Riffe, JBL or sea Hornet???

[Luis]

Hello everybody!

I need some advice, I'm practically new to the sport but with some background. I want to buy a gun, about 38-42 inches. I love riffes but seems to be a little too much for my budget and experience :duh , I was reading and doing some research on JBLs and Rhino sea hornets, and they look ok acording to what I'm looking for, and the prices are much more affordable than riffes. I'll love to hear some comments and advice on these guns from experienced people like most of you. Basically I'm looking for something polivalent, I'll be shooting on rocky bottom most of the time with some sporadic expedition to blue waters. I'm kind of weekend warrior , and I'll be able to hunt maybe twice a month. Consider that and let me know what you think.

Best regards from Mexico, and if there are any hunter in Puerto vallarta looking for a spearfishing buddy... count on me!

Luis.

 

[feign]

If you are able to afford a riffe, then get one. You get what you pay for and they are the highest quality and will last virtually forever (especially with every replacement part available to you). The competitor series are more reasonably priced. I have two riffes and love how versatile they are. You can configure so much with size & number of bands, shaft length and diameters, breakaway set-ups, reels etc.

If you simply can't afford the riffe, why not consider some of the Euro guns like Omer or Sporasub, which are quite reasonably priced. These are very nice guns - simple and sleek. In my opinion this would be a better option than going with a jbl or sea hornet. You can find some of these guns at various vendors including spearfishinggear.com

Lee

 

[gonetobaja]

Feign is right...

It may seem like more money in the beginning but you will save your self money in the long run by the sheer performance and durability of the Riffe gun. You will shoot more fish because of the smoother trigger system and when you are in the deep reaches of mexico you wont have to worry about breaking them. I run expeditions to Baja in Bahia Gonzaga and I carry 5 sizes of Riffe guns. I have never had one fail on me, except after shooting a 35lb+ fish who can bend your spearshafts.

The other guns will just leave you wondering what happened.



GTB
www.spearfishingvideos.com
www.gonetobaja.com

 

[Luis]

Hello guys!

Feign, gonetobaja and Czchecdiver ( Czchec...Maybe I made a typo on your name but you know who you are) Thanks a lot for your advice, it was really helpfull and I can't argue when 3 guys have the same opinion... Riffe. I was thinking seriously about it but the cheap bast... within me didn't allow me to buy it, but I'm convinced now and what you say is very truth, if I buy something cheap, maybe I'll be buying a nice one later, once that I wasted my money on the first one.

I want to abuse of your kindness again with another question... Does Riffe metal tech have the same "Great gun" feeling that teak ones have? I like very much the mid handle style, but those ones on wood are the most expensive of the series and metal tech looks very similar and cool, but do they feel like real riffes??

Let me know guys and thanks a lot for your time and kindness. Is great to have people like you helping the beginers.
Luis

 

[Pocoshower]

Hola Luis

I used some diferent kind of guns, and the guys are rigth. I used one Riffe last month and yes, It feels very good. Great gun. I been fishing with a Picasso last Octuber and It was good too.

So I'm in the move of geting something better now, just can't decide what gun I want (well mine is still working so I'm not in a hurry)

Let me know if you came to Baja, maybe we can go out for some fishes, maybe cook some fine fruit de mer, or share a cup of Baja wine.

Saludos

 

[dend76]

Definitely don't waste your money with any american style gun short of a Riffe. If you don't want to go too expensive, you may want to consider one of the competitor series. They aren's too expensive.

One thing you should be aware of however, is that while a 36 - 42 inch gun will be good for the rocks, it will in my opinion prove to be fairly inadequate in the blue.

Also, if this is your first gun, you should at least consider a euro style gun. While they lack the style of some of the teak guns, they are economically priced and easy to handle. While my prederred weapon would be a RA, you may want to consider a Picasso Cantury. It is an incredibly accurate gun of exceptional quality, all for about $200. If you are not ready to commit to the riffe, I would recommend you go with the picasso.

 

[feign]

Luis,

You bring up an interesting question about MT vs the teak and I think ultimately it is user preference. I will give you my opinion. I have both a MT and a Competitor, though I have used the competitor very little so far because it is quite new, so I can't give a full review. First of all, both are awesome. There are a couple things to consider: what is your primary conditions to hunt (visibility) and what terrain/types of fish etc. You said you want a 38-42 inch gun - which puts you in either a MT 1 or 2 OR a Competitor 1 or 2. I think these are good sizes for all-round inshore hunting type guns, unless you have tons of visibility all the time. These would not be likely suitable for blue water hunting though. Here are some things to consider:


Design and maintenance : MT guns are very durable. They feel indestructable. The stock is also a little thicker on the MT over the Comp. The Comp. is also very durable, but much lighter and more agile feeling. Both guns require good rinsing, but the teak wood needs oiling, so a bit more maintenance. The nice thing about the teak though is that basically everything like muzzle and trigger mech. area are all carved out of the wood stock, it is much simpler and more elegant. The MT has more screws and attachments to come to it's final form and therefore requires overhaul cleaning in the long term, to clean out parts like where the muzzle attaches to the stock of the gun. Both have plus and minus here.



