Pump threads and shaft compatibility between different brands.

[stefpix]

Hi I have been doing a search but I could not come up with reliable results.

I have a Salvimar Predathor 65, I am happy with.

I was looking for a slightly shorter speargun for low visibility and for travel, so it can fit in a smaller bag.

I was looking at the Mares Jet 58.

I have the Salvimar manometer, which I find it handy.
What is the compatibility between pump threads and shafts between Salvimar Predathor, Seac Asso, Cressi and Mares?
I live in the USA (NY), so parts are not as readily available as in Europe.
So knowing if shafts, manometer gauge and pumps can be used on different brands, if i do not find the specific one.
Is Seac Asso = Mares Sten?
I also am considering the Salvimar Predathor Vuoto 55. But I am worried that the thinner shaft may bend too easily around rocks/jetties. Although a lighter shaft can be good with a shorter gun.

I am happy with the power and accuracy of my Salvimar Predathor 65, I got some large striped bass, and shaft went all the ay through. But sometimes here the visibility is so bad that i would not mind a shorter gun. Also the 65 is a few inches/cm too long for my regular travel bag.

Thank you!

 

[popgun pete]

Salvimar and Mares use the same shaft tails, but they have different hand pump noses. You get a pump with a new gun, so no problem there. Besides the connection threads on the pump nose there are also different sealing methods used as some use "O" rings or rubber washers either on the pump or in the gun itself and that affects the design of the pump. The Seac-Sub Asso looks like an old Sten, but has different spear tails and pump connection.

The Mares Jet 58 cm is the same gun as the Competition Line Miniministen and is a good gun as I have one myself.

 

[stefpix]

Thank you Pete. I did a search but I could come up. It would be great to have a sticky post with all this basic info.

Are you based in the USA? I was looking for a spare Vuoto Seal Kit for the Salvimar Predathor Vuoto, but I can not find it anywhere on US sites. Some EU site do not ship Salvimar products to the USA. Edosub.it may charge too much for shipping.

Since I ordered the Predathor Vuoto 55 as a travel alternative than my Predathor 65 (wet muzzle) or for low vis jetty dives, I am wondering If I should have instead ordered the standard Predathor 55 or a Mares Jet 58.
I thought in the Vuoto the lighter shaft would compensate for the shorter length,
I wonder if you have any tips regarding sourcing the seal kits, how long do they last.
Also if there is a performance advantage with the dry muzzle on a 55 cm, or would have beem better off just going for the Mares Jet 58 or Salvimar Predathor standard 55 (any opinion in differences between the 2?)
Thank you!
Stefano

 

[popgun pete]

For low visibility short range shooting a thicker shaft is preferable as it gives a stronger hit to the fish thanks to its greater moving mass, however a 7 mm will do. Short shafts are less likely to bend as their length offers not much leverage for them to be bent, unlike long shafts. As for the sealing cuffs search on the Web and you can compare suppliers as well as looking at eBay. Many dive stores use eBay to market their products using the buy-it-now option. When buying seals it is best to buy multiples and the more of other items that you can also order in the one parcel lowers your shipping costs.

Wet barrel guns work OK despite the current fad for vacuum or dry barrel guns, short range shooting you have all the speed and power you need out of the 13 mm inner barrel diameter guns. I have a vacuum barrel Taimen 600 which shoots a 7 mm shaft, it uses the vacuum system to obtain the most from its modest proportions which are designed to move the gun around in weedy areas. In the same area I have used either the Miniministen or the Taimen with equal results.

Divestock are good to deal with and ship stuff that others will not: https://www.divestock.com/spearfishing/spearguns/pneumatic-guns/shopby/salvimar.

Salvimar VUOTO vacuum muzzle for Cyrano 3pz

www.divestock.com

 

[stefpix]

Thank you.
I did look on eBay and many stores but the seals seem hard to come by.

I wrote Salvimar.
I imagined that if I traveled to Mexico the dry muzzle would give me some more reach than wet muzzle.

I know the 8mm shafts are harder to bend. But I heard anyway that Mares shafts work with Salvimar spearguns.

But maybe wet barrel is more reliable, less of a headache in maintenance.

Between the Mares Jet 55 and the Salvimar Predator 55 is there any significant difference?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[popgun pete]

Dry or vacuum barrel guns need a clean nick free shaft so that the vacuum seal does not get damaged. If you cut your fish off the shaft when you have a solid hit in its head you need to be careful your knife does not damage the shaft surface, some knife edges are harder than others. Ditto when braining it with your blade. Wet barrel you have no such worries, the shaft can even be slightly rusty as in the early days few pneumatic speargun shafts were stainless steel.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Mexico, you say... Well, you have to double check this but I think they might not allow pneumatic guns there at all. At least I read/heard that somewhere over the years.

