Recreational Drugs in Freediving

[cjborgert]

Recreational pharmacy

I don't mean to sound condescending, but I have a Ph.D. in pharmacology with more than 12 years of professional experience evaluating the effects of drugs and chemicals on humans, including human performance.

The way I view it is pretty simple. If you want to waste your time polluting a wonderful activity like diving with recreational pharmacy, be my guest. You degrade your experience (though you may be unaware of it) and you significantly decrease your chances of ever having the opportunity to do it again.

It's a classic opportunity for natural selection, so how could I argue against it . . . in the long run, it will leave the waters a little less crowded for the rest of us.

 

[zipy]

Hmmm... it seems we have alot of people here who have many experiences with drugs (recreational or not).

I ocasionaly use weed (once or twice a month) and belive me i will not wait another 6 weeks for my next dive so THC would not be detected. But i would wait a day or two. The affects usualy wear off (that is for me) in a few hours, maybe half a day -- i mean that for "the stoned faze".

I don't think i had ever dived under an influence of any drug well maybe coffeine but that is it.

Take care

 

[Spearooo]

I have a friend who after getting hammered diceded to try a bit of Apnea in his pool and guess what he blacked out and came close to bieng dead had his brother not been looking out the window and saw him floating face down in 3 feet of water.
In my opinion it is not drugs that are the problem but attitudes towards them. If distinctions were made among drugs and they were not so vilanized maybe people would not be so curious about them. When I was a kid the first time I saw a persn smoke a joint I thought they would likely turn into somekind of feind or change color and when all I saw them do was laugh I was like dam what liers my parents are. Sure marijuana is a gateway but why is it a geteway not bc. it makes you want to do other worse drugs but bc. getting it puts you in contact with a dealer who wants to get you hooked on something not quite as harmless. Experimentation is a fact of life and no matter how much money is spent on the war on drugs people will never want to stop trying new things especially if they are illegal. The sacred context these substances once had has been forgoten and they have become and easy way to escape reality and a scapegoat to blame most modern problems on. Granted coke is the devil but coca has been in ceremonial use for millenia without any abuse but now in modern times when it is illegal it has become the scurge of the plannet. They have become a tool of escape from realty rather than the tools of self discovery they once were. Self discovery is a journey that has many paths and no single one is correct however self denial is always detremental.
Nothing is xs is good
that being said I will dawn the ninja suit( sinse spliff) everynow and then to change things up a bit. I do not drink or do any other substance ever.

 

[Spearooo]

Thc

was a lad during the 1960's. I was a complete ass-hole then, and took gargantuan quantities of all sorts of drugs, often at the same time. I have probably spilled more dope than you've taken over your whole life.

I bet I can name more drugs than you even knew existed. Times change my freind

Freediving while high ? Forget it . That is so off the wall it does not even rise to the level of being wrong. If you are doing that, you really ought to rethink your whole program. You can do much better..

I am a firm believer in the saying to each his own. Your statement is quite contradictory bc I am willing to bet that your experimentation is what has lead you to your current feelings on the issue. How can someone just take your word for it when obviously you found it quite exciting.The sun can't be hidden with one finger to say someone is wrong for doing something they find sacred is just a wrong as thinking that everyone is the same a you. I Believe in the Decriminalization of the herb not in irresponsible drug use. Granted today there are so many bad things out there that there needs to be a clear distinction btwn a simple plant and a artificialy fabricated chemicals that is made in a lab. The Ninja suit has nothing to do with aiding myself in diving but rather calming and forgetting about the rest of the world for awhile and hopefully listening to the ocean better there are situations were it helps to forget about the stresses of everydaylife . Safety should always be paramount on all divers minds regardless of their routines or beliefs.

 

[pkotik]

SUIT YOURSELF!

I defer to your plainly greater wisdom. No reasonable person could doubt that you know best.

Let's revisit it on your 50th birthday and compare notes again!
I'll buy dinner.

Paul

 

[cjborgert]

Re: SUIT YOURSELF!

