - Cyrano

Devoto Pneumatic Spear Shaft 7mm is a threaded spear made from stainless steel. Comes in lengths to suit a variety of Pneumatic Spearguns. 38cm fits pneumatic size 40 or 42 and 52cm suits size 55. 67cm is a replacement spear shaft for your Mares Cyrano 700 87cm is a replacement spear shaft for...

www.spearfishingproducts.com.au

Yes those are the correct vacuum seals for the evolution muzzle.

You would also want a hardened 17-4 spear tip, go shopping for one with only one petal / flopper & keep it short so you can still load easily off the hip at high bar pressure.

You’ll want a stainless steel slider to remove the need to have the separate muzzle alignment shaft ring and plastic slide

My salvimar evo muzzle came with the 11mm shock absorber, white body with green & black rubber.

Buy two of everything.

 

[popgun pete]

Salvimar probably make the spears for everybody and their shaft tail is the same as the Mares tail in any case, so look for the range of spears made by Salvimar Pretty sure I have listed them all on another thread in the pneumatic speargun forum.

Salvimar make a wider range of spears than the ones that they supply with their guns, for example they have threaded spring stainless spears that can replace the integral tip shafts. You see them listed at the back end of their on-line catalog.

 

[rosenrot]

Thanks @popgun pete and @Pjk. I quickly checked for stainless steel sliders and a 67cm 17-4 spear shaft but there isn't a good distributor available. I will have another look.

Having such a shaft and slider aren't a must to use the Salvimar vacuum muzzle, right?

Of cource, I will try to get it but maybe it won't be for this sommer.

 

[rosenrot]

Meanwhile I found this one to be available. However, as the tip is not screwed, I'm not sure the slider could be replaced?

Salvimar 45 Degree Angle Inox 17-4PH 7.0 mm Screwed Pneumatic Spearshaft| Diveinn

Buy Salvimar 45 Degree Angle Inox 17-4PH 7.0 mm , Spearshafts from Spearguns for only 13.99 $. Find dive deals in Diveinn | Fast delivery

www.tradeinn.com

Is it correct that replacing the slider with a metall one is just helping performance but isn't vital?

 

[Pjk]

The Stainless steel slider is used to have less parts, steel is stronger/more reliable than plastic & maybe improve performance a slight amount if it’s more streamlined however it is not necessary, you can use the original shaft ring & plastic slide.

You want the hardened spear without any scratches, the fact 17-4 scratches less easily & is less pliable is the reason it’s preferred, smooth on the vacuum cuff.

You’ll be fine with a 45 degree tip it’s better for clear water, screw tip for shallows is apparently better to exchange tips but I don’t know which size fits your 70 since its a single piece shaft & I have only bought the screw end 67cm.

The greatest improvement you will see is from the vacuum muzzle, 1.3mm jacket dyneema.

Removing bulky parts from the shaft & minimising knots/crimps is the next most beneficial apart from adding more pressure up from 20 bar.

Goodluck.

 

[rosenrot]

Thanks for the hints. I will get everything together.

@Pjk how much line did you put on your Cyrano 1.1 finally? Would 5m be enough after mounting the vacuum muzzle?

 

[Pjk]

Thanks for the hints. I will get everything together.

@Pjk how much line did you put on your Cyrano 1.1 finally? Would 5m be enough after mounting the vacuum muzzle?

I would use 4.2m (3 wraps) of line but with the dry muzzle you could maybe run 5.6m of line however it feels like reel territory once you go past three wraps and you’ll probably get tangled especially with thin line so it’s not worth it.

The spear likely won’t have effective penetration past 4m anyway since the 11mm barrel with a 7mm shaft is more of a lightweight, close up shot design even with a vacuum seal muzzle it still loses momentum after 4m, 13 feet is just enough.

The 7mm shaft rod is very light and the compression ratio or whatever in the 11mm size pneumatic is less efficient than say a larger 12 or 1.3 (13mm inner barrel) and so I don’t know for sure how much line length is truly worthwhile but three wraps seems appropriate at max power & configuration.

