Q: Roller speargun recommendation for UK waters & fish?

[popgun pete]

I assume you cock the wishbone first and then tighten up the band anchor with the block and tackle. How do you lock the block and tackle off once you have the band tension that you want? Interesting to see you are using the Sea Hornet handle, a lot of guys slag off on those, but I have quite a lot of Sea Hornet guns which have served me well for years, including my own timber guns built using the parts.

 

[CCspearo]

I assume you cock the wishbone first and then tighten up the band anchor with the block and tackle. How do you lock the block and tackle off once you have the band tension that you want? Interesting to see you are using the Sea Hornet handle, a lot of guys slag off on those, but I have quite a lot of Sea Hornet guns which have served me well for years, including my own timber guns built using the parts.

Hi pete
If you zoom in on the handle you will see a stainless cleat it is v shaped with rear facing teeth I just swing the tesioning cord across the gun and it is captured by the cleat. Works first time every time. i had to make it myself out of stainless steel there was some plasic ones on the net, but I wouldnt trust them. I like the sea hornets I have 4 of them. They take an 8mm shaft which is needed in aussie conditions and the line release is perfect for rollers. I must admit I had to change the plastic trigger cassette to stainless the on the 100cm gun to take the extra power.

 

[CCspearo]

Hi pete
If you zoom in on the handle you will see a stainless cleat it is v shaped with rear facing teeth I just swing the tesioning cord across the gun and it is captured by the cleat. Works first time every time. i had to make it myself out of stainless steel there was some plasic ones on the net, but I wouldnt trust them. I like the sea hornets I have 4 of them. They take an 8mm shaft which is needed in aussie conditions and the line release is perfect for rollers. I must admit I had to change the plastic trigger cassette to stainless the on the 100cm gun to take the extra power.

here is a close up. Very little effort required to crank the 18mm rubber up to 400% stretch.

 

[popgun pete]

I thought that might have been a cleat as it is not a standard part, it is a good idea! Sea Hornet originally had an all stainless steel cassette, but cost considerations made them switch to plastic. You can see one of those mechanisms in my competition gun and another sitting alongside it. The line drop handle came later, hence the short trigger.

 

[Mr. X]

Well, I placed my order tonight, before reading this week's posts but I think you'll approve.

Prices just dropped ahead of Black Friday. I decided to bite the bullet and buy 2 new spearguns - quite out of character for me.

The first one is a 95cm Apnea Amorak roller. Made in Turkey I believe. A more rational/normal me would instead have bought a regular single band 100 or 105cm or 110cm with a carbon barrel but I want to try a roller. I also handled the 95cm non-roller version of the Amorak a few years ago and loved it but it was priced similarly to the rollergun now, had it been under £100 (as its current price is) I would have bought it there and then.

The other speargun is a 60cm Apnea ST, with double 14mm bands. Seemed rather overpriced even at 20% off but when they cut prices by 30%, I figured the seller is making a effort. Still not cheap for a regular metal band gun but it comes with a shark-fin spear, 2x14mm bands with tie-in Dyneema wishbones. I would have preferred it without a rail (less lateral drag, lighter, cheaper) but it's quite short so hopefully not a big deal. A more rational/normal me might have bought a reverse trigger, single bulk rubber band 60cm speargun without a rail, not unlike the ST.

I hope these Apnea spearguns are good. No doubt I will review them when I get them. The store where I first handled the Apnea Amorak is the Spearfishing Store in Paignton, S. Devon and that is also who I ended up ordering from, through there website spearfishingstore co.uk - 30% off everything now!!!

 

[Mr. X]

I also bought an Alton lead weight. The Alton moulds were I believe produced by a forum member, and sold worldwide, at least in part in response to demand by DeeperBlue.com forum members and were named for two of them. And some of the weights made using Alton moulds were made in Devon by another prominent forum member.

Also, I ordered my first spearfishing reel! No real (!) need for it but perhaps time to find out more about them. An Apnea Next Gen reel, a little reminiscent of the current RA reel but considerably cheaper.

 

[sharkey]

Two new spearguns under the Christmas tree. Must have been a very good boy this year. It will be interesting to read your feedback on the roller & also the reel. Will you be tempted to try them before spring?
I'm guilty of the same, well not so much being good, just more new spearguns. This is the first from Santa so far (I expect there will be more). Its a bit of a specialist as its not really a big gun, but it isnt a small gun either, I'm hoping it fills a particular gap for top water pelagic fish (not tuna or large reef fish) in good visibility.