Maneuverablity and Weight: The MT are much heavier guns, which contributes to there durability. The MT 1 will sink with the shaft out. I believe the MT 2 is supposed to be neutral with the shaft out. Only the #4 or 5 MT will float with the shaft out. This is a big plus for the Competitor because at all sizes it is buoyant with the shaft out. This is very nice when you are on a dive after you have shot the gun and are taking the fish off or whatever and you can release the gun and retrieve it on the surface, whereas the MT could be on the bottom getting sand in the trigger mechanism. You can get floater wings, but I think this would just clutter a shorter gun. On the other hand the mid handle will be easier to swing to a target because of the pivot. I don't think in a short gun this will make a lot of difference, also the Competitor is much lighter and agile by nature so would likely balance out. Overall, I think the competitor is advantageous.


Range: depending on your vis this should help you determine between a #1 or #2 gun. You need to see past the end of your shaft in your worst conditions. Remember that because the MT is a midhandle that the Competitor has a longer reach for the same size gun. Therefore, from your line of site you actually have a good half foot or more of range from line of site in a Com #1 compared to MT #1.


Shaft set-up: Remember that the Standard riffe set-up guns (thick shaft with large 2-bard head) are intended for taking down big, big game. In most inshore hunting scenarios this is not necessary. You should consider the hawaiian flopper set-up. I would get a 9/32" hawaiian shaft with an Extra Band (3 - 9/16" total) and 2 Wraps of line (the hawaiian set-up normally comes with one). Therefore, you will have the same Range of the Standard, but much cheaper. You don't need a threaded 5/16" shaft unless you are spearing monster fish, like you would bluewater hunting. Since this gun will not likely be a bluewater gun for you anyways...go with a hawaiian set-up. This shaft has two advantages: It is lighter, faster and more accurate in the flight and two, the single barb is easier to take off the fish. Also, remember that if you are around a lot of rocks with either gun, you can power down by using 1 or 2 bands (or use different band # and thickness configurations) - all benefits of the riffe.

Overall, I would have to say I like the feeling of the Teak gun more eventhough both are great. If the mid handle is very important to you then get the MT, but I don't think the advantage is that great in guns these size. If you wanted a #2 then you could get the Comp 2X (for a few bucks more), which has the 3 inch butt. This will give a bit of the simulation of the mid handle style (no change in trigger position though) and will help with hip loading. Hope this helps,

Lee

 

[unirdna]

You've been given some very good advise, Luis. I would add that the reason JBL and Rhino guns are generally frowned upon lies in their design. The bungie cord is, well, imho, an inferior design. They have a metal washer that catches the on the spear (on its way out the muzzle), and the bunge is attached to this washer. If the loud clank of metal-on-metal wasn't bad enough, the drag is enough to make you cry when you see how fast the shaft decelerates. Riffe, Wong, and Alexander are the three American-made spearguns (that I know of) that do not use this washer mechanism. Rather, the bungie attaches to the top of the spear and the muzzle is open (ala euro-style, although most euro guns attach the bungie cord to the back of the spear).

Now, this is NOT to say the JBJ's and Rhino's don't have their place. If you are firing between two beady eyes staring back at you from a dark cave, a JBL is a great gun to have in hand; because you won't hesitate to use the gun as a crowbar to pry that sucker out once you stick him. Rocky, low-viz, water is an ideal place for such a gun. But out in the blue (where you are, you lucky chump), a JBJ just doesn't fit the bill.

If you can't afford a Riffe, I recommend getting a Riffe . If you can't afford that, a Rob Allen is a hell-uv-a Euro.

Get a paper route if you have to, but don't skimp on this purchase or you will wind up using your new gun to replace that broken leg on your dining room table.

Ted

 

[calispearo]

I have a RIFFE, Railgun (Rabitech and just ordered 2 Rob Allens) and a JBL.

THE-JBL-IS-A-HORRIBLE-GUN. Period.

Please don't think i'm being a gun snob or anything like that. I think there are tons of great companies out there. RIFFE, Rabitech, Rob Allen, OMER, Piccasso, Sporasub, Wong, .. just to name a few. Choose from guns that are constructed well. It's better to pay a little more and have your purcahse last and enjoy it. Then save 50$ or more and never use the thing and have to buy something else later and spend th emoney again, if you already haven't given up on the sport by then.

-Mike Crossen

 

[feign]

Ted,
I think that Rob Allen are a South African gun, but I assume you probably meant Euro style.

 

[unirdna]

Ted,
I think that Rob Allen are a South African gun, but I assume you probably meant Euro style.

You assumed correctly, Lee

 

[Luis]

Hello guys!

