New Guns in the works

[frogmansailor]

Hi All,

I'm finally getting down to my winter projects and I wanted to share.

The first, and my most important, is a blue water gun that I hope to use this summer. (I'm going to have regular access to a boat that I can use to get offshore, and can't wait to get a big one!)

I'm going to model it after the riffe island mid handle.

Stock 60" mahogany - 6 laminates 3/8" thick
3 bands-> 5/8" x 28 1/2"
60" shaft at 5/16" diam. with Hawaiian flopper
my own trigger mech. as seen below in CAD
epoxy and marine spar varnish finish

let me know what you think! I have the wood and have the laminates all cut and aligned. They are waiting to be glued, and I'm waiting on my steel.

Project #2

A euro style 90 cm gun also out of mahogany (the leftovers from the cannon of project #1) - 5 laminates 3/8" thick
2 bands 9/16" x 15"
100 cm shaft at 5/16" diam. with Hawaiian flopper
my own trigger mech. (similar to CAD but with the release directly above the trigger)
epoxy and marine spar varnish finish

I have attached pics of my handle for the euro gun, still w/o any finish on it.

Talk it up,
Dave

 

[foxfish]

So how are you going to align your laminates? "T section" perhaps?

 

[frogmansailor]

I was going to use a vertical sandwitch. Like this: IIIIII

 

[foxfish]

Boring!
At least you are using fairly thin lams compared to some builders & I approve of the non teak choice but why not go a little more radical?
6mm lams "T" section = different & beautiful gun?

 

[frogmansailor]

Hey! I'm still getting the hang of this. I'd rather a boring gun that shoots straight over a beautiful hunk of wood for my mantle.

 

[foxfish]

Nothing wrong with playing it safe, you ideas sounds - sound, keep us informed with the project.

 

[foxfish]

You might be interested in reading this - http://forums.deeperblue.net/homemade-spearguns/60291-custom-spearguns-pictures.html#post533041

 

[frogmansailor]

Yes! I've been all over that thread for the past couple weeks. It's in my favorites. Thanks though.

 

[frogmansailor]

Just wondering: do people ever make their own spears? I can't imagine it costing $80 dollars for a stainless steel rod 60" long, yet thats the price for a ready-made spear, which is practically the same thing as the rod just with a few notches and holes in it. I don't have much of a budget here, and the wood already hit me hard - $88 for all the mahogany!

 

[settingsteel]

Seems your well set on your project, congrats!

The t-lam fox mentions is not too complicated to add and quite a few DIY'ers go this route, IMHO unless your minimizing your wood specs (which you are not) I don't think you really need it, but then again it doesn't hurt either (I'm in the process of making a gun with absolute minimal dimensions which has carbon fiber b/t the lams and the actual "T" as well), the same holds for a pored track vs an all wood track (which I would recommend you implement in your gun).

The grip looks great, your trig mech I can't exactly decipher, but Steve Vero (poseiden) makes a great trig/auto release for $75.

Shafts are easy to fabricate in SS, the problem arises when you go into S. springsteel, its the rods that are difficult to secure, Ray Odor-http://www.spearfishing.cc/WebPage1.htm makes them with pins and a doghouse for a good price and quality.

good luck on your project!!!

 

[frogmansailor]

Which exactly do you recommend: pored (poured?) track or all wood track, and what is a pored/poured track? I assume all wood track is just a slot cut on the table saw, or with a router?

The grip is for the 90 cm gun, but I think I'll make a similar one for the blue water gun, probably just a little beefier.

What's the best way to laminate: All the pieces at once or two at a time or two together then on onto the two, etc. ?

Is it bad to have a shaft of just stainless and not of spring steel? I'm having a hard enough time finding someone to sell me stainless around where I live (I don't like buying on the internet).

The trigger mech is not as complicated as it looks. Its basically the same as a simple trigger, but with a long pullrod attached to the trigger (which is now separate from the release lever) and the swing direction on the release lever is reversed. I think it will function well.

Thanks for all the help

 

[settingsteel]

Which exactly do you recommend: pored (poured?) track or all wood track, and what is a pored/poured track? I assume all wood track is just a slot cut on the table saw, or with a router?

Poured track is cutting a channel into your stock then poring poxy (some add graphite powder to the mix) then routing the track (with a half-round), regular (wood) is cutting the track then routing or routing the track with a flute then routing with a half-round...the half round, set at the right depth gives you an enclosed route which IMO is better than a semi enclosed (open) track.

What's the best way to laminate: All the pieces at once or two at a time or two together then on onto the two, etc. ?

I lam all at once after ripping the wood I soak it and let it sit a couple of days, this lets the wood "have its way" read the warp and lam like this (), you can also lam pairs like()-() this then pair those to the others the next day

Is it bad to have a shaft of just stainless and not of spring steel? I'm having a hard enough time finding someone to sell me stainless around where I live (I don't like buying on the internet).

No SS is fine the only difference is Stainless Spring helds straighter longer and is very difficult to bend, IMO you get more for the $$$ with SSpring

The trigger mech is not as complicated as it looks. Its basically the same as a simple trigger, but with a long pullrod attached to the trigger (which is now separate from the release lever) and the swing direction on the release lever is reversed. I think it will function well.

