Picasso Cent Pacific or RA or Rabitech..

Calispearo!I don't now anything about the picasso safetys but one thing you should remember is to never rely on a guns safety to keep you from firing it.A guns safety could fail and you don't want to take a chance with that.I decided to try building a gun and even though I have little free time I think it will be worth it .I 'm going to wait till it's 100% complete before posting some pics.

Murat! I must clarify what I said .The totemsubs and Daperian guns are much better than your average euro but RA and Rabis' are not average .They put some features in them that set them apart from the rest like full length rails, better trigger mechs and the ability to use bulk rubber circular bands.I think larger guns should have full rails to support the shaft even if the bands are in plane with the shaft,and when adding more power.I did't mean to lower your equipment down to others standards.
Calispearo! To cover your bases you will probaly need more than one gun why don't you find some one with a gun you like and see if they will let you give it a test drive.

Hi Calispearo,
the European wooden guns have their rails incorporated in the wooden barrel. You can check the totemsub.it or the gimansub.it websites for more info...These are the best looking guns IMHO. You can also find a lot of info on this type of guns by just typing totemsub or giman in the search field of the deeperblue forums.
Cheers!

ajwaverider,

what makes a gun special is not full length rail. Full length rail is very easy to do or add on later. Hovewer in my experiments guns with a full length rail shoot no more accurate than "no rail" guns.

What makes a euro gun special is its body shape, balance, and design details...of course to get the potential youy have to use good combination of shaft, bands and trigger...

Does anyone use both of these ?:

1 -- totemsub / dapiran type wooden gun (rail - single 20mm-ish band - 6.5mm shaft)
2 -- rabi / RA type gun (rail - single band etc)

Just very curious !

I know that this is unlikely due to geo. distrib. but was wondering if someone like Miles has both ? There is some dude out somewhere around the middle east who uses a wooden totem tahiti from memory - do you use RAs's/Rabi's too ?

There is no argument where wooden guns are concerned - in my opinion whether it is ali or wood makes little difference - the overall design is key.

You get good/poor ali guns and good/poor wooden guns (I would imagine - I am still a beginner so have not tried many guns....)

Ed

Miles is die hard Rabi fan but even he realised that well designed C4 is superior to the Rabittech, even it has no RAIL. I am sure if he tries italian made quality wooden guns he will impressed more...

(Anyway - I like shooting small fish The only thing I've seen around here which was 83 llbs was a windsurfer that got too close [yes, off topic I know but hey.... ])

Murat ! I tried to find the post from Mark from omer but could not locate it. Anyway he basically says that putting rails on guns that were desighned to not need one will not be benificial and can even hender accuracy.So if the guns you put rails on did not come with one that's the reason they did not shoot any better.If all it takes is balance and body shape to make a gun speacial why are so many euro speargun makers building guns with rails now?I'm no engineer but here's somthing you can try
take one of your wooden guns with a rail and fill it up with epoxy then take it out and see how many fish you can bag with it .And I don't think shooting a large fish from
say,15 feet + takes less skill or a lower type of gun than shooting a small fish from 8 feet away . And don't take it the wrong way by thinking i'm saying that shooting large fish takes any more or less skill than shooting small fish cause it's all relative.
I think I remember you being so uptight .You need to take a brake from your studys man a get in the water

Here is my list: Rabitech, C4, Rob Allen. Wooden guns, make it yourself.
I own Riffes, Wongs, and all the guns after that. Big mistake. 18 guns total. I own a house in Florida and one in California. That is the best way to do it. I welcome anyone who wants to...to come on my boat and try out my guns. Murat, Italian guns are light but not as well constructed as other guns(with exception of the C4 but it's tagged with the astronomical price). Sorry to say. Own them. The Gab lacks penetration power.

Wood guns like Riffes are not good for the following reason: high price and not ideal for the freediver.

Wong does offer a lifetime warranty, however his guns are incomplete, with scuffs and scratches and parts of wood that are unfinished. If you want a wood gun and are looking for aesthetics, go Scott Merlo. Kitto and Mori as well.

Do you notice that 99% of all the competition divers use EUROGUNS? Nobody uses Riffe (except julie) or Wong (except for Daryl Wong, the girls (sheri, brandi). Simple reason for this: the best use the best. The big wood guns are not maneuverable and unless you're shooting 200lb tuna, you probably don't need a big wooden gun.