Before the first test I had to dunk the shaft & seal in the water to lubricate surfaces to save the seals from friction damage & after doing so I didn’t pour out all of the water that had entered the barrel since I thought there wouldn’t be much, it was sunset nearly dark & when I shot the spear with water in the barrel it dribbled out/lost momentum after only two meters as water had congested the shot.

The vacuum cuff was fine, no blow out of any kind so I loaded it up again and without most of the usual recoil it fired with great power.

The shaft stripped the crimped mono line connected to the slider seemingly without resistance and continued with speed striking the end of the pool @7m on the same trajectory ending my testing that day.

Something worth noting is the Salvimar vacuum muzzle has little success if the barrel is filled with water and so technically it can’t be loaded underwater unless the tail is already in the piston and you load it without compromising the seal after submerging with the gun.

I would say 15-20%* more powerful is somewhat accurate after transitioning from wet barrel to the vacuum seal with minimal testing.

I need to test another day to be sure and then I will report my findings.

 

[Pjk]

After testing the sealed muzzle today around three shots into it I happened to cross the gaze of an overlooking, overly concerned neighbour questioning the air powered spear rifle in such ways as asking if it’s an extension of a fishing rod and then accusing me of being the person of late whom would enter the pool area & throw the large filter cap or other into the pool escaping into the night with whatever else came to mind as bored wealthy retired neighbours seem to enjoy in my experience over the past half decade.


I’d say the performance improved but only by a little and a little is a lot when you’re talking about short pneumatics, it’s currently @ 20 bar and already outperforms the 28 bar wet barrel due to less recoil compared to output being near the same distance to power ratio.

I fully endorse the vacuum barrel setup for its efficiency & now I’ll pump it to 28 with complete disregard for the seals since I have 20 of them & the aluminium barrels integrity because if I ruin it I’ll just buy another,

4.2m of line is all you will need with a 70, there’s no miracles here.

 

[popgun pete]

You can load the Salvimar vacuum barrel underwater by inserting the spear tail into the muzzle by hand, then once it is plugged in you move your hand with the loader up to the spear tip. Then with the gun's rear handle braced against your foot and your other hand grasping the gun behind the nose cone you push the shaft down into the gun. Doing this underwater the spear tail displaces some water that blows out through the vacuum cuff's nozzle by it expanding momentarily, after that the nozzle of the cuff then wraps the spear shaft forwards of the tail stop diameter and as you push the spear in a vacuum is created in the inner barrel with just a small amount of water going in as well that had been initially sitting around the spear tail. You need that small amount of water to avoid the piston seal wearing rapidly on what would be a dry barrel. If the vacuum cuff nozzle has not sealed properly then muzzle loading the gun will suck water into the inner barrel filling it up and that will slow the shot by about 15 percent.

What if some water left or entered the vacuum barrel

I have come to the conclusion that there is a downside to loading a speargun underwater. When the shaft is inserted into the speargun under water, the piston already rests on the shock absorber and all the excess water is pushed out by the shaft during insertion. The type of vacuum seal is...

forums.deeperblue.com

The water inside the front of the muzzle shown in blue then runs down into the inner barrel. When the gun is fired the water now in droplet and vapour form is pushed along the inner barrel by the piston to reform as shown above. Often a small amount of water gets through the vacuum nozzle to slightly increase the water volume and blows the nozzle open just before the stop shoulder on the spear tail strikes the inner lip of the nozzle.

 

[Pjk]

Indeed the front component of the Salvimar muzzle needs to be unscrewed after use to remove any residual water as shown in the above diagram.

After the seal is removed, tilting the gun downward removing any trapped water before rinsing the muzzle parts with fresh water then allowing everything to dry before reconnecting the parts for storage seems like enough.

I’ll need to unscrew everything in a years time to find out if any corrosion has occurred anywhere.

