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Pelengas Pneumovacuum speargun

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popgun pete

popgun pete

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This is a photo of a "Miron" from Hanter's article. The gun was supplied with two spears and screw on speartips.
Miron pneumatic speargun.jpg

I mention the "Miron" as it looked set to be a floating mid-handle pneumatic speargun (40 mm tank tube) back in the early years after 2000 when there were no others anywhere except for a handful of second tier guns such as the Tigullio models. Everywhere there were rear handle floating guns based on the "Sten". This "Miron" gun could have beaten the floating "Pelengas" guns into production by more than a decade. The "only" problem was the brass inner barrel made the gun very heavy and that torpedoed any chance of it being a floater after the shot.
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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This is the gun's handbook for operating.
2009-08-21 16:25:01

Miron hunting rifle
1573794836654.png

The loading force of the gun in the initial and final stages is the same, which distinguishes our gun from analogues. The trigger pull is independent of the air pressure inside the gun and is constant.

A convenient fuse does not interfere with shooting and is easy to use.

A rubber shock absorber and hydraulic brake are mounted in the muzzle part, which makes it possible to use the gun in harsh conditions.

The handle is made of high-strength plastic by injection molding, and is coated with rubber on top. This means that it is not subject to wear and corrosion.

The gun is coated with powder enamel, which is poorly scratched and absolutely not subject to corrosion.

The tench is attached to the harpoon by means of a sliding sleeve, which improves the accuracy of the battle compared to the front rigid mount.

Any imported nozzle can be attached to the harpoon, as the thread is cut according to their standards.

The color of each model can be individual.

MIRON 'S PNEUMATIC SAVING Rifle is intended for spearfishing of large fish in the seas, rivers and lakes.

WARNING

In order to avoid breakdowns, it is forbidden to discharge a shotgun in the air or in any object in the air.

EQUIPMENT
1573794930753.png

1. Shotgun - 1 pc.

2. Pump - 1 pc.

3. Harpoon - 2pcs.

4. Harpoon tip - 2 pcs.

5. Rear harpoon tip - 2 pcs.

6. The sliding sleeve on the harpoon - 2 pcs.

7. Case - 1 pc. ... >>>

Additionally, a spare set of rubber gaskets may be included.

SPECIFICATIONS

ModelRange of the harpoon under waterEffective distance to the targetGun lengthHarpoon length with tipCharging Force
Miron-4004 m2-3m0.4 m0.415 m20-25 kg
Miron 5205 m4 m0.52 m.0.67 m.20-25 kg
Miron-6707 m5 m0.67 m.0.72 m.20-25 kg
Miron-8208 m6 m0.82 m.0.95 m.20-25 kg
Miron 100010 m8 m1m.1.15 m.20-25 kg
CONSTRUCTION GUN



The diagram shows the main components of the gun .

1. Nipple;

2. The cap of the nipple;

3. nipple valve;

4. Spring

5. Screw M10;

6. The whisper;

7. The piston;

8. thrust;

9. Spring;

10. Adjusting screw M6;

11. Trigger;

12. Rubber seals;

13. fuse;

14. The cap of the receiver;

15. The tip;

16. Fixing nut;

17. The sleeve of the hydraulic brake;

18. Rubber shock absorber

Principle of operation:

The energy of the compressed air is transferred to the piston, which pushes the harpoon. Harpoon hook - rear.

Material of which the gun is made :

Receiver with a diameter of 40 mm. and some other details - aluminum alloy D16T, anodized and coated with durable powder enamel.

The barrel is made of corrosion-resistant brass of the LAMSH brand (this alloy is used in desalination installations on ships in salt water intake devices), internal diameter 13 mm. The barrel is calibrated and ground. Grinding is carried out in accordance with GOST. The quality of grinding is similar to that achieved in the trunks of smoothbore guns .

The piston is made of stainless steel.

Harpoon and harpoon tip - stainless steel with an admixture of titanium.

Technical features:

A rubber shock absorber and hydraulic brake are mounted in the muzzle part, which makes it possible to use the gun in harsh conditions.

The loading force of the gun in the initial and final stages is the same, which distinguishes our gun from analogues.

The trigger pull is independent of the air pressure inside the gun and is constant.

