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[News] Famed Magician In Freediving World Record Stunt

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Certainly if he had announced that he will break the world record in marathon running in 3 months, and has so far made it in like 3h 30min...It would be met with a healthy doze of skeptisism in some runner's formus?

I'm not saying it is impossible, but it will be very hard. There are certain physiological limits and restrictions why 9 minute statics are very rare. Personally I don't believe there is any "Jedi mind trick" one can learn and suddenly beat it. Like in any sport, he must train...But it is also a trick that is very easy to "cheat" and make it look amazing to the layman. Just few puffs from a special bottle...

With his resources, and a baseline at 5:30, with 3 months to go...It's not impossible. I for one would welcome a new player.

But as far as being a "world record", I agree with Will.

Personally I think whatever he does, how and how long, it will be good publicity for freediving. So good luck to him!
 
Greetings Rhillier,

It is good to hear your perspective as one not actively involved in practicing freediving and interacting in person with those who are. It emphasizes to me the large ease for differences in perspective based on one's experience of media and forums as opposed to first hand person-to-person interactions. Your perception of what is happening here is very relevant because it suggests possibly many other unannounced people are doing the same.

However, as a person having interacted with many freedivers, I did not experience this thread in the same way you have, so I thought I might share some of that with you in response to some of your perceptions.

rhillier said:
From the view of someone on the outside, it appears the freediving community consists of a relatively small population of individuals with its top performers being very revered. It seems that there are relatively few of these top performers, as I always seem to see the same few names being mentioned over and over again. Kind of like they're the big fish in a very small pond (but deeper then hell, I'll admit), and everyone wants it to stay that way.
I don't perceive the top performers as being very revered. Or more specifically, not necessarily moreso than others in the community who are noted for accomplishments. Often the revere that does exist for top performers is very local or by those who have not had much interaction with the wider range of unique and exciting individuals that are not focused on in the media for records. Of course a record holder becomes the references in many peoples' mind and gives us all something to be attracted to.

In any sport the record holders tend to be referenced more often than those who are also top performers yet do not claim a record. So, my point is that what you are probably not seeing in the media and not easily on these forums, is that there are quite a good handful of top performers and unfortunately we don't refer to them enough in forums and media. Also the posts in threads often are filled with comments by people who are new to the sport and have entered with a certain revere for a specific individual. Those who have been around for a significant amount of time and have had the oppotunity to interact more deeply in the community are less likely to be commenting with much revere of any one individual. This means your perception of the community's opinion may not really reflect the community but moreso those who are new to the community.

Which brings me to the last point in the quote. I don't think many of us who have been involved in the community in depth at all want only those at the top to stay at the top. Maybe some of those at the top do and some of the new fans. Isn't that the way fame works? Fans try to ensure their hero is a hero. But the greater amount of freedivers, from my experience, are excited at the potential of new faces entering, with new surprises and more participants challenging the limits. I don't think too many active participants in the freediving community really care one way or another what David Blaine were to achieve in the short time he has been involved. However, sincerity is a hard thing to find and something that many of us treasure. We try to explore our limits, our physiology, our unknown potential, and share experiences to compare what is possible. So, hopefully it is understandable that if there is doubt as to the integrity and sincerity of the event in the eyes of those experienced in the freediving community, this could be a challenging thing to deal with.

Then, along comes someone from outside of this little circle, such as David Blaine, who possibly threatens to knock one of the most revered off his perch and everyone goes ballistic and starts knocking him and making all kinds of assumptions before he has even had a chance to perform.
Yes, some of the comments in this thread are a little more flippant than others, and some of us are less practiced than others at voicing our thoughts/feelings. But all-in-all I don't think what you suggest here is "actually" what is happening or trying to be conveyed. I don't think we care about anybody losing their position as record holder. Most of us acknowledge the top dogs at this time do not have the record. Therefore, Blaine will only be "winning" a formality if he actually succeeds. Which should emphasize he is not knocking anybody off their perch. The issue is the insincerity that may go along with claiming it is a world record for the two reasons of lack of formality and lack of actually topping the current best. It is not going to change our minds in the community of who has the best breathhold, but depending on how it is handled if he were to succeed it could be an injustice to others who have done better yet have not claimed record due to accepted formality.

Why not wait until the event is over before passing judgement. If it indeed some sort of magic trick, so be it. That's the time to throw stones at him... But if it wasn't, but he winds up doing something remarkable in front of a worldwide audience, give the guy his due credit. The fact that it isn't recognized by AIDA doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
People are not waiting for the event to end, because voicing opinions has an effect. The people involved in the event are close to many in the community and directly affected by the communities opinions (PFI). Therefore, whether conscious or not people with concerns are putting voices out there that may reach the ears of those involved and therefore suggest and possibly influence how things take place. Likely it won't influence things, but it at least puts the voice out there and a responsibility on those who represent the community. So, what you see as throwing stones at David Blaine, is in my opinion, people trying to ensure PFI has considered the concerns that affect the community and those who participate in freediving. Safety of newcomers to the activity, promoting sport popularity, justice to those who go through formalities to claim record, are the 3 things in this thread that are trying to be expressed as concerns. It is not throwing stones, but actual concerns that many will feel are important and dear to our sport and community.