Originally posted by pkotik
I defer to your plainly greater wisdom.

I'm with Paul.
I also defer to Spearooo's greater potential for doing some jail time . . . Or is that a concern that comes only with assuming adult responsibilities like raising children, running a business, being a dive buddy . . . boring stuff like that?

 

[cjborgert]

Official Positions

I'm not the official DeeperBlue spokesman, but I'm sure I have the backing of the forum in pointing out that DeeperBlue, its staff, and its mentors are committed to promoting safe and responsible diving.

Recreational drug use while diving is neither safe nor responsible and thus, this thread runs counter to the mission of the forum. It has been left intact purely in the interests of free speech.

Let's all keep in mind that while we have the freedom to say what we wish, we also bear the responsibility for its impact. Let's be mindful of how this thread might impact other freedivers and the perceptions of others about freediving, shall we?

 

[Jon]

Weren't there a couple of scuba divers who went missing off of San Diego about 10-15 years ago because they smoked a joint and tried for some personal best depth record on scuba???

I know that about 10 years ago we had two guys from Wisconsin get back from the bar and try to go scuba diving at night, under the ice, without a rope, and only one light........

When they recovered their bodies one of the widows commented that she just found out that she was pregnant and didn't even get a chance to tell her husband before he died.

When I was in highschool and college I worked at as a ski patroller at this local ski hill. I saw more drunken tree crashes in a single day than other friends of mine saw in three years at their hills. What was the difference? We had a big bar at our ski hill with these buckets of beer that had " I drank that whole thing and still skied the slopes at XXXXXX" printed on the side of them. People tried it and we packed them up for the hospital afterwards.:duh

Drugs and diving don't mix.

Jon

 

[Spearooo]

Thc

Wisdom is the ability to recognize how little one knows.

 

[cjborgert]

Re: Thc

Originally posted by Spearooo
Wisdom is the ability to recognize how little one knows.

OK Socrates, we got it . . . wish you would.

 

[Spearooo]

thc

I thankfully have no children or serious responsabilities that would require a selfless comitment to a greater cause that would require me to be didicated to something so much that I would have to diprive myself of the few pleasures I allow myself. Sure the big house is always in the back of every one who steps outside the norms of society but being informed goes a long way. I doubt that one j will land you in jail any quicker than a DUI as a matter a fact it is a much less dangerous offense than putting other lives at risk. I am not advocating dany kind of drug use I am just stating that the current policy this nation is pursuing is non effective in any way and the fact that misinformation is being spread does little to curb the growing problem thats right Its is a problem that needs solving but restricting free speech and peoples choices to do what they want with their bodies does little more than fuel their desire to experiment. Take Holland as an example less teenager are doing the kind of crap they do here in the states bc. they live in an open society. I am with you guys 100% about most of what has been said but discussion rather than represion is more effective in getting people to see what the real dangers are. I know several doctors who have told me time and time again about the evils of alcohol and how many cases they see in the ER due to testosterone induced accidents bc. of drinking. I am not saying that they are good but that sometimes a bit a logic will go a long ways. Safety should always be a concer to every diver and clouded judgement is probably the #1 most dangerous thing a diver can face but this confusion can be generated by many thing and the fact that a person abstains from every single substance will make them less likely to fall victim but not immmune.

 

[jeff.richardson]

karma to cjborgert

Hey Chris,

The stupid system wouldn't let me give you Karma on this (it said I have to "spread it around" before I can give it to you again), so I decided to do it this way.

Thanks for being there to keep this crazy thread in line. I know you are far too busy to have to waste your time with this crap, but are willing to keep up your "selfless comitment to a greater cause".

 

[pkotik]

WELL SAID, SPEAROO

The young are often very excited when they come up with an idea or opinion which is different from ( or better yet, directly opposed to ) the conventional wisdom. This can be most thrilling !

This is good - this one of the features of the human being that drives innovation. Where would we be without it ?