A convenient fuse does not interfere with shooting and is easy to use.
miron520.jpg
 
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tromic

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Seems to be some problem with Pelegas line slide... Maybe hydro damping had not worked well or something other... I don't understand.
I know from my experience that hydro damper to work properly matching parts (shaft, slider, cone) must be made very precisely according to previous calculation using equations for energy balans.

 
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Diving Gecko

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I haven't had a single one of my UBL sliders jam (and for sure never cracked) when used with UBL corresponding tail ends. And that's using heavy 8mm, 145cm long spears shot at up to 32bar (13mm piston) so I guess quite a lot of energy on impact. Also, I think UBL-Dima's sliders are quite a bit thinner than Pelengas'. I wonder if the Pelengas ones are cast and not machined...?
 
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Zahar

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I haven't had a single one of my UBL sliders jam (and for sure never cracked) when used with Dima's corresponding tail ends. And that's using heavy 8mm, 145cm long spears shot at up to 32bar (13mm piston) so I guess quite a lot of energy on impact. Also, I think Dima's sliders are quite a bit thinner than Pelengas'. I wonder if the Pelengas ones are cast and not machined...?
The smaller the diameter of the harpoon and its mass, the greater the speed of the harpoon at the moment of collision with the slider! More speed - more impact energy! Dima Chunyukin is a very mediocre designer, but an ambitious seller!
 

tromic

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When I look at the previous video at 10:44 it seems to me that the conus tail end does not fit into the slider...? It is quite strange.. In that case the is no hydro damping.

It must be as an the video:

Here is a video of how titanium slider can be made by milling:
 
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Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
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The smaller the diameter of the harpoon and its mass, the greater the speed of the harpoon at the moment of collision with the slider! More speed - more impact energy!
As for the mass, speed and energy, I have also shot Dima's sliders and tail ends on 7mm, 950mm long shafts at +30bar (13mm pistion). So, is that enough energy for you? My point was that Tomi is right, you need to have the tolerances correct for hydro braking to work and also, I speculated that Dima (and others) possibly use better materials to start with? I know plenty of other Ukranian builders know how to make a good slider but I have only used UBLs and that's why I mentioned those.

Dima Chunyukin is a very mediocre designer, but an ambitious seller!
I don't know who Dima Chunyukin is, but if you mean Dimitry from UBL (whose last name is not Chunyukin, as far as I know) then I find Dima to be the exact opposite; a great builder with less business clout than his maker skills deserve. I have met him in person, I have corresponded widely with him and bought perfect parts from him and I can absolutely assure you that he has never talked to me about anyone else in the industry like you just did. Unlike you, my impression is that Dima respects other builders so perhaps, you can take your snide attacks elsewhere. Deeperblue is too good a forum for this kind of talk.
Now, you obviously have a great deal of knowledge about "Eastern guns" so, it's nice to have you here. But please stop belittling others.

(I know I have talked crap about a few specific parts from huge manufacturers like Mares, but that's very far from a personal attack)
 
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Zahar

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As for the mass, speed and energy, I have also shot Dima's sliders and tail ends on 7mm, 950mm long shafts at +30bar (13mm pistion). So, is that enough energy for you? My point was that Tomi is right, you need to have the tolerances correct for hydro braking to work and also, I speculated that Dima (and others) possibly use better materials to start with? I know plenty of other Ukranian builders know how to make a good slider but I have only used UBLs and that's why I mentioned those.



I don't know who Dima Chunyukin is, but if you mean Dimitry from UBL (whose last name is not Chunyukin, as far as I know) then I find Dima to be the exact opposite; a great builder with less business clout than his maker skills deserve. I have met him in person, I have corresponded widely with him and bought perfect parts from him and I can absolutely assure you that he has never talked to me about anyone else in the industry like you just did. Unlike you, my impression is that Dima respects other builders so perhaps, you can take your snide attacks elsewhere. Deeperblue is too good a forum for this kind of talk.
Now, you obviously have a great deal of knowledge about "Eastern guns" so, it's nice to have you here. But please stop belittling others.