 

[popgun pete]

After a dive if you put the gun in a freshwater tub it will rinse out the muzzle as without a spear in the gun the water will penetrate up to the front face of the piston. You only need to unscrew the front section of the muzzle if you want to check the vacuum cuff. A touch of grease on the screw thread will stop it corroding, but don't get any grease on the vacuum cuff or its mounting recess in the muzzle as grease will retain sand or particles suspended in the water. Without anything to stick on these go in and out without causing any problems. The vacuum muzzle sealing depends on the lubricating effects of water on the spear shaft and the rubber nozzle of the vacuum cuff. When trying things out on land you need to wet the sliding surfaces down or put a tiny drop of speargun oil on the items. The speargun oil is so thin it evaporates away after a few hours.

 

[Pjk]

Report

I pumped the vac muzzle Mares 70 1.1 to 27 bar,

First of all what an absolute c*nt to load, hardened spear my balls it’s nearly the same shiz & using a tip forward Salvimar loader is light years less reliable given the pressure and resistance comparative to using the stock mares loader with the steel insert.

I did achieve my 4.2m with tension comfortable penetration distance after all but the extra 50cm cost me everything

Alignment is rough with a vac seal, the spine of the spear is in jeopardy past 26 bar & that flexibility weighs heavy when things are rough, I’d personally rather a 25bar wet barrel because it’s easy to load on the go without taking all the care in the world to not fuck anything up regarding alignment, seals and spear integrity.

The vacuum muzzle is more efficient by 50cm but at what cost?

I would prefer to be closer to the fish rather than run the sealed system in my conclusion, it’s just less trouble which is what we want when in the water.

 

[popgun pete]

After testing the sealed muzzle today around three shots into it I happened to cross the gaze of an overlooking, overly concerned neighbour questioning the air powered spear rifle in such ways as asking if it’s an extension of a fishing rod and then accusing me of being the person of late whom would enter the pool area & throw the large filter cap or other into the pool escaping into the night with whatever else came to mind as bored wealthy retired neighbours seem to enjoy in my experience over the past half decade.


I’d say the performance improved but only by a little and a little is a lot when you’re talking about short pneumatics, it’s currently @ 20 bar and already outperforms the 28 bar wet barrel due to less recoil compared to output being near the same distance to power ratio.

I fully endorse the vacuum barrel setup for its efficiency & now I’ll pump it to 28 with complete disregard for the seals since I have 20 of them & the aluminium barrels integrity because if I ruin it I’ll just buy another,

4.2m of line is all you will need with a 70, there’s no miracles here.

I hope you are not shooting the gun on land, the comment about a neighbour overlooking I missed before. Shooting a pneumatic gun on land will eventually ruin it as the density of water is relied on to oppose the spear whether wet barrel or dry barrel.

 

[Pjk]

The overwatching neighbour was observing from a balcony overlooking a unit complex pool,

Understanding the ricochet effect I always dip the spear and cyrano under the water before loading, tilting the gun downward toward the water before attaching the connecting line,

I have no plans to be skewered or die or endanger anyone else during my testing or operations & the neighbour observing my previous tests was ignorant & bored that is all.

I have ran the tests, having a connecting line is a pain in the ass and I would rather free shaft responsibly with a 27 bar wet barrel

This is the way,

Any more and I require a 90cm pneumatic,

I’ll stick with 70.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Report

I pumped the vac muzzle Mares 70 1.1 to 27 bar,

First of all what an absolute c*nt to load, hardened spear my balls it’s nearly the same shiz & using a tip forward Salvimar loader is light years less reliable given the pressure and resistance comparative to using the stock mares loader with the steel insert.

I did achieve my 4.2m with tension comfortable penetration distance after all but the extra 50cm cost me everything

Alignment is rough with a vac seal, the spine of the spear is in jeopardy past 26 bar & that flexibility weighs heavy when things are rough, I’d personally rather a 25bar wet barrel because it’s easy to load on the go without taking all the care in the world to not fuck anything up regarding alignment, seals and spear integrity.

The vacuum muzzle is more efficient by 50cm but at what cost?

I would prefer to be closer to the fish rather than run the sealed system in my conclusion, it’s just less trouble which is what we want when in the water.

Well, you were told about 10-15% upfront improvement - so why did you bother? It seems to me that you can a bit under-pump - to 22. Get 25-equivalent with a dry barrel that reduces recoil and noise. I should be getting my soon - will report as well