New Seatec Gabbiano 2009!

[Magpie]

Hmmm... it's things like that, that totally put me off as a customer.

Hearing that, I'm genuinely put of buying Seatec.

If they can't be bothered to update their website... that for me certainly raises a few questions... totally unprofessional :naughty

It's funny, for me, it makes me more inclined to buy from them than from some massive company with huge marketing and production capacity that can churn out masses of gear at will.

Makes me think that they'll be paying far more attention to the actual product than spending loads on creating an impression of the product through advertising.

Long live the small guys!

 

[Broseidon]

It's funny, for me, it makes me more inclined to buy from them than from some massive company with huge marketing and production capacity that can churn out masses of gear at will.

Makes me think that they'll be paying far more attention to the actual product than spending loads on creating an impression of the product through advertising.

Long live the small guys!

I genuinely could not agree less.

I can't see the inference that great products and attention to detail will come from a company that can't be bothered to market themselves or keep an updated website. Totally illogical.

I don't care about advertising, I care about reputation, but when i see sloppy mismanagement of the most simple and basic of business principles, the shop front (in this case website) - it spells bad news.

I'll still probably buy a Seatec gun though

 

[Magpie]

To each their own mate.

Me I suppose I'm just drawn to businesses who got into that business because they were good at the making the thing they're selling, not because they're good at advertising and promoting a product.

Me, I care about the product, not the fanfare surrounding it. You talk about business principles as though it's vital for any company to aim to conquer the world. There's nothing wrong with knowing your patch and being happy to stick to it. This is a small Italian company who evidently are happy to stay that way, and good luck to them.

If it makes it harder to obtain all the better imho, more satisfying when you do track one down.

But maybe thats just me. All I know is I could build a good website, but I couldn't build a gun as good as the Gabbiano. That's why I'm in IT, not in manufacturing spearfishing equipment.

 

[Broseidon]

To each their own mate.

Me I suppose I'm just drawn to businesses who got into that business because they were good at the making the thing they're selling, not because they're good at advertising and promoting a product.

Me, I care about the product, not the fanfare surrounding it. You talk about business principles as though it's vital for any company to aim to conquer the world. There's nothing wrong with knowing your patch and being happy to stick to it. This is a small Italian company who evidently are happy to stay that way, and good luck to them.

If it makes it harder to obtain all the better imho, more satisfying when you do track one down.

But maybe thats just me. All I know is I could build a good website, but I couldn't build a gun as good as the Gabbiano. That's why I'm in IT, not in manufacturing spearfishing equipment.

I'm in IT stuff too - I know exactly what you're saying and I agree with you but it really bugs me when just a tiny bit of web work would make such a difference!

As I said, I don't care about marketing rubbish, I care about reputation, that's why even though I'm moaning, I'll still buy a Seatec gun

I don't think every company needs to conquer the world, but I do think that they need to put a tiny bit of effort into making their products available! It's just a shame that great products are not made easier to get hold of - for me and for them!

 

[Broseidon]

Back on topic - how do people think the Snake will compage to the TRB?

I've only ever used screw-in band guns, is there any real difference?

 

[mundial]

another point
rhe SEATEC shaft 6.5 mm used in the snake
is one hell of a shaft
it is heavy like a RA shaft 7 mm !!
so the use of 2 bands are a must
i woudnt use the X-FIRE shaft on it only if you use 1 band

good luck mate

 

[daveduvet]

What shaft would you use if you were only using one band?

 

[mundial]

same as the TRB
a 6.0 mm seatec
its made from heavy strong steel
better than the regular ones that comes
with almost every simple EURO gun

 

[Mr. X]

another point
rhe SEATEC shaft 6.5 mm used in the snake
is one hell of a shaft
it is heavy like a RA shaft 7 mm !!
so the use of 2 bands are a must
...

The 6.6mm RA spear is pretty butch, without being OTT. Tri-cut point is not super-sharp IMO.
http://www.roballen.co.za/

However I like the slim 6.3mm stainless steel spear that comes on the Omer XXV's, with the recessed flopper/barb (designed by Marco Bardi?). I was thinking about smoothing the notch grooves on the way home tonight, so that I can switch to a dyneema wishbone (like Mundial, I think - any tips?) but the notches go so deep into the slim shaft that I wonder if it might weaken it too much. I think using a slim spear is great - it probably goes real fast & penetrates really well but I can't see ever wanting to go less than 6.3mm diameter (famous last words). Seatec make good gear, so interested to read Mundials recommendation.