As for the shorter gun. I would be tempted to stick with the same line of gun so you know the handle, aiming and line wrapping and don't have to adjust much when swapping between guns. And I would def go for the dry barrel - which is also lighter since there is zero water in the barrel. That said, I do think the shorter Predathors are heavier in the water than, say, a Sten. I think cuz the Salvi plastic parts are quite beefy. If it's an issue I guess you could drill out the handle a bit and perhaps add a neoprene sleeve.

There wont be any significant difference in performance between any of those guns if they are the same size. Except you supposedly get a 15-20% increase in power from the dry barrel. That can be used as a power increase if keeping the pressure the same as a wet barrel gun or you can lower the pressure a bit for easier loading, less wear on the parts and still a bit of performance increase depending on how much you lower the pressure.

You can use many types of shafts. They most often come with an M6x1 thread on the tail end, so if needed you can always get a Salvi/Mares tail end to put on any pneumatic shaft. That said, I have bought Devoto and Sigalsub a lot and they work as is. And they are good shafts.

For the dry muzzle seals, it's said that the Pelengas ones work and they have an Ebay shop. Just ask them as they have changed the seals a bit over the years. I would def carry 1-2 on a trip. If it tears, then you are worse off than with a wet barrel gun.
As for the replacement seals, I think the main bulkhead ones could be interchangeable with Mares/Seac but not sure. I think the rest are standard sizes and I have mapped most of them and will attach some info on that:

But actually, I am not so sure a 10cm shorter gun makes that much difference in handling and low viz ease of shooting? I guess you have more experience than me with viz that shitty, but I think the shortest I would go would be a 65 cuz it still has the power and reach if something bigger comes along. But you mention luggage but if you are diving and traveling with long freediving fins, then a 65 is still shorter than a set of fins, so I would just pack the gun with the fins. Forgetting about viz for a sec, about two years ago, I actually modified/built a gun to be exactly as long as it could be and still fit in my fin bag. I thought of it as my ideal travel gun, though I actually haven't used it much. But I think the idea holds up

 

[stefpix]

Thank you,
I also have a friend who moved to Miami I may go visit.
I have also shorter fins, the Cressi Pro Star that fit in a shorter bag. So if I travel somewhere where diving is not the main thing I may have a lighter/compact kit.
I have a Salvimar Intruder band gun I did take to Mexico, but it is short and underpowered, and I am a lot more accurate with the pneumatic guns.
With the Predathor 65 his summer I got an 80cm/31 inch striped bass and spear went through the skull. it was the only of legal size in a school of stripers. I also got some triggerfish whose skin is very tough and hard. shots were not from much of a distance. I got some large fluke/flounder.

I had bought a Predathor 65 vuoto but I never used it. I bought it as a backup and I am planning to sell it.
In the USA a lot of pneumatic spearguns cost much more than in Europe, especially when they get on sale.

I also ordered the regular Predathor 55, I can always resell the Vuoto 55 as new.

If the dry muzzle seals are hard to come by in the USA, a 15% performance increase may not be worth the hassle.
The Predathor 65 standard is working great, 2 seasons, I added some oil, I have the manometer gauge (which is useful). What I like about the pneumatic I can attach a small action camera on the tip and film fish/sea life I am not interested in hunting (I saw some dogfish sharks, large stingrays etc) withouth showing the speargun in the frame.

I am in NY, where band guns seem more common, but I met a couple of Russians who had 2 Cyrano 90, but they felt it was way too long and powerful. Then another guy who had a Predathor (maybe a plus) who had a better and slightly longer shaft than mine.

I could ask someone in Europe to mail me some seals, but more reliability is and durability may be worth slightly less power.
Also here the 8mm spare shafts seem to be more common than the 7mm.

I'd love to try./use the vuoto, but I need to make sure the spare disposable seals are easy to come by.

this is late Autums diving

 

[popgun pete]

You should get a season out of a vacuum seal, but it depends on how many shots you take. Wet the muzzle before inserting the spear as lubrication prevents the seal lip being damaged, say when checking the gun out on land. The inner barrel needs some water in it for lubrication which is provided by water trapped inside the muzzle when you load the gun underwater with a gun that uses cup type seals in the muzzle.