Now, all that said, I want to reemphasize that your points are wonderful, as that is how you perceived things through these forums and other channels you experienced. This is a lesson to those participating that if their meaning doesn't match with your perception, then maybe more emphasis and caution is required in their expression. However, I hope some of my expression aids in seeing a more realistic and sincere view of possibly what our community is like, what their concerns are, and what their concerns are not.

Because I have attempted to clarify my perception of the community and this thread, I am in no way suggesting I agree, support, promote, disagree, with those points as I have perceived them. Just emphasizing how different my perception is from the one you experienced.

Thanks and sincerest regards,

Tyler

PS. My feelings to date in this thread and why I have not commented, are because:
- everything is speculation at this point.
- I don't really suspect that David Blaine would claim his performance (if he makes it) as a world record.
- the resulting speculation of an increase in deaths due to his portrayal of the sport in the media, is a complex issue that I don't see as being simply black and white.
- sport popularity, I am neutral to.
- nobody hears my voice anyhow, it is too low amidst the noise. ;)
 
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Whilst we recognise that David Blaine receives his world acclaim, not by suceeding in his stunts, but by creating fantastic stunts and making everybody wonder whether the stunt was for real. Therefore the mistery is what he is selling, not the success. We know some of his successes are tricks and illusions. So now we have to wonder whether this static will be another illusion. I wonder whether we will ever know the truth of it, and that is the main concern. On the other hand, Kirk and his team have earnt great respect throughout the freediving world. I cant believe they would want to be involved if it becomes obvious to them, that David intends to make this another illusion (which would be great TV) or actually cheat. Would Kirk really allow David to breathe O2 from his last bottle? So, after more thought, I think Kirk has got himself in a brilliant challenge to get David successfully through this attempt, in accordance with the rules that count in static, probably a top time, taps and responses but maybe not the usuall exit protocols. I expect Kirk is simply not bothering with all the red tape type rules, especially those of making the record formal. (Therefore no arguments with Aida red cards due to humour violations or acting up to the cameras, which is Davids job) . It is enough to know that Kirk has the opportunity to apply his training techniques to a person who probably brings different strengths to the table than any other freediver before him. Freediving has seen world class athletes (Natalia) blow us all away because of their pre existing foundation. David has probably got some very real strengths in control and technique. I think he will have a worthy attempt. And really wouldnt we all want to see a static attempt judged simply on did he hold his breath for xxxx time or not? On such a big stage, it would be awful for a successful attempt to be disqualified because of any kind of unfair judgements like, it cant count because the judge was not wearing his Aida hat, or insufficient notice of a record attempt, or even failling the currently written exit protocols. So it wont be an Aida record, but I bet we all see David exceed 10 minutes and we will all make our judgements when we look for any LMC. Maybe Kirk could let us know the score.
 
Lots of speculation here- which gets people into trouble, especially with it permanently etched into cyberspace :t
If I was a world-class trainer and someone asked me to train, coach and safety them through any attempt at anything, as a businessman why would I do otherwise? Especially something that may generate a lot more business in an industry that very few make a full-time living at. If I was also a member of a regulating body I could choose whether to show up as a businessman or regulatory judge, or maybe both. Me and my student's choice.

There's no AIDA or other announcement of a record attempt, what's the worry about nothing? I'm sure Blaine is used to people believing he's 'cheating' given the fact that that's part of his job, and will not be bothered by a few freedivers getting in a huff about a non-issue. I don't think he could eat an ice-cream without people questioning the validity that it actually happened, but that's the chosen profession :confused:

I think he is absolutely the best of the best in his field, more entertaing than that Mindfreak dude ( Chris somebody- who is also incredible), and hope he pulls it off no matter how it's done. I like to believe in magic and he certainly pushes the envelope :)
It will not impact my diving in any way, or the amount of dinner I catch, so I'll enjoy the show thanks very much.
Peace,
Erik Y.
 
I agree with Erik. The show will be interesting.

David Blaine is a part of the Hollywood entertainment machine. His PR people probably wouldn't let him do a breath-hold stunt attempt without putting "world-record" on the marquee. So whatever happens, he's succeeded in getting our attention. I don't think that Kirk has or will be able to tell David Blaine's people how to spin this event in the media, whether it annoys AIDA or not. I would imagine that for Kirk it is a risk he is willing to take for the possibilities it will open up for himself and the rest of the PFI team. I'm sure extra cash flow would be very beneficial, especially to help Mandy train full time.

My guess as to why Kirk hasn't responded to the questions on this thread:

1. He's too busy trying to train his star pupil and the many other stars lining up to take the PFI course now after recent exposure (Laird Hamilton and co, for example)

2. He's signed a non-disclosure agreement with David Blaine : )

Let's sit back and enjoy the show.