It is absolutely critical, however, to apply the filters of knowledge and experience to the products of intelligence. Intelligence is actually pretty cheap on the biological market - supply is large. Knowledge and experience, however, are expensive, as they require large sunk costs in time, effort and pain.

Whenever I feel myself starting to develop a perception that seems novel, one of the first things I do is ask myself whether I really think I am smarter than all those who came before me. Is it truly the case that all those good people were and are wrong, and I am right ? And if so, why ?

When a new idea or perception passes through THAT filter, then, dear friends, THAT is exciting !

Most of the time, though, the answer is "no". Perceptions and ideas are subject to the same sort of Darwinian natural selection that organisms are.

The ideas and perceptions which prevail in the present ( like the genes which prevail in the present) are those which have survived the harsh tests of time. Broadly speaking, they have become the conventional wisdom because they generally work. They add to the bottom line. The bottom line in the natural world is survival and genetic continuity.

The carriers of wrong ideas, like the carriers of maladaptive genes, tend to be less successful survivors and reproducers.

Their numbers diminish relative to those of the carriers of right ideas and adaptive genes.

This principle is reflected in the old cliche, popular among the commercial dive boat operators on Maui and elsewhere:

"There are bold divers, and there are old divers, but no old bold divers."



Live long and prosper, my dear friends and readers.


Paul

 

[Jon]

Chris,

I had the same problem as Jeff. I tried to give you karma and it wouldn't let me.

Jon

 

[cjborgert]

Thanks guys

I appreciate the attempts to give me karma . . . I need some once in a while.

 

[bluewater]

decreased performance

University life up here lends to a lot of drinking on the weekends and I would say that my performance after a night of light drinking is reduce Tremendously. I have cut down on the drinking quite a bit for that reason.

On the subject of pot I have never dove under the influence but I haven't found that my performance is reduced as much the next day but I always feel a little out of it in the morning and I think you would be a fool to push the limits. I limit myself to less than 50% my normal limits, which for me means very shallow and short.

One the topic of other drugs and drugs in the water. I have done a lot of different drugs recreationally and intend to try more. I think using certain drugs after reviewing scientific literature on their safe use is actually good for you're mind in some instances. I have a group of friends who are responsible and we look out for each other when we take part in our mind expanding activities and I think I've learned a lot from these experiences. However, some people just don't get it when it comes to safety and get off on pushing the limits unnecessarily. That includes any sort of activity, even diving while sober. Ask yourself why you are undertaking the activities you are and whether or not its likely to kill you. One of my friends who recently got SCUBA certified asked me about diving on shrooms and basically we came to the decision that it just was not safe and not worth it. Now I'm not a prude and I'm considering going snorkling with him(without a weight belt) since we both feel we are responsible enough to do this. But this is a choice we are making in full understanding of the risk we are taking, and all the variables that we can bring to mind that are involved.

Consider this:
I've heard from people's stories about SCUBA diving with alcohol that the effects of drugs are almost always drastically enhanced when at depth, I don't know how this may end up complicating your dive but it can't be good.

Many people lose the more reasonable part of their inner voice when on drugs and I've seen even the most experienced and responsible drug user do stupid things at times, you won't have a "sitter" helping you in the water

Your limits will seem deeper and longer on a drug but likely they will actually be the opposite and your body won't be able to tell you this

You are putting a great burden on anyone you are diving with as far as responsibility if you are hurt

Diving is enough fun sober

If your living a lifestyle that involves the same drug being used all the time, to the extent that your worried about having residual effects while diving, you may be doing damage to your brain. Read some primary scientific literature on risks. Even pot can cause damage if used enough.

The more you roll the dice, the more likely it is that something will go wrong

What will your family members think if you die in the water because you were on drugs?

Believe me, I have thought about diving on psycadelics very seriously and decided that it was just to risky. If you have to try it, go snorkling at a good spot with a sober buddy you trust, without a weight belt and a nice bouyant wetsuit, and I'm sure you'll have a great trip. But don't take anyone elses word for it, concider all the risks and make your own choice.