Inserting the spear tail displaces water inside the muzzle and the cup seals open outwards letting any excess water out, but don't let water in as the spear is pushed back inside the gun.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Personally, I would just get it over with and get some seals. As said, Pelengas’ webshop or eBay seller might sort you out easily. Or like you said, have a European friend drop some in the mail for you. They are around 10 euros for a pack of three for the Salvi ones but I think someone here felt the Pelengas version was more sturdy.
Then drop the pressure a little in your gun and enjoy easier loading, a faster and more quiet shot, a less heavy gun and less wear on the parts. What’s not to like.

And do check up on regulations in Mexico before you bring any airgun there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[popgun pete]

Actually my friends in the USA (Southern California) tell me that pneumatic spearguns are not allowed in Mexico. This state of affairs began when carbon dioxide and expellable gas guns were used to shoot large residential reef fish for commercial purposes, usually by poachers, and those powerful guns were banned. As pneumatic guns look just like those guns they banned them as well and this has carried through to the modern rear handle pneumatic spearguns. Only band guns in Mexico unfortunately and if the officer on the spot thinks that your gun is not allowable then he will seize it with no room for debate.

 

[MarsArtis]

Hi I have been doing a search but I could not come up with reliable results.

I have a Salvimar Predathor 65, I am happy with.

I was looking for a slightly shorter speargun for low visibility and for travel, so it can fit in a smaller bag.

I was looking at the Mares Jet 58.

I have the Salvimar manometer, which I find it handy.
What is the compatibility between pump threads and shafts between Salvimar Predathor, Seac Asso, Cressi and Mares?
I live in the USA (NY), so parts are not as readily available as in Europe.
So knowing if shafts, manometer gauge and pumps can be used on different brands, if i do not find the specific one.
Is Seac Asso = Mares Sten?
I also am considering the Salvimar Predathor Vuoto 55. But I am worried that the thinner shaft may bend too easily around rocks/jetties. Although a lighter shaft can be good with a shorter gun.

I am happy with the power and accuracy of my Salvimar Predathor 65, I got some large striped bass, and shaft went all the ay through. But sometimes here the visibility is so bad that i would not mind a shorter gun. Also the 65 is a few inches/cm too long for my regular travel bag.

Thank you!

First of all let me tell you that as you may notice by the nominal length there's not so much difference between a 65cm and a58 cm long gun.

This said I would recommend you to stay away from Jet series. I'll try to explain why:
the leverage system that from the trigger (52 in the diagram) starts and ends at the release tooth (50) (I hope that this is the correct english name) has its weak point in the hole present in the handle that make the trigger pin (45) move up and down. Since there'e no metal guard guide for the pin the hole soon or later will become oval and the oring will no more grant the seal

 

[vrokhlenko]

Hi I have been doing a search but I could not come up with reliable results.

I have a Salvimar Predathor 65, I am happy with.

I was looking for a slightly shorter speargun for low visibility and for travel, so it can fit in a smaller bag.

I was looking at the Mares Jet 58.

I have the Salvimar manometer, which I find it handy.
What is the compatibility between pump threads and shafts between Salvimar Predathor, Seac Asso, Cressi and Mares?
I live in the USA (NY), so parts are not as readily available as in Europe.
So knowing if shafts, manometer gauge and pumps can be used on different brands, if i do not find the specific one.
Is Seac Asso = Mares Sten?
I also am considering the Salvimar Predathor Vuoto 55. But I am worried that the thinner shaft may bend too easily around rocks/jetties. Although a lighter shaft can be good with a shorter gun.

I am happy with the power and accuracy of my Salvimar Predathor 65, I got some large striped bass, and shaft went all the ay through. But sometimes here the visibility is so bad that i would not mind a shorter gun. Also the 65 is a few inches/cm too long for my regular travel bag.

Thank you!

Mares pump is a piece of shit. The thread is M14x1 and the internal diameter of the opening for the o-ring at the end of the pump is 10mm (that o-ring seals a 10mm diameter opening). The reason Cyrano pump is shit is because that end-piece with o-ring that screws into the back of the gun is pressed-in into the body of the pump. This end-piece gets loose and prevents pumping to the desired pressure. Salvimar got it right - that thread is a part of the body of the pump thus it will never get loose. All that prompted me to make my own pumps that are fully serviceable and have a proper piston with two o-rings - not an oil-viper style, I also threaded the end to screw it into the back of the gun so no lose parts. My point is - avoid mares pumps at all cost

 

[popgun pete]

First of all let me tell you that as you may notice by the nominal length there's not so much difference between a 65cm and a58 cm long gun.