The 6.3mm Omer spear has two notches too - can you image using two rubbers on a 6.3mm spear, esp. if the grooves have been smoothed out - the mind boggles.

I use the 6.6mm RA & 6.3mm Omer spears with a single rubber (16 then 20mm for the former, 18mm with the latter) and both work just fine.

I hate to admit it but I really prefer the stainless steel spears too, so far. They don't seem to need as much sharpening or cleaning & oiling - pretty maintenance free so far. Pity Omer don't profile the grooves for dyneema though - although I'm sure I saw some in a Picasso catalog(ue).

BTW Is stainless steel generally harder or softer than the regular carbon steel steel used in knives (440?) and/or the spring steel used in RA spears? I've read what appears to be contradictory information. e.g. stainless steel is hard to sharpen because it is so hard, stainless steel won't hold an edge because it is softer than carbon steel.

 

[Mr. X]

It's funny, for me, it makes me more inclined to buy from them than from some massive company with huge marketing and production capacity that can churn out masses of gear at will.

Makes me think that they'll be paying far more attention to the actual product than spending loads on creating an impression of the product through advertising.

Long live the small guys!

I'm with Magpie on this one, it makes them seem more likely to be crafted (esp. being Italian) and the difficulty getting them makes them more exclusive -- however, it also means that you are a lot less likely to buy one. I'm beginning to get fed up with "the big corporate thing" -- even the government are playing at being a big corporation these days -- so it must be passe'. It just seems like a rather weak excuse to charge more for things than they are worth (well you have pay for the glossy websites & brochures & executives & diversity training & my nice suit & the business consultants & PowerPoint presentations & ...).

I like Omer, they seem very professional and high-tech but still dedicated and close to spearing -- not part of some big faceless SCUBA or outdoor pursuits or sports gear conglomorate (but perhaps they are!). I really like Rob Allen Divefactory too - focused on doing a few key products really well & they really seem to care about the customers - excellent people & products. In the climbing gear world, the once great Karrimor ("Made in England, carefully") is now just another brand belonging to some awful conglomorate, unlike the awesome Black Diamond in America or DMM in Wales (or did they merge with WildCountry?!), run by a handful of enthusiast climbers.

 

[Mr. X]

I've only ever used screw-in band guns, is there any real difference?

Not really IMHO, at least not with the in-line South African -style bulk-rubber muzzles. If you use bulk rubber, the rubbers can be a bit cheaper and using a dyneema wishbone would make it more finger friendly and quieter -- also more rubber & less wasted space.

 

[daveduvet]

i woudnt use the X-FIRE shaft on it only if you use 1 band

Mundial, do you mean that:
For one band use the x-fire shaft.
For two bands use the seatec shaft.

Also is there a rule that says what length the bands should be on a speargun?

Sorry but I need to be very clear on this so i can prepare for the summer!

 

[spaghetti]

The history of the Seatec factory is pretty amazing, and if you're curious I'll tell you some bits.
The first relevant thing to notice is the location, in the northern italian Province of Brescia. That's the historical firearms district, where some of the most prestigious firearm factories are located, some of which have been there for 5 centuries: Beretta, Perazzi, Bernardelli, Tanfoglio, Breda, Franchi, Gamba and countless others.
For those who don't know much of the firearms scene, just one hint: at the last 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing, fifteen medals (15 Olympic medals) in the various shooting sports have been won by shooters using guns made in the Brescia district (Perazzi, Beretta and Gamba in the order). This says it all.

How does Seatec relate to this reality? Seatec factory employs people who have been in the firearm crafting for generations. And even now that thay make spearguns, they're still the same poeple who have been crafting some of the world's best firearms for centuries.

The current Seatec's chief engineer, Valerio Grassi, has put it clear: "our spearguns are real weapons, not toys".

He himself used to be a contractor for Beretta, making triggers and other stainless steel microfusion gunparts for Beretta rifles in Grassi's family small factory, named Officine Meccaniche Rezzato (O.Me.R.).