This is one area I would not experiment with unless you are absolutely sure about the max load weight of your mech. compared to the actual load of your gun/s (<>100#/5/8) a misfire in the least is scary, to the extreme it can cost a fellow spearo his life...so make sure you spec it right (quite a bit of info here do a search) as well as the right SS 17-4 I think is the one, hopefully someone else will chime in

 

[frogmansailor]

So the difference between the two is just that one has epoxy (and sometimes graphite powder) as the material that the shaft is sliding on and the other is just the wood? Do they have the same cross sectional shape (b/c you said to rout them both with a half round)? I'm sorry I'm confused. Is the picture I attached of a wood or poured? Maybe a comparison picture would help me? And I still can't quite tell which one you think is better: the poured or the regular?

Thanks for all the help!! Sorry if I seem thick here, I'm just having a hard time getting this straight (my first real attempt at a gun + I haven't been spearfishing before so I don't know terminology) I'll keep this updated, though I will probably only be able to do work on the weekends.

 

[Pastor]

The one in the picture is a wood track but finished with epoxy as a varnish. There is little if any advantage to a derlin or other track. Water will provide all the lubrication you need. A reinforcing piece at the end of the track wouldn't go amiss though

 

[frogmansailor]

Ok. Thats what I had been planning. I gathered a bunch of different pictures from different threads and was planning on trying to combine them for my guns, and this was the type of track I was going to use. (I had already decided to use epoxy finish)

Question: Can the track be square bottomed (ie. cut with a table saw w/ thick blade) or should it be a half round from the router? The table saw cut would be easier to cut straight... but if it should be half-round there's no point in cutting corners if it sacrifices accuracy.

 

[settingsteel]

Question: Can the track be square bottomed (ie. cut with a table saw w/ thick blade) or should it be a half round from the router? The table saw cut would be easier to cut straight... but if it should be half-round there's no point in cutting corners if it sacrifices accuracy.

If you use a delrin track then you need a dovetail in which the track (delrin) slides in, as Pastor mentioned I wouldn't invest in one, and the front (muzzle end) can use use some delrin or UHMW (thats the white cutting board material), but that is not necessary either, just leave the front 6" open (as opposed to enclosed). 2 ways to cut the track, 2 rip passes with the tablesaw enough for the shank of your half-round to fit in (this will also serve as the guide for the half round bit to do its work), or 1 pass on a router table with a 1/4" flute then a second pass with the half-round. If you want to make it enclosed (that is if you turn the gun upside down the shaft won't fall out) then your first cut (followed by the half-round) has to be 1/4"-7/32" max, this will then provide "enclosure for a 9/32" and a 5/16" shaft. On a side note I would first route/chisel the slot for the trig mech, then do the track.

As for the square bottom I guess it would be OK (I think the Riffes are) but that would rule out the enclosed track, this would be more like a "rail" which is OK too better than nothing (as for accuracy), Also note that you can poxy the gun or mix an absorbing poxy blend, whichever you do you need to add a UV protector since poxy has none (except West System 207...I think)

So the difference between the two is just that one has epoxy (and sometimes graphite powder) as the material that the shaft is sliding on and the other is just the wood?...And I still can't quite tell which one you think is better: the poured or the regular?

Yes thats correct, and I think not much difference other than the wood track is easier to make and its what I would go with IMO

Frogmansailor, hope this helps, I'm by no means an expert, I would strongly suggest you read the other threads on gun making, on this board, since most of the stuff discussed here has already been, and I would first do a cheap pine wood sample (which will later allow you to easily dup the cuts) before using your mahagony...just my 2 centavos mate...good luck

 

[frogmansailor]

Thank you for all the help here, settingsteel, I have been around on the other threads, but I just want to make sure I get everything right here.

I was planning on doing an epoxy finish (diluted 10%) until thoroughly filled and then cover it with a marine spar varnish (UV protectant). It's the same coating that I used on my touring kayak (also mahogany).

So if I want an enclosed track I should cut the trigger slot first then do a pass with a 7/32", then do a second pass with a 5/16" (the same as my shaft) half round to make a mostly enclosed cross section? (see pic attached)

I really appreciate all this, I don't need an expert, just someone who has actually seen a speargun in real life before. Yes I'm building my first gun (first in both respects- build and used). I know it isn't the smartest thing to do, but whatever. Any info is helpful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[foxfish]

Dude if you have any spare cash = Enclosed UHMW Track for Spearguns

 

[frogmansailor]

Hmmmmmm...

 

[settingsteel]

Thank you for all the help here, settingsteel, I have been around on the other threads, but I just want to make sure I get everything right here.

I was planning on doing an epoxy finish (diluted 10%) until thoroughly filled and then cover it with a marine spar varnish (UV protectant). It's the same coating that I used on my touring kayak (also mahogany).

So if I want an enclosed track I should cut the trigger slot first then do a pass with a 7/32", then do a second pass with a 5/16" (the same as my shaft) half round to make a mostly enclosed cross section? (see pic attached)

I really appreciate all this, I don't need an expert, just someone who has actually seen a speargun in real life before. Yes I'm building my first gun (first in both respects- build and used). I know it isn't the smartest thing to do, but whatever. Any info is helpful and appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

Thats it exactly:friday

I would if possible, make your first pass a bit deeper so as to create a thicker "lip" on the top part of the track, which if hit with the shaft might crack it, also the last 4"-6" (muzzle...speaking of which have you decided on how the bands will align on the barrel, it may have an influence on the end product) should be open so just pass 5/16" bit a little less deep to open it up (personally I also open the last 2" be the trig mech.)...also the bit you want to use is posted in another thread by fox, 5/16 is way to big...and hey man I think its a great idea to build your own, I'm starting a few carbon/teak ones now...IMO full delrin or UHMH (cutting board material)is a waste of $$$, perhaps just the 4-6" of muzzle is all I would do if any, if you decide this avenue you need to dovetail a slot for the UHMH...good luck