This said I would recommend you to stay away from Jet series. I'll try to explain why:
the leverage system that from the trigger (52 in the diagram) starts and ends at the release tooth (50) (I hope that this is the correct english name) has its weak point in the hole present in the handle that make the trigger pin (45) move up and down. Since there'e no metal guard guide for the pin the hole soon or later will become oval and the oring will no more grant the seal

Although this is the Competition Line trigger, the Jet trigger is much the same, only it has eliminated the adjustable fore-aft section which was molded in fluoro green. Never had a problem with that gun, but then I have never owned a Jet or even met anyone who used one.

 

[popgun pete]

Mares pump is a piece of shit. The thread is M14x1 and the internal diameter of the opening for the o-ring at the end of the pump is 10mm (that o-ring seals a 10mm diameter opening). The reason Cyrano pump is shit is because that end-piece with o-ring that screws into the back of the gun is pressed-in into the body of the pump. This end-piece gets loose and prevents pumping to the desired pressure. Salvimar got it right - that thread is a part of the body of the pump thus it will never get loose. All that prompted me to make my own pumps that are fully serviceable and have a proper piston with two o-rings - not an oil-viper style, I also threaded the end to screw it into the back of the gun so no lose parts. My point is - avoid mares pumps at all cost

Every Mares gun uses that same pump and I have a large number of them. Originally Mares used a bayonet connection, so the pump nose end was a separate piece that screwed into the pump body, then they changed to a screw connection by just changing the end piece on the pump to match the new inlet valve body used in the guns. For a time they offered a conversion end piece to retrofit new pumps to use them on old bayonet connection guns. Both my Sten and my Mirage use the bayonet connection.

As a matter of interest the LG-Sub guns use a Mares pump with the threaded connection.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Every Mares gun uses that same pump and I have a large number of them. Originally Mares used a bayonet connection, so the pump nose end was a separate piece that screwed into the pump body, then they changed to a screw connection by just changing the end piece on the pump to match the new inlet valve body used in the guns. For a time they offered a conversion end piece to retrofit new pumps to use them on old bayonet connection guns. Both my Sten and my Mirage use the bayonet connection.

As a matter of interest the LG-Sub guns use a Mares pump with the threaded connection.

I have three mares guns. The oldest one is 25 years old and its pump lasted the longest. On my two newer guns the pumps broke pretty fast. All guns are Cyrano. That what prompted me to make my own. The choice of M14x1 thread is retarded since 1mm pitch is appropriate for 6mm diameter. For M14 the pitch must be 2mm. The wholesale price of that Mares gun is about 7 Euros. It is pure garbage. The guns are reliable if maintained properly. The bulky plastic slide rings obviously is shit as well so I make my own.

 

[popgun pete]

Tip, always add a few drops of oil into your hand pump before using it.

 

[vrokhlenko]

Tip, always add a few drops of oil into your hand pump before using it.

My pump uses no oil, baby. All silicone grease and all o-rings are replaceable. This pump will outlive my grandchildren

 

[MarsArtis]

Every Mares gun uses that same pump and I have a large number of them. Originally Mares used a bayonet connection, so the pump nose end was a separate piece that screwed into the pump body, then they changed to a screw connection by just changing the end piece on the pump to match the new inlet valve body used in the guns. For a time they offered a conversion end piece to retrofit new pumps to use them on old bayonet connection guns. Both my Sten and my Mirage use the bayonet connection.

As a matter of interest the LG-Sub guns use a Mares pump with the threaded connection.

Have disassembled something like 10 mares competition and jet guns. They all had the pin hole deformed and weared out.
The last one was rescued by replacin' the handle with a Sten one.

In the latest Cressi Saetta the manufacturer is using a very similar system as the one described above for the Competition/Jet Mares models. But I've had no direct experience with that speargun.

 

[Diving Gecko]

My pump uses no oil, baby. All silicone grease and all o-rings are replaceable. This pump will outlive my grandchildren

You have mentioned the pump before and I am intrigued - can you share some pics, please? The more the merrier.
I think I know how the o-ring piston seal works. By the o-rings moving into a part of the piston with a small slot in it to allow "leakage" when retracting the handle, right?

The reason I am asking is that I was very close to making such an exact pump before a trip a while back but ran out of time. I have been burned 2-3 times before with shitty pumps breaking on me on trips. Once, the seal of my One Air pump disintegrated as I was filling up a 120 gun and a small piece of rubber from the pump seal got stuck in the inlet valve of the gun. As a result, the gun which I had just about pumped to 27 or so bar lost all the air and I had to take it apart, fix it, fix the pump and pump the gun back up. I was not happy. Another time, I cross threaded a Seac pump and yeah, my Mares pump has the pushed-in end wiggling loose.