[News] Famed Magician In Freediving World Record Stunt

[jome]

If I understood correctly, he will be "living" on scuba in water for 7 days and then do the attempt?

Sounds pretty whacky. It would be cool if he does it. Then again, I must selfishly say I would be dissapointed if someone can just break the world record with a few months of training... Having invested considerably more time on my own performance and never getting even close.

It does not specify at all how he's going to do it. But if he's breathing from a scuba at depth and then does his thing, then of course it is not at all the same thing as starting at the surface. Even a few meters of depth would give a significant advantage. Then again, living in water for 7 days might be "a bit" of a disadvantage.

Anyway, it should fun, too bad we don't get that show here...

 

[er453r]

but won't a week in water detach his skin from his bones or something? :/

 

[kingohyes]

Maybe he will secretly breath pure 02 from his scuba tanks for some minutes before the attempt The general public may not know the prolongation effect 02 has on the static..

 

[AltSaint]

If he is breathing air under pressure for several days beforehand, then surely he has a better ability to play around with gas variables due to the higher partial pressures. For instance, if he increases workload at depth, wouldn’t his blood CO2 levels be higher because not as much can come out of solution at a higher pressure? And therefore a potential increase in CO2 tolerance??

Here are a few other questions to ponder:

1. Aside from any fees, what do PFI hope to gain from this? If Blaine succeeds, then what image will this give to the world about Freediving’s current top breatholders? That anyone can do the same with the right coaching and preparation?? If he fails then what will that say about PFI coaching abilities?

2. Why have AIDA not ( seemingly ) been involved?

3. What makes Blaine think he will succeed? He must have some measure of his current abilities, and he obviously knows where he has to get to, so how does he think he will get there?

It will be very interesting to see what happens. Whether or not it is good publicity for freediving will surely depend on the way it is produced, and to some extent the outcome.

 

[Haydn]

Aida can and must be there to validate this attempt (whether invited or not) because:

An official announcement to the world has been made most publically that this is a real attempt on the world record. Furthermore, this attempt is being promoted by Freedivings most high profile schools and athletes who are affiliated Aida members.

These members are making these announcements knowing they fly in the face of their governing body, knowing the attempt they are promoting as a world record can never be ratified and therefore if he were to suceed, David Blaine will not receive his record. Maybe if David suceeds, he doesnt want the record ratified because he knows a few magic tricks and intends to cheat but doesnt want to rob Tom. However, David (if truely successful) will be robbed because the organisers failed to abide by the rules of their governing body. However, Kirk might assist David to contend his record should stand despite Aida because media pressure is more powerful. Can you imagine David breaking 10 minutes, being hailed by the TV as the world record holder and the presenter passing over to the trainer. TV Presenter, "Well Kirk, what do you think of Davids new World Record?" Will Kirk then say "Actually it cannot be accepted because I broke these rules........... and David broke these ones............Really he cheated by doing this....... and this........this attempt would never be ratified by any of the sports governing bodies."

Personally I believe both Kirk and David are aware that Davids methods would result in an Aida disqualification, therefore no invite to Aida. So what authority has Kirk employed to validate Davids attempt?

Aidas powers should provide for Aida to attend any event organised by an Aida member. It really is that simple. Just write it into the constitution.

At the end of the day, without Aida, no one will believe it.

 

[Cliff Etzel]

The challenge I see in all this is not the fact that he is even attempting this - it is the fact that, as you stated Haydn, there are known entities that are affiliated with AIDA involved in this spectacle and as such, they bring into the public spotlight an attempt that can either tarnish or help the sport of freediving.

Whether or not he actually does this is a moot point - the public's opinions are such that they will make said opinion as fact regarding the sport - and if it does side towards the negative - well...

Personally, I see what Tanya Streeter is doing for the sport as truly being an ambassador and a positive influence - Doing shows on Animal Planet, spokesperson for environmental causes, promoting them on talk shows, etc. She let's her accomplishments speak for themselves...

Too much ego it seems these days in the sport..

Now back to Video Editing...

 

[Stephan Whelan]

The main stunt is going to be David living underwater for 7 days. The "end-event" to make something more interesting at the live show will be the breath-hold.