(I know I have talked crap about a few specific parts from huge manufacturers like Mares, but that's very far from a personal attack)
Pelengas, there is only Dima Chunyukin! And you were not correct mentioning Dmitry without a surname! I’m familiar with Dima UBL Kharin by his work! Good idea - poor performance! No need to teach me good manners - Teach your wife how to cook soup!
 

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
1,406
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Shanghai
Pelengas, there is only Dima Chunyukin! And you were not correct mentioning Dmitry without a surname! I’m familiar with Dima UBL Kharin by his work! Good idea - poor performance! No need to teach me good manners - Teach your wife how to cook soup!
I think you are saying that the Pelengas boss is Dima Chunyukin? If so, I can see how me mentioning "Dima" can be misunderstood. But I didn't know Pelengas' boss was another Dima. I was referring to UBL-Dima and his parts. I will not comment much on Chunyukin's design or business skills. Suffice to say, they move fast which is sometimes good, sometimes not.

But it seems you think UBL has bad performance, too... If so, I can tell you the sliders, tail ends, muzzle and piston are by far the best I have used. I have broken STC pistons and shock absorbers from STC and Salvimar. Friends of mine has busted Salvi pistons at around 25 bar whereas I have not had a single failure on any UBL parts at +33bar.
On my second UBL order, I even asked Dima to shorten the pistons as much as possible and make them even lighter and even though Dima wouldn't guarantee that we could get away with it, I decided to take the chance and it has worked flawlessly. Also, his sliders are the slimmest sliders I have been able to actually find and order.
I am sure there are other great builders from Ukraine, but I don't know whom of them can communicate in English, take a custom order, have a way of easily taking a payment and feel like sending an order out of the country.
As such, I think Tomba and UBL are the best options for custom or semi-custom parts and these days maybe Tomba as Dima (UBL) has moved to Central America and is still in the process of setting his shop up. Maybe Duccio is good, too - I don't know much of his work.

The main reason I mentioned these sliders is because Tomi and I have been talking a bit about hydro braking in private. And I wanted to go on the record and say that the UBL sliders are even thinner in wall thickness than the Pelengas ones and yet, I have never had an issue with mine - and most likely, I run my guns at higher pressures than the Pelengas users do. I do hope this was perhaps just a small, bad batch of sliders from Pelengas because, as said, if you design it right, they wont break.
(Tomi, by the way, is another builder/designer who shows respect for other peoples work and even when he disagrees, or critizises he does so in a respectful and productive way).

As for whose kitchen we are in and what the soup tastes like - we are in a house where the rules have more or less been established by long time users (and great moderators) and Deeperblue just so happens to be a place where we do our best to refrain from personal attacks. And this is one of the best things about it.

But I think I am done spending any more energy on this. But of course, I wanted to defend my views which are those of someone who has actually used UBL parts in real life.
 
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tromic

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Aug 13, 2007
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Pelengas, there is only Dima Chunyukin! And you were not correct mentioning Dmitry without a surname! I’m familiar with Dima UBL Kharin by his work! Good idea - poor performance! No need to teach me good manners - Teach your wife how to cook soup!
Pelengas, is it Russian or Ukrainian product..? I have a feeling that you, Zahar, don't like it very much..?
When I saw their titanium line slider for the first time I was sceptical about its hydro damping possibilities if used with some general shaft, other then it was designed to. I supposed it might work well only with original Pelengas shaft having polyurethane damper next to the tail end...
If this slider on the video above, was used as part of the original complet of the speargun I am really disappointed..
Can you show as a picture of one of yours spearguns you designed and made it, you are very proud off?
Maybe I've already seen it...on Ukrainian forum. Can not recall. I am sure others on this forum haven't seen it yet.
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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The early Pelengas stainless steel sliders look like they are cast and then machined, the later ones are smoother externally as are the titanium versions. If there is a burr on the spear tail it can jam the line slide, especially if the spear has been struck by something hard (a metal edge) in storage or transport.
Pelengas line slides.jpg

Early slider is on the right, look at the surface texture magnified by the water droplet. The centre line slide is titanium.
Grit in the line slide/slider can cause a jam if the spear has previously flopped to the bottom, so best to slide it up and down to get any grit out. For this reason don't use grease on the slider.
 