Pete
 
One more thing (as Devil's advocate):

What would you all think if David Blaine some how pulled off the 9'00 during the event and it was legit (even though that may be impossible to verify)?

Yes, Will's point about the Olympics would apply. Not a world record as defined by AIDA, the leading governing body.
Yes, David Blaine and company would claim it as a world record.
Doubtful, that Kirk or Team PFI would even need to make a statement about "officiality" of the record. They are just the trainers, not the organzers, or the judges.

What will be most interesting to me is the lead up to the event. How will David Blaine explain the context of the attempt?

-Trained rigorously with Kirk for months like an athlete?
-Realized after training with Kirk for months like an athlete that an out-of-body/QiGong/Yogi technique is the only way to do it?
-Realized that after training with Kirk for months like an athlete that illusion is the way to go
-O2 :(
 
efattah said:
The longest breath hold with a huge audience and huge pressure is Stephane Mifsud's 8'28" done in Monaco, which had about 1,000 spectators including the Prince of Monaco, plus hundreds more spectators live on the internet through the live online feed.
Well, there was also Tom's 15' static record with oxygen, that was transmitted live on TF1 (French first state TV channel). In many aspects, this is very well comparable to Blaine's attempt.

I agree that the 7 days underwater stay is already quite a respectable performance. I wonder how it is backed technically. I see not only the problems with skin, but also with the thermo-regulation, sleeping, eating, the evacuation of excrements, ... and all that under the watch of millions of spectators :D
 
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Keep in mind that Sam Still used 10-day fasts to reach 9'55" in static (in training), and he repeated that same method to hit 9'18" at the Swiss worlds in the training day and two 8'15"+ statics on competition day.

David Blaine has fasted for 44 days, and he is aware of Sam Still's fasting method. Keep in mind that Sam Still was doing 6'30" to 7'00" prior to experimenting with fasting.

For the ice-block stunt, David Blaine fasted for 4 days prior to empty his digestive tract and remove the need to go to the bathroom. I'd suspect he will do the same in the aquarium stunt, meaning that he will probably go 4 days without food prior, and then the full 7 days in the aquarium still without food -- totalling 11 days. Perhaps Kirk & company will feed him an electrolyte drink to keep him hydrated, and cover his skin with massage oil to prevent skin issues.

Anything is possible after that long without food.
 
Think about it, Living on scuba for 7 days would be a record in itself; perpetual respiratory dehydration, stewing in your own piss for 7 days, ears continually wet, taking a dump under water (thats always fun ), eating and drinking odd foods, a high nitrogen loading (depending on dive profile), the likelyhood of sinus inflamation, not to mention needing a shave !!

Good luck to the guy, its not as if were comparing apples with apples........
 
Cornholio said:
A quick google suggests that the record for a scuba dive is about nine days (http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i051226.html). The things some people will do...
Thanks! Interesting information. It also explains a lot of more details - for example the guy used a helmet, that probably prevents flooding of the ears and sinuses, which is already quite important. Also the separate 'bathroom' within the tank is interesting and rather important to avoid the tank contamination.

BTW, I wonder if Blaine will have right for girlfriend visits :eek:
 
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efattah said:
Keep in mind that Sam Still used 10-day fasts to reach 9'55" in static (in training), and he repeated that same method to hit 9'18" at the Swiss worlds in the training day and two 8'15"+ statics on competition day.

Anything is possible after that long without food.

Eric,

I wasn't aware of the effect of multi-day fasts on statics. Is this a technique Tom S uses ? Have you ever used it ?
 
I wonder which 'body' has most authority in judging a world record. Guiness or Aida? Is Aida likely to become impotent if David claims a world record and the record gets published by Guiness.
 
It would be a bit of a coup for AIDA if they do certify the event - I understand there is still some competition regarding who the authority is and, odd though it seems - this would get AIDA in front of the public.
The fasting bit is interesting. As a practical matter I'd think it would be conducive to hypothermia - but theres an interesting interface there as Eric mentioned. It's almost as if after awhile without gross food the body becomes more directly under control.
 
Fasting has the efect of lowering the metabolism, that means the body uses less oxygen. Eric also calculated that lowering your body temperature will have a great efect on ones metabolism. As we have seen from his stunts he is able of both and he should have the will power to push to the limit. Combining everything? I'm sure Eric already calculated the possibilites :t .

And Tom doesn't use fasting for his static atempts. At least not yet. :)
 
A few more ways living in an aquarium might help enhance performance:

The aquarium water can be regulated to:
Be isotonic/iso-osmotic (less traumatic to tissues maybe?).
To have temperature/temperature profile which is ideal for static/fasting and David's body can get accustomed to after a few days (continuous mild hypothermia).
Maybe the water can even be superoxyginated and raise David's total O2 tissue stores by diffusion. His skin's permeability might change after 7 days in water.
 
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