From the public's perspective they don't care if AIDA is there. They don't know what AIDA, FREE, CMAS or anyone else is. All they will care about is whether the little clock in the screen shows more than 8'58.

Imagine if AIDA is there and David comes up with a slight samba that no-one but a good AIDA judge can spot - or if he has a slight tremor that isn't picked up by the audience and TV cameras. How will the public understand? Will they care?

 

[tylerz]

Imagine if AIDA is there and David comes up with a slight samba that no-one but a good AIDA judge can spot - or if he has a slight tremor that isn't picked up by the audience and TV cameras. How will the public understand? Will they care?

... your point expresses exactly the opposite of what PFI and affiliates always argued regarding the LMC rule. Even if a rule set were to be made that did not allow sambas that impeded the diver's abilities, PFI and many others seem to still be inclined to disallow a performance based upon "slight tremor"s.

 

[smellsfishy]

Wow, great thread. I think I'll weigh in with my 2 cents.

David Blaine is an illusionist and a performer similar in style to Harry Houdini. His goal is to entertain and amaze us. He walks a fine line between endurance and "magic" flustering our attempts at assessing the reality of the event. Judging by all the interest and passion in this thread I'd say he's already succeeded in capturing our full attention.

Eric F asked why he "nearly died of hypothermia after 61 hours in an ice block". Was this fact real and independently confirmed, or were we led to believe it via some clever marketing ? I don't know. The Guinness Book rejected his ice endurance claim as "little different from living in an igloo or an ice hotel." http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/09/04/uk.blaine/

It is my contention that David could better achieve his goals by not breaking Tom's 8:58 AIDA record. Let me try and explain...

It's been my experience that when dealing with the average non-freediver (the bulk of the audience) they are amazed by the fact that there are humans who can hold their breath for 4 minutes let alone 9. I think many of them would be huge skeptics of David beating a world record and accomplishing an 8:58+ breath hold and dismiss the entire event as a sham. If however he were to come up after holding his breath for 7 minutes, but short of an established record, I think the average Joe would become a believer and start asking themselves "How did he do that ?". David Blaine would then be successful without successfully breaking a record.

Well if the above turns out to be true then I think it's pretty obvious what's in it for the Performance Freediving team.

#1. A (hopefully) well paying gig
#2. Great promotion for freediving with the average joe asking how can I learn to hold my breath like that ?
#3. Coverage of PFD training "An inside look at his training will be shown on the ABC special" http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/04/13/people.davidblaine.ap/index.html

Any which way I think I'll pass by the event and say hi to the PFD crew and tap on the glass like the rest of the sidewalk gawkers

 

[efattah]

David Blaine is an illusionist and a performer similar in style to Harry Houdini.

Please state what evidence you have to support that claim.

Please state which of David's stunts have been illusions.

After the 61 hour ice stunt, David collapsed and was taken to the hospital with severe hypothermia. You can read independent reports of this anywhere.

After the 44 day fast, independent scientists took blood samples and published the results.

Once again pleases state which stunts were illusions and were did you get evidence to support that claim.

If David's stunts were illusions, then he wouldn't cancel the stunts he couldn't perform. He was training in chi-gong to perform a stunt where he would be shot in the stomach with a gun -- and suffer minimal injury. He spent months training but ultimately cancelled the stunt because he wasn't able to do it. If he were an illusionist, he could have easily faked it and would have gone full forward with the event.

 

[Panos Lianos]

1) AIDA Judges can ONLY go if they are selected by AIDA. And they can only be selected if the organizer (no matter who he or she is) ASKS for judges to be there and validate a record attempt. At least 6 weeks before the attempt. Also, the athlete must do a prerequisite performance within the 3 months before the attempt. In the case of static apnea he must do a breathhold no more than 15 seconds less than the existing record.

2) The fact that people affiliated with AIDA are involved, means nothing. Everyone is free to do what they want.

3) I'm not sure Kirk will be "employed" to validate the attempt and I'm not sure Kirk is the organiser. From what I have read, Kirk, Martin and Mandy will be there as coaches and safetydivers. Maybe they will be paid, maybe not.

4) This event is already a success. They have our attention.