 

[popgun pete]

Reverse triggers are not the be all and end all, they are often enthused about as allowing more stretch because the shaft notches can sit further back on the gun, however to do that the sear box is cut back and basically just offers a short roof to control the spear tail on the way out of the gun. If you want more stretch just make yourself a longer gun. Very few reverse triggers dry fire except when the weight of the sear levers cause them to drop because there are no biasing springs on the sear lever. The Sea Hornet reverse trigger mechanism, one of the first for spearguns, both dry fires and has a fully enclosed sear box tunnel to control the spear tail. Only a few were made with thicker levers, the production model's levers were rather thin and thus limited in the load they can hold because they were designed for the existing range of Sea Hornet guns using either 2 x 5/16" or 1 x 3/4" bands.

Rails or open tracks on spearguns guide the shaft tail into the sear box mouth during reloading, you just run the shaft under your hand that is loosely gripping the barrel so that the shaft is caught between your fingers and the guide track that acts as a guide "tunnel".

I should add that the main virtue for a eurogun is the shallow nature of the reverse trigger mechanism which makes for the gun profile first seen in the Omer "Cayman" which pushes the handgrip’s centre of pressure right up behind the shooting axis of the gun. The gun can then be of low mass and still not have muzzle flip because the torque acting on your wrist is very low when the gun recoils. Actually this is not a new idea as the Cavalero “Champion" Arbalete did the exact same thing with its pioneering design over 70 years ago using the very shallow pull down sear lever trigger mechanism which was borrowed from the spring gun.

 

[CCspearo]

Sounds like a great deal I can't wait to see your review.

 

[Mr. X]

Thanks guys

Sharky not so much reward for a very a good boy, more compensation for a challenging year. Nice woodie

Interesting Pete, I wasn't aware of that, I've not used a reverse trigger mech yet. I did consider a short Apnea speargun with reverse mech but no rail, perhaps not a good combination? I keep mentioning reverse mevhs partly to elicit feedback, yours is only the second comment over several months, the other was Rob Allen I think, commenting that some folks struggle to load to the last notch/fin, thereby loosing any benefit. Something I need to try. Perhaps I should have bought just one speargun, to check out Apnea and their reverse trigger mechs. The Amorak has an all metal mech, the ST not. Actually Pete, I think you have used the Apnea mech, on your rebadged Amarok-alike?

BTW spearfishingstore.co.uk have the 85cm model of the Amarok roller - likely the most popular size with most UK spearos - back in stock now, and with a 30% discount!

 

[popgun pete]

A lot of deals going on with "Black Friday", some running through to the start of December, so provided the prices are genuinely low it is the time to buy. Always be wary of prices being increased prior to being "marked down", it is an old trick where the "savings" are illusory. If you know your prices a few weeks prior then you know if they are being truly reduced. Yes, the "Nemrod" is a rebadged Apnea gun from Turkey and shoots OK, it has a reverse trigger mechanism.. Mannysub also sell the same gun fitted out as a rollergun.

Apnea Amarok 85cm Open Muzzle Speargun

The Amarok 85cm from Apnea is an open muzzle gun with a professional series handle and trigger mechanism. The internal parts of the trigger mechani

www.apneaspearfishing.co.uk

The speargun has a different colour grip handle as the Apnea gun shown here. Note the shape of the nameplate badge in the grip, it is the same on all of them.

 

[Mr. X]

I like the white handle, would match my Omers. The roller set up and anchor point look different. The orange one has bands over the roller (regular?). The white one has cord over the roller ( inverted roller?). The orange one has 3 small anchor points in- line and the set-up shows all 3 being used at the same time. The white one appears to have one much larger anchor.

https://www.spearfishingstore.co.uk/apnea-amarok-roller-85cm-speargun.html?search=Amarok

BTW Spearfishingstore.co.uk also sell a full range of the slightly cheaper Apnea Whaler range of rollers, from 35cm to, I think, 110cm. The Whaler non-roller and roller models seem to be the main/biggest selling Apnea model.

 

[popgun pete]

The Apnea Amarok and its rebadged siblings have been around for many years, it is not Apnea’s latest gun, but still does the job. The ST is their latest offering with a slightly different handle molding. These manufacturers have a box full of parts that they can swap out to make different models, as well as the barrels which can be alloy, carbon or polyurethane jacketed alloy such as is used in the “Elliptic” version. No barrel clonks with carbon or jacketed barrels, but the fish don’t seem to mind unless they are very flighty.