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Zahar

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I think you are saying that the Pelengas boss is Dima Chunyukin? If so, I can see how me mentioning "Dima" can be misunderstood. But I didn't know Pelengas' boss was another Dima. I was referring to UBL-Dima and his parts. I will not comment much on Chunyukin's design or business skills. Suffice to say, they move fast which is sometimes good, sometimes not.

But it seems you think UBL has bad performance, too... If so, I can tell you the sliders, tail ends, muzzle and piston are by far the best I have used. I have broken STC pistons and shock absorbers from STC and Salvimar. Friends of mine has busted Salvi pistons at around 25 bar whereas I have not had a single failure on any UBL parts at +33bar.
On my second UBL order, I even asked Dima to shorten the pistons as much as possible and make them even lighter and even though Dima wouldn't guarantee that we could get away with it, I decided to take the chance and it has worked flawlessly. Also, his sliders are the slimmest sliders I have been able to actually find and order.
I am sure there are other great builders from Ukraine, but I don't know whom of them can communicate in English, take a custom order, have a way of easily taking a payment and feel like sending an order out of the country.
As such, I think Tomba and UBL are the best options for custom or semi-custom parts and these days maybe Tomba as Dima (UBL) has moved to Central America and is still in the process of setting his shop up. Maybe Duccio is good, too - I don't know much of his work.

The main reason I mentioned these sliders is because Tomi and I have been talking a bit about hydro braking in private. And I wanted to go on the record and say that the UBL sliders are even thinner in wall thickness than the Pelengas ones and yet, I have never had an issue with mine - and most likely, I run my guns at higher pressures than the Pelengas users do. I do hope this was perhaps just a small, bad batch of sliders from Pelengas because, as said, if you design it right, they wont break.
(Tomi, by the way, is another builder/designer who shows respect for other peoples work and even when he disagrees, or critizises he does so in a respectful and productive way).

As for whose kitchen we are in and what the soup tastes like - we are in a house where the rules have more or less been established by long time users (and great moderators) and Deeperblue just so happens to be a place where we do our best to refrain from personal attacks. And this is one of the best things about it.

But I think I am done spending any more energy on this. But of course, I wanted to defend my views which are those of someone who has actually used UBL parts in real life.
Dima UBL began his activities in Ukraine and then left! I repair guns after its alterations! If you have no problems with Him, then His attitude to the quality of work has become better! I am not going to discuss other qualities of Designers, except for professional ones! By this I will not violate the Rules of the Great Moderators! I will not crawl on any forum! Don't like it Really? Do not chat with me! Meet the Great Moderators and I will leave your Forum Forever! I didn’t come to learn from you, but to share Knowledge and Experience!
 

Zahar

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Pelengas, is it Russian or Ukrainian product..? I have a feeling that you, Zahar, don't like it very much..?
When I saw their titanium line slider for the first time I was sceptical about its hydro damping possibilities if used with some general shaft, other then it was designed to. I supposed it might work well only with original Pelengas shaft having polyurethane damper next to the tail end...
If this slider on the video above, was used as part of the original complet of the speargun I am really disappointed..
Can you show as a picture of one of yours spearguns you designed and made it, you are very proud off?
Maybe I've already seen it...on Ukrainian forum. Can not recall. I am sure others on this forum haven't seen it yet.
Pelengas - Ukrainian Manufacturer! Belengas was started thanks to the Forum http://podvoh.net/forum/recent.html where I am the moderator of the Workshop! I am offended to see some technical solutions of Pelengas not in favor of the Ukrainian Image of Gun Masters for Spearfishing! I make sliders according to the scheme of Sergey Ermolenko ESK and shanks of the harpoon according to the scheme of Alexey Zaslavets Tarpon with a sandwich from a red-hot washer and polyurethane!
20171022_141457_HDR.jpg
 