Actually...Mullins took his 300lb World record marlin with a 6.5mm spear and a single 20mm band. Even he says Riffe shoots low as he used his buddies Riffe for a second shot. Cameron Kirkconnell took his 200lb YFT with a railgun and a 7.9mm spear.

-Eugene T.

ajwaverider,

Mass producers does not make such guns coz its not economical....

spearingfish,

lack of penetration???

So you compare the penetration of gun with 4-6 16mm bands and 10mm spear to single band 6.5mm spear???

There is not such thing "luck of penetration", it may be lack of penetration for specific purpose...

Calispearo,

I live in San Diego so I dive in pretty much the same waters as you. You might also want to take a look at the Aimrite railguns at www.wongspearguns.com. I have the 110cm as well as a Wong Mahi. For me, these two are all the guns I'll need for Southern California. Actually, the 110cm will do most of the time except the really big WSB. For the really big WSB I feel more comfortable with a multiband wooden gun. Maybe I'm just not as good of a hunter/diver.

I've owned a Picasso and used a friends RA 110 extensively. No complaints and both were very accurate. I was planning on getting a 110 RA because I liked my friend's gun so much but then I learned about Wong/Aimrite's new aluminum railguns. Here are the features on the Aimrite railguns that sold me: same trigger mechanism used as in his bluewater guns (will hold 600-800lbs), comes with hardened SS sharkfin tab shaft, two 5/8" bands, and a lifetime warranty.

Spearingfish,

I'm surprised that your Wong gun (or was it your friend's) came "unfinished". From all the Wong guns and pictures of Wong guns I've seen, they've all be carefully crafted. I know Daryl and Rick and I find it hard to believe that they'd send out a product that was not "finished".

I too find it hard to believe that Daryl Wong would turn out a substandard gun and if that was the case I think your beef should have been with him in private, not openly here. If you have read some of the replies to your posts, you would have noticed that infact other people here actually like useing these guns and find that for them on a particular day, there is no better gun. I feel a person who has actually eighteen guns should have the experience to know this without publicly putting Mr Wong or Mr Riffe's products down at every opportunity unquantified. If you wish to continue this conversation any further, then please do so by PM!

Spearingfish said:

the best use the best. The big wood guns are not maneuverable and unless you're shooting 200lb tuna, you probably don't need a big wooden gun.
-Eugene T.

Click to expand...

I also think that the best knows what gun to use in a given circumstance.
There is a variety of prey in the seas and they all need the appropriate gun to land them.
From my experience the vast majority of fish can be taken by a good euro gun (standard, carbon-fiber or wooden) set-up with the right cofiguration of bands and shaft.
However there also some kind of large pelagics that although they can be landed with the euro guns mentioned above the proper way to hunt them is with those bulky (for my Med spearo eyes!) but massively strong american guns, which their makers built them, having those huge tunas in mind and dreams!
In my eyes though, landind that massive Marlin with single 20mm bands and a 6.5mm spear takes a lot more guts, skill and maybe luck than doing the same with a x-band, 150cm wooden gun.

I agree, there is no single tool for the job. Buying a speargun is like buying a car. Price, aesthetics, durability, the company, and various other factors come into play. Needless to say, choosing one takes a lot of deliberation, equivocation, and nights up late thinking "which one to get??"
100 or 120cm? 50" or 55"? With wings, with double rubber, single rubber, quadruple rubber? The list goes on!!

Some may say that comparing wood and euro spearguns is like comparing trucks with cars. Both have their purposes and both are certainly capable of landing trophy fish. If there were a panacea then surely it wouldn't be such a hotly debated topic.

Let's realize we're all in the sport together, and that spearfishing is interesting in the respect that if I were to go to Florida or Massachusetts or even Greece and I had made friends with someone through the spearboard/deeperblue forums, we would probably get together, shoot some fish, have some drinks and have a good time. You can't do that with all sports!!

I love spearfishing,

Erik Sun
Sumora Dive Tools

Yes that is a good point, I was contacted by a guy on another list about his visit to Ireland and I was able to meet him and show him a great dive.
He enjoyed it and so did I and the same goes for anyone who comes over here.
Huan

Hello gentlemen.