 

[Mr. X]

Yes, I think most manufacturers cobble together different models like that. Omer's extensive Cayman range for example built around the Cayman handle and mech. Actually the Cayman carbon 100/110 might have been a good choice for me. Quite similar to my existing Omer XXVs but with a beefier handle, mech and a rail to better handle the increased power and, optionally double bands. Quite expensive, even on sale but it includes a loaded Omer match reel which should fit any of my Omer's.Hmm, maybe next year

That Apnea have been around a while is a good thing. I don't feel the need to buy the latest and greatest, I'm not really an "early adopter". I prefer to let the dust settle, the bugs shake out before I commit. Although I am a (late) convert to carbon barrels, I liked the polyurethane over aluminium oval/cuttlefish barrel when I handled the non-roller Amarok a couple of years ago. I am a little concerned that the length and weight might agravate my shoulder injuries; I'm hoping the PU might provide a little extra buoyancy. I will probably need to work on how I carry it in the water to avoid injury.

I didn't realise that the ST is the latest model but that makes sense. It seemed overpriced and, as Foxfish pointed out, the latest trend seems to be 2x14mm rubbers. I very much like the tied-in Dyneema wishbones, I hope these become commonplace, for both cheap spearguns as well as flagship products. The 2x14mm configuration is newly popular here but has been a/the popular configuration in Hawaii for decades. Probably not a significant benefit on the short 60cm model I bought (I find it easy to load the single 19/20mm bulk rubber band on my 75cm speargun but that thickness band on my old 90 caused both pain and injury) but quite helpful for spearguns 90cm and longer. BTW I am using a single 16mm bulk rubber on my current 90cm speargun and really like it; I plan to switch my 75cm speargun to a 16mm rubber when I replace its band next year.

 

[Mr. X]

Pete, I just read your updated post above, about reverse triggers, thanks I added a couple of pics to my post above.

BTW I was going to buy a Cressi Pacific open muzzle for possible future use but they sold out (clearly I'm not the only one to like the look of them). With the 30% discount, I bought the v. similar but usually more expensive Cressi Geronimo muzzle, which I think is the same muzzle but with magnets So, if the roller doesn't work for me perhaps I could fit that (but perhaps not, Apnea sell 2 versions of it's roller muzzle, one for the oval Amarok Barrel and the other for most of their other models i.e. regular 28mm aluminium railed barrels). It certainly won't fit the 25mm carbon barrels on my Omer's.

 

[Mr. X]

BTW I was pleasantly surprised to read that the Omer Cayman carbon has a (railed) 25mm carbon barrel, just like the XXVs. So now wondering if Omer's double muzzle and roller muzzles could be fitted to the XXVs? Although perhaps best to keep the XXVs stock, super lightweight

BTW I was surprised to see DiveInn scubastore are no longer carrying the Cayman carbon roller speargun. A lightweight carbon barrel seems like a good feature to help offset a heavy muzzle. The lack of "recoil" (muzzle jump?) with a roller should help offset the need to ballast long carbon barrels (RA ballast their carbon barrels). Reading Pete's updated post, the Cayman's reverse trigger should also help.

 

[Mr. X]

BTW Perhaps of interest to speargun builders and customizers, SpearfishingStore.co.uk have Apnea's roller muzzle kit on 30% discount too.

I think it includes the under-barrel anchor fitment and a replacement reel cleat too, which should allow you to fit (at least) one of the 3 Apnea reels on offer (cheap compared to more prominent brands and also on sale now).

 

[foxfish]

The twin 14mm band popularity has come about due to the small internal diameter bands that are now available .
These bands can be super stretched to 3,75 their length so in theory offer more power and faster spear speed.
However I am just quoting what I read, how much actual difference they make I can’t really say?

 

[Mr. X]

I have some 14mm bulk rubber in my freezer from an order placed some years ago. It's the same internal diameter as my 16mm and 19/20mm rubbers i.e. suitable for use with RA 1.9mn Dyneema wishbones and beads. I am thinking that is the low diameter rubber your describe; the hole is much smaller than those in the euro rubbers I've encountered. It has been manufactured and available in the USA for sometime, perhaps not so much elsewhere? I ordered direct from spearitco.com in the USA.

Was just looking at the new (?) Beuchat Hero non-roller speargun. Very nice. Hope they come out with a carbon barrel 105/110cm version of the Hero in the future. I reckon the current 80cm aluminium version of the Hero would be a pretty sweet choice for the UK.

 

[foxfish]

I bought my 14mm super stretch rubber from Apnea it has a tiny inner hole , it is a sort of brown colour with a white powder finish (that obviously come off as soon as you handle it) unfortunately they don’t stock it anymore!
I don’t use beads, just a single overhand knot with super glue finish, I spear the knot on the end of a bradel and push it down.
Someone told me it was developed for catapult bands?