Diving Gecko

shooter & shooter
Jun 24, 2008
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Dima UBL began his activities in Ukraine and then left! I repair guns after its alterations! If you have no problems with Him, then His attitude to the quality of work has become better! I am not going to discuss other qualities of Designers, except for professional ones! By this I will not violate the Rules of the Great Moderators! I will not crawl on any forum! Don't like it Really? Do not chat with me! Meet the Great Moderators and I will leave your Forum Forever! I didn’t come to learn from you, but to share Knowledge and Experience!
It's not about moderators, it's about respect.
Pelengas is a big company and they seem to have enough money so it wont really hurt them if a few guys don't like them. But if you talk crap about a small home shop - a one man operation, be it Tomba, UBL, Duccio, etc - without backing it up, you risk hurting their livelihood badly (I know Tomba is not making their money on this, it was just an example). I am all for sharing knowledge and I don't hold back when I criticize aspects of a design I don't like. But I don't make general statements like "bad performance" without backing up such potentially damaging claims. You talk in very general and vague terms - I talk in specifics about specific parts. As for who repairs which guns, I think you all repair each others guns from time to time.
You are entitled to your opinion and so am I and now, both are on the record so let's move on. This is a Pelengas thread after all.
 

tromic

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Pelengas - Ukrainian Manufacturer! Belengas was started thanks to the Forum http://podvoh.net/forum/recent.html where I am the moderator of the Workshop! I am offended to see some technical solutions of Pelengas not in favor of the Ukrainian Image of Gun Masters for Spearfishing! I make sliders according to the scheme of Sergey Ermolenko ESK and shanks of the harpoon according to the scheme of Alexey Zaslavets Tarpon with a sandwich from a red-hot washer and polyurethane!
View attachment 55202
Yes, I already saw this slider and the "sandwich". I suppose you produced more of them and they were proved to be good.
The "sandwich" might be a solution for too heavy metal slider or wrong designed hydro-damper slider.. The "Red hot washer" has smaller OD then the regular tail end, which is usually 1 mm more than the shaft, and might be a solution for not damaging the vacuum cuff or even the "movable o-ring" (Davide?).
 
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popgun pete

popgun pete

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The sliders take the largest impact when the spear tail drives them from the muzzle as the sliders go from zero to maximum velocity in a fraction of a second. High power hydropneumatic guns using 100 bar and more can distort the slider body if it is too heavy and damage it, this is why such powerful guns use light metal sliders and stop rings, but even they have a short life as the stop rings eventually expand and jam on the shaft tail requiring them to be freed with a sliding hammer. These guns can easily send a shaft flying past 6 meters in a dead straight line, shooting fish with them is like shooting fish in a barrel as you rarely miss. Just as well as reloading is slow.
 

tromic

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2007
1,615
180
153
Croatia
Seems to be some problem with Pelegas line slide... Maybe hydro damping had not worked well or something other... I don't understand.
I know from my experience that hydro damper to work properly matching parts (shaft, slider, cone) must be made very precisely according to previous calculation using equations for energy balans.

I was looking at the video again. I could not see any evidence that this Pelengas sliders had hydro-damping possibilities.
It seems that the inner diameter is same all the length of the slider... There is no any step inside..
This slider would maybe work with Zahar`s "sandwich": washer + PU tail end...

1574238349831.png
 
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Zahar

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To reduce the impact energy of the harpoon and the slider, it is necessary to give the slider initial acceleration before being hit by the harpoon! This is ensured by the persistent contact of the slider with the shock absorbing sleeve of the piston!
Присоединяющаяся резинка-амортизатор456 - копия.jpg
 

tromic

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Aug 13, 2007
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To reduce the impact energy of the harpoon and the slider, it is necessary to give the slider initial acceleration before being hit by the harpoon! This is ensured by the persistent contact of the slider with the shock absorbing sleeve of the piston!
View attachment 55204
I would rather use shock absorber on the shaft, PU tubing, like in one of previous Tomba designs:
1574282792397.png
 
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Zahar

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Preferences - Manufacturer Selection! The problem of the sliders must be addressed in combination with the operating conditions of the guns! For impact sliders, free landings of 0.3-0.4mm are needed, for sliders with a hydraulic shock absorber, 0.2mm sliding landings are needed! If everything is done correctly and automatic harpoon line reset is applied, there will be no problems with the sliders!

In Your Option, the Tromic will have a slider accelerated by a water hammer if there is enough water in the muzzle! To do this, it is necessary to provide a volume - a water dispenser in the muzzle when charging! This small amount of water will wet the trunk and knock out the slider
 
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