Being an avid spearo too, Grassi started making his own custom spearguns in the early 60's, by modifying the bulky Beuchat's available at that time (who looked like JBL's: thick spears, feeble bands and rocky triggers). Initially it was only a hobby, while making firearms parts remained the core bussiness. But then Grassi's first custom modified spearguns were so much better than the standards, that he decided to make a business of it: he founded a new branch of his Omer factory, named Omersub.
Yes, it was the actual Omer: the current designer of Seatec guns used to be the founder and owner of Omer.
In a relatively short time, Omer spearfishing gear became a world wide success between the 70's and the 80's. It is said that at one point the small factory was no more capable to manage such a bigworld wide success, to the extent that, in the 90's, Valerio Grassi sold Omer to a big conglomerate, the Beta group.

Grassi's "unemployment", though, lasted only a couple of years. At sudden he founded a new society together with the Marcelli brothers, owners of a small metal craft factory near Brescia (they had been making shafts/spears for Omer in the previous years), and with another ex Omer employee, who had started his own business with a patent for polyurethane coated alluminum tubes (the actual Gabbiano barrels). That's Seatec.

Started from nothing, just from the skills of a few small craftsmen, Seatec is now slowly gaining positions in the spearfishing gear market.
And here the music starts: "Pump and circumstance". paaaa pa pa pa paaa paaa :friday

 

[the_milkman]

Spaghetti, would you happen to know whether the Gabbiano 2009 Open has an open muzzle like this:

Testata open trb gabbiano : Tutto Pesca Mare

Basically - I'm looking to buy a Gabby, but with the open head so I can used looped power bands. I'll then upgrade to the 6.3mm Australian Shark fin spear with the notches for use with dyneema. There appear to be types of Gabbiano for sale at Seaandmore.it, one called the Gabbiano 2009, one called the Gabbiano 2009 Open. I'm just wondering whether the Open really refers to that muzzle I've posted a link to, or whether I'll have to buy that separately, along with the shaft?

Thanks!

 

[the_milkman]

Sorry, should clarify that the pic of the Gabbiano Open on the site still shows the old screw-in bands...is this a mistake?

 

[spaghetti]

Milkman, the Trb open muzzle is the same I use and it's okay with sharkfin shafts.
But note well that the Trb muzzle is ONLY for screw-in bands, not circular.
The muzzle that works with loop (circular) bands is the Snake muzzle.
In facts, the Snake is the same gun as the Gabbiano Trb, with the only difference in the muzzle: the Snake an open muzzle with holes for loop bands, while the Gabbiano Trb (open or closed) mounts the Trb articulated muzzle for screw-in bands only.

 

[the_milkman]

Thanks for clearing that up, Spaghetti.

I got confused because I thought this muzzle had a circle for looped bands:

Testata open trb gabbiano : Tutto Pesca Mare

So if I want to use dyneema wishbones and sharkfin spear which is the better gun to buy:

Snake, and change the wishbone, upgrade the spear
Gabbiano and buy some thread adapters to use bulk rubber, upgrade the spear

Thanks again!

 

[the_milkman]

Think I've answered my own question with 5 mins looking at them. Snake and Gabby are same gun with different muzzle. Gabby is 144 Euros. snake is 209. Snake muzzle is 29 euros....gotta be the gabby!

 

[strangelove]

Spaghetti

Thanks for the spear fishing history lesson ! That was great reading.

 

[Mr. X]

...Also is there a rule that says what length the bands should be on a speargun?

Yes, I've seen a couple of rules of thumb posted on the forum at different times. However, I think most people refer the Rob Allen or Rabitech bulk rubber length tables / charts, which appear on several websites and several existing DeeperBlue threads.

Here is the Rob Allen bulk rubber length chart / table (which also show how to tie a constrictor knot for hold wishbones in) at http://deep-blue-water.com/pics/Knots 2.JPG:

Examples of other sources of similar information (they'll be some variation between sources):
Adrenaline Spearfishing Supplies - Dive Equipment Specalists
http://forums.deeperblue.com/euro-spearguns/70229-circular-bands-cutting-lenght.html
http://forums.deeperblue.com/euro-spearguns/79144-band-length-dilemma.html