 

[David Biron]

Recreational Drugs

Funny irony here. I came to freediving to purge my system of drugs and bad habbits. The purity of the sport and respiratory discipline required were what enabled me to finally quit smoking after 25 yrs. I was a Hard Hat navy diver who smoked marlborough cigaretts and drank beer, a mans man. Freediving was the vessel which allowed me to overcome my self destructive tendancies.
Can you do drugs and dive. Sure, but why would you. Can you do drugs and win the National Spearfishing tournament. I doubt it. Its the decisions we make which chose our ultimate path in life. Find what you want in life and challenge yourself to get it.

Living drug free in Rhode Island -

David Biron
2001, 2002 Picasso Open champion

 

[Spearooo]

Life is fragile, all it takes is a mometary lapse in judgement and you can end up as just another statistic. Freediving is an extreme sport with extreme consequences. Balance is essential for any living being to function properly nowhere is the effects of this dilicate balance felt more greatly than the ocean, the place were life first spawned. When using any kind of substance to first thing to be affected by any substance is often judgement and this is the key component that maintains the balance in any diver. Freediving is a journey of selfexploration were knowing ones limits becomes center piece of the activity. When a person enters the water he is a alien in hostile yet deceptively beautiful enviroment wich can claim life just as easily as it can sustain it.
I know I sound contradictory but that the way life is. Moderation and information are the keys to any healthy lifestyle no matter what the individuals choices are. know what you are getting into and prepare for the worst.

 

[w3ac]

I still can't believe that I'm reading some of this stuff. It just doesn't make sense. Freediving is an extremely physically and mentally demanding sport. Any mind altering substance taken before a dive icreases the risk of bad stuff happening. The attitude of some of the posts I'm reading is my body my problem. When your foolish behavior, thinking, actions affects me; then it becomes my problem. It becomes the problem of those trying to rescue the fool(s). It becomes the problem of the loved ones of the fool(s). It becomes the problem of the whole freediving community who are trying to change to the minds of people who think we are a bunch of foolish daredevils. There is a lot more I can say but at this time, I will just shut up. Some people out there should do so as well.

Brad

















:mute :mute

 

[OceanSwimmer]

Recreational Drugs in Freediving....

"Intelligence is actually pretty cheap on the biological market - supply is large. Knowledge and experience, however, are expensive, as they require large sunk costs in time, effort and pain." --Paul Kotik


I think what Paul has said here is worth examining closely.
I've been reading this post because there's a lot to it.
Food for thought and fuel for concern.

To paraphrase if I may:
There is a lot of information available about drugs.
Everyone has access to this, and it is fairly comprehensive. Sometimes reading information can give one the impression that all that is required is the data.

-----In the case of drugs, that's not true.

The 'wild card' is anyone's response to drugs...even with experience with them, even when a individual believes he/she 'knows their own limits.'
[[and to defuse the label a bit, I'm going to include any drugs, including prescription or OTC even when used according to instruction in the proper application and indications.]]
The truth is, there is no such thing as 'knowing one's limits' -- with recreational or prescription drugs.
Believing one has a grasp on 'limits' affirms the opposite.

---Here's where Paul's post indicates some teeth:
"Knowledge and experience, however, are expensive, as they require large sunk costs in time, effort and pain."

To me this means when you witness/participate in the rescues, read the obits., and lives are lost because of risk-taking behavior....one's perspective changes dramatically.

Even in the most controlled circumstances, Murphy's Law happens. We can believe we are prepared for the worst: but in these circumstances, drinking alcohol and smoking grass...you can't be prepared. To believe you are is denial.

Safety is a huge issue in both SCUBA and freediving. The reasons for instruction, certification (SCUBA), and active involvement in both sports require that everyone act in a way that is safe for oneself, and for your dive-partner(s) as well.

I think the point many are trying to make here is that when we participate in these activities, we affect ourselves and everyone around us, whether we want to acknowledge this...or not.

I mean this in the most low-key, friendly way:
....Bluewater and Spearoo, if you were my kids I'd have to ask you ---what do you think you're doin'?