Spinal it is hard to keep track of all the posts but I was very surprised that my hybrid was unfinished as I have seen Wongs other guns and have purchased some secondhand and they are well crafted. There are few builders out there with the exception of Merlo and aussies that I know who put in the time with each individual. His lifetime warranty policy is another nice bonus. That being said, the hybrid much to my disappointment was my least favorite. I know that Billy Mac is your friend, but castigation of people and doing the things he does on the freedive list not to mention the political "debates" shall we call them are inappropriate and have changed the manner of the board and the general demeanor of many. I have followed spearboard since its conception and poor comments have indeed given our sport a turn for the worse.
My apologies for adding to it by my inappropriate comments that surely added fuel to the fire. As mentioned on the other post, we have a special sport and I will do my best to encourage it, as I have always invited people, whether they be from florida, california, washington, etc to come on my boat, pool test guns, and try new riggings.

My offers still stand and once again apologies for my malignant attitude.

Spearingfish, thanks for the reply.

Hmm, if you don't mind me asking, what was unfinished about it? Was the wood stock not sanded, coated, or were there splinters? Was there still bark left on the stock? I'm a sure a call or an email to Daryl explaining the guns deficiencies and he would have asked you to send it back for "finishing".

I know of only one other guy in Florida that has repeatedly claimed his hybrid missed most of the fish he's ever attempted to shoot, and he's taken it out many hundreds of times. Instead of contacting Daryl to explain his situation, he goes on the internet and badmouths the gun (a gift from his father) without giving any detail as to why the gun is failing him. Rick Bettua (Daryl's partner) even offered to buy the gun back from him at full price. At least two people (including myself) have offered to trade him any new Rabitech for it. What I don't understand about that guy and to a lesser extent you is...why don't you call Daryl on his lifetime warranty? If you're that unsatisfied with it, tell him about it (or don't) and demand he fix it. That's the beauty of a lifetime warranty.

Or demand to return it and ask for a full refund. You can also sell it here or the FDL. Have you seen how many people post Want to Buy (WTB) Wong guns? His is the only guns that I know of on the secondary market where there are more offers to buy than sell. You can certainly sell it for a very little loss. That's how I bought my Mahi from Kurt Bickel.

Re: Bill,

I don't think I've ever read a post of his where he comes out and castigates anyone unprovoked. I know there are some who think he's too prevalent of a poster and some may think he is too verbose. Others just don't like him because of his political persuasions. Maybe youv'e read more of his posts than I, but I can only think of one instance where he "castigates" another poster on Spearboard. That was telling Sask that he should just tell everyone the story of a boat sinking instead of teasing everyone. I think most people on that post agreed with Bill.

On the FDL he got too political and they banned him. A bunch of it's members called for lifting of the ban which Rocky did. When Bill came back on the list he explained what had happened and that the punishment was warranted. If you're on the FDL, you could do what another member did and block all emails from Bill.

On Spearboard he's been accused of pushing Wong guns. I agree that he does post alot about them but if you look at the context of his posts then you'll see that he's responding to someone asking about guns or how to set up a gun. He's never come out of the blue and start a thread on how great Wong guns are, or how someone could buy one. It's always been an answer to someone's question. There are a lot of newbies on these internet boards and some of them are so green, they don't know what they don't know. Many of them are too lazy to search the archives for their answers. I'm sure the internet (between FDL, Spearboard, and Deeperblue) has the answers to any question these newbies can even conceive. Well each time these lazy newbies ask the same question, Bill takes the time to answer each and many times with pictures. His answers just happen to be the same because many of the same questions are asked over and over. Bill is probably the only guy with the patience and inclination to answer each same question.

You might be wondering why I'm such a big fan of Bill's. When I moved to SoCal he was one of the guys from the FDL that answered all my questions about diving and spearing here. He also sent me pictures of how he rigged his guns as well as why. He even invited me to dive with him on his boat. Contrast that to another guy from Florida who told me to tie a cinderblock to my foot when I asked about diving deeper and longer eight years ago.

Now back to the subject of the thread. I disagree that wooden multiband guns are only good for tuna over 80kgs, or that they are cumbersome to dive with. Yes some have landed YFT up to 200lbs with euro/railguns but you never hear about all the fish they lost due to poor penetration because the fish is too far away or fish was just was too thick for the shaft to go all the way through. I shot at a WSB (estimated weight 70lbs) with a 100cm picasso from about 12' away and all I got were some scales. I have a buddy that loves his RA and although he's landed some really nice fish, he's also lost dozens of really nice fish (witnessed and by his own admission). He's also lost two guns due to not enough line on his reels. I have too much respect for my quarry to just mortally injure it. That being said, I hunt 60-70% of the time with a 110cm Aimrite Railgun.

Well, my daughter is waking up so I'll end it here.

Nate

P.S you wanna get rid of that dirty ol' hybrid? I'll save you the trip to the garbage can and come over to pick it up.