 

[smellsfishy]

Eric,

Here are a few quotes:

"David's hero is Houdini, who also took magic to the streets"

http://www.scottkim.com/inversions/gallery/davidblaine.html
quote

"(I want to bring magic) to a level where Houdini had it a hundred years ago. When you thought of magic, you were intrigued... you were emotionally moved by it. It had a meaning and a purpose."
-David Blaine

http://www.askmen.com/men/entertainment_60/79_david_blaine.html

"Houdini has always fascinated David. Blaine notes that he is performing a trick Houdini never accomplished but always wanted to do"

http://www.magicdirectory.com/blaine/buriedalive.shtml

I'm sure there are many others but I just grabbed the first few I found.
-------------------

Eric, It sounds like you take issue with my classifying David's "performances" as illusions. Well that's not exactly what I'm saying. My opinion is "He walks a fine line between endurance and "magic"". I'm not stating fact, I'm simply stating my opinion. For example with his ice stunt I feel that there is an element of illusion to that "performance" as it implies being encased in ice at when in fact there was a blanket of air that kept him to some extent cushioned. Quite frankly simply standing erect for 61 hours is a feat in itself.

As far as the reporting of the fact that he collapsed and was taken to the hospital with severe hypothermia ... Do you think the reporters who reported that fact were given open access to David's doctors and medical records, or more likely a publicist issued a statement along the lines of "David Blaine was admitted to such and such hospital with severe hypothermia..." I'm a skeptic, and while I'm not saying it didn't happen, I don't assume it did happen just because it was reported (Yes I'm aware of the irony that this negates my earliler reliance on reported quotes)

Anyways, I think Howard Stern said it best when he said, "No matter what we think, he can and will go right back to scoring with supermodels"

 

[Haydn]

The devil on one shoulder tells me that Davids attempt is a trick, illusion or cheat and that it will succeed and be promoted as a world record supported by Kirk and his team. This is an insult which devalues our true efforts and should be subject to Aida disciplinary action. The angel on the other shoulder says the idea is a fantastic PR coo giving the world a valuable insight into the underwater world of breathold. TV coverage alone will be worth millions.

What if its for real? No pre breathing exotic gases or beta blocker drugs in his food. Just a great teacher with a well prepared athlete taught the standard protocols. Maybe 7 days in scuba really is a better pre comp routine than a 45 minute warm up doing a static table. Maybe David can bring something natural to the attempt, reduce his heart rate at will, employing some unknown to us expertise that he has been practicing for many years and will be fully explained to us in the coming weeks. Maybe after the televised attempt, David will attend The Dahab triple depth comp to examine freediving more fully.

This thread will run like a wild stallion. I just fear we are all being conned and can see many ordinary people emailing Kirk to book a course. Maybe someone will remove the gag and Kirk explains the real deal.

 

[featherland]

>> please state which...

You don't really believe David Blaine can levitate himself?

I think you hit the nail on the head... he is going to do a 10 minute static by prepping with O2. Geraldo doesn't open empty vaults anymore. Does this feat take training? Absolutely. Should my Daddy's US record be removed from the books? Of course not. And that is why AIDA won't be there.

I'm just mad that David Letterman or Jay Leno didn't respond to me when I told them I thought it would be good TV to put my Daddy in a tank on-stage after he broke the US record. But I guess Hollywood thinks David Blaine is more "camera friendly". I disagree. I think my Daddy just needs a better agent

Yes, this guy walks a fine line between "magic" and "performance art". Actually so do MANY magicians nowadays. David Copperfield is, like, soooo-1980's!

Ever see Penn and Teller in concert? Their bit on "fire-eating" is extremely relevant.
--Lorraine

 

[efattah]

Once again I would ask why would someone 'cancel' an attempt because he can't do it, if it is only an illusion?

 

[smellsfishy]

Eric,

I meant to answer you earlier by simply stating that I didn't know anything about any canceled events and the first I had heard about it was from you. I forgot to include it in my earlier post.

However, now that you are reiterating your question I can offer some suppositions - each more ridiculous than the next of course

1. Lack of sponsorship. Sponsors would be worried that somebody would "try it at home"

2. It would lend credence and hype to other events. If he accomplished everything he set out to do we wouldn't be that interested. He wants to keep us riveted to find out if he'll succeed or fail.

3. How does one fill a one hour special with getting shot ?

4. He couldn't fit it in with his busy schedule scoring with super models

5. He's actually planning on having Kirk shoot him after he does a 14:32 breath hold on may 8th

By the way ....

Who did he shoot to determine he "wasn't able to do it" ?

 

[rhillier]

Greetings,

I've been reading the forums for the last while with the intent of possibly getting involved in freediving.

I'm likely to get flamed for this, but if everyone would just take a couple of steps backward, they may see some merit to what I am about to say.

From the view of someone on the outside, it appears the freediving community consists of a relatively small population of individuals with its top performers being very revered. It seems that there are relatively few of these top performers, as I always seem to see the same few names being mentioned over and over again. Kind of like they're the big fish in a very small pond (but deeper then hell, I'll admit), and everyone wants it to stay that way.

Then, along comes someone from outside of this little circle, such as David Blaine, who possibly threatens to knock one of the most revered off his perch and everyone goes ballistic and starts knocking him and making all kinds of assumptions before he has even had a chance to perform. Why not wait until the event is over before passing judgement. If it indeed some sort of magic trick, so be it. That's the time to throw stones at him... But if it wasn't, but he winds up doing something remarkable in front of a worldwide audience, give the guy his due credit. The fact that it isn't recognized by AIDA doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, but that's what all of this looks like from outside of the freediving community.

 

[Fondueset]

It's innacurate to indulge in polarized thinking about Blaine. He is both an illusionist and a kind of Fakir - or Yogi - in the sense of exploring non-standard degrees of bodily and mental control. Clearly he has an interest in employing will to overcome physical limitations - so it is incorrect to categorize him as an 'illusionist'. Illusion related tricks are certain part of his repertoire - but fasting is not an illusion (by the way - hi marks to the brit who flew a radio-controlled helo dangling a hot dog up to the plexiglass tank) and neither was living inside an ice block or studying Qigong. Living underwater for 7 days is going to be rough on the skin - unless he has some sort of coating on - but would, I think, mainly be an exercise in boredom - unless he's out in open water.

Because he is an entertainer he may well forgo an official world record on the breath-hold attempt - a good reason would be the technicalities involved in getting it certified - but he may also go for it full on - in which case I'm sure someone will explain the rules so everybody can understand.

In any case he's unlikely to cheat - particularly with the Performance Freediving folks along. What would be the point - "I broke the world record but I cheated'?

Blaine is a pretty talented guy - he crosses the magician line by a good bit.

 

[Will]

It is this simple:

1. Blaine wants to hold his breath for longer than 8:58
2. 8:58 is the AIDA world record
3. Therefore Blaine wants to beat the AIDA record
4. Therefore Blaine must subscribe to AIDA regulations

Example: I am a swimmer. I want to break the Olympic backstroke 100m record. I go down to my local pool (about 33m long), and swim 3 laps in a time that is faster than the Olympic record, while a film crew records. Am I the Olympic champion? No.

Can Blaine claim to be AIDA world champion with a 9'00" apnea? No.
OK, so he will be 'unofficial world champion' right? Wrong. The unofficial WR is 10'08" (or 9' something, depending on 'levels of officialness').

If Blaine holds for more than 8'58" but less than 10'06" and claims the WR, or if he fakes the attempt, then he is a fraud, and his performance won't help the sport (and will be an insult to Tom Sietas).
Basically you can't keep a goat and a cabbage - Blaine wants to break the AIDA WR, but doesn't want to use AIDA rules

So my guess is that the 7 days & nights underwater is the bonafide stunt, and the breathold will be the 'illusion.'

 

[efattah]

Initially I would be inclined to agree with Will, that the unofficial record to beat is 10'08".... except.... that Tom's 10'08" was done in private in very relaxing conditions. David Blaine's attempt will be in far worse and more stressful conditions than Tom's 8'58"... after all Tom didn't have 5 million people watching him live on TV with his professional career at risk in the case of failure.

The longest breath hold with a 'large' audience is Tom Sietas' 9'24" done at the Vancouver AIDA worlds in 2004, which had about 60 spectators... enough to confirm it was real, but still shy of 5 million viewers.

The longest breath hold with a huge audience and huge pressure is Stephane Mifsud's 8'28" done in Monaco, which had about 1,000 spectators including the Prince of Monaco, plus hundreds more spectators live on the internet through the live online feed.