Men! I'm astonished by the enthusiasm in this group, thanks for the advice. I have more now than I asked for in the begining. Great... I'll be a Riffe user soon, no more questions about it.
But more and different questions arise based on your advice :duh ... Now I'll get something bigger than 40 Inches (Thanks dend76!), I'm thinking about a 55" (I prefer to "Overkill" a 5 pound trigger fish or grupper instead of shooting a YF Tuna in the blue with a 40", something inadequate but for sure I wouldn't stop trying it given the chance). Ok here comes the question:
A 55" midhandle is out of my budget, but I don't mind getting a 55"MT or a similar size from the standart series. I'll be hunting 50% rocky bottom and 50% in the blue (That's the reason to try to get the most all-around gun).
Is that a question of personal preferences, or anyone can give me arguments to choose a gun? (Please don't kill each other :ko , I've seen that sometimes this kind of questions in this great forum creates almost international incidents )
Feign, your reply was great thanks for the time and effort,unirdna and calispearo thanks to you too, excellent coments and nice to hear that JBL stinks, from somebody that has a JBL, a Riffe and a rabitech.
Pocoshower, see you soon, well maybe in a few months, Guadalajara is not very near to Baja but I'll pay a visit to that great place and we'll get some fish and wine for sure.
Gonetobaja... I'll get the DVD this week, looks like a good first buy for a newby like me.

Best regards, I hope to hear from you soon!

Luis.

 

[calispearo]

RIFFE is a great gun. it's well made and has one of if not THE strongest trigger mech on the market.

I"v had the privlage to have met most of the RIFFE's and been to the Dive Factory. There great people and a real family that cares about what they do. Not a large corporation that cuts costs to bring youa cheaper gun **CHEAPER** being the key word. You really do get what you pay for.

The RIFFE may be very expensive but after just looking at one in person you get a feel for the craftsmanship. It's a beautifull gun. They cure all of there guns in the rafters at the factory with care for a period of time. Nothing is rushed and i'v seen this in person.

With that being said, if you can't afford one you might want to consider a Euro gun. I'm partial tot he South African Railguns. I think there a little more suited to our conditions in mexico and California (larger fish and harsher conditions then the Med.)

The perfect choice would be the RIFFE though. It's made for our conditions and Jay RIFFE frequently dives Mexico.

I ended up getting the Mid Handel Teak Hawaiian# I got it with a 9\32nd shaft instead of the standard 5\16ths and i shoot it with two 5\8 bands instead of 3 9\16s with a Hawaiian flopper. I chose this configuration because i was going after smaller faster fish. Now i think i'm going to buy a 5\16th shaft with the rock tip to go after halibut.

I would definetly not go any less then a 55inch gun (comparable to the No Ka Oi model in size) Maybe even bigger (Think Island gun only in MT or in Standard series) Take a look at the MT or the Mid or the standard. The Competitor series are to thin to be used in those lengths. It won't damage the gun at all (there very well made) but it might be a little underweighted for what your doing.

Your going to want a long gun. Get th elongest gun you can handel (around the Islands size) for the clear water. Remember that since RIFFE guns are measured in total length it's not going to be as big as a 50 inch euro gun. Without the shaft it's a lot shorter then you'd think.

Happy hunting,

- Mike Crossen

 

[feign]

I am concerned that by buying a huge bluewater gun as Luis's first gun might not be the best advice. I am not an expert, nor do I dive in your conditions down in Mexico, but I believe it is important to not get something that will do everything when taking about dive equipment. I think a #N or #I would be a lot to handle with loading and control etc. for a first gun. Also, going out to the blue water can be a dangerous task for a new spearfisherman. I don't doubt that you are a great diver though Luis. It requires more complex gear set-ups and can result in lose of gear and life if things are not done properly. Why not consider a more versatile and manageable gun for your first gun (2 or number 3 max) - this kind of gun will always be useful. Then hunt a lot with it in the rocky bottom etc. getting use to tactics and skills. Later down the road venture into the bigger game and get the appropriate set-up and gun at that point.

Lee

 

[Amphibious]

I have a RIFFE, Railgun (Rabitech and just ordered 2 Rob Allens) and a JBL.

THE-JBL-IS-A-HORRIBLE-GUN. Period.

I have taken more fish with my JBL NW Special then all my other guns combined. both in the the dark waters of the Pacific northwest or the deep warm blueones of the persian gulf/red sea. if I'm going to be hunting around reef or rocks, where I need a tough gun that will keep on working after a serious shit kicking I will ALWAYS grab the JBL. Poor range, ugly, but has serious stopping power and can take a beating. don;t discount these guns. I will say a other then their short guns (notably the Custom and the NW Special) the rest are a supreme waste of money with the freedive hunter in mind. a weekend warroir bubble blower would probably love them. smae gest for the Sea Hornet and the AB Billers.

A fine peice of fish slaying engineering like the Riffe, RA, or Omer will preform to much high standards.

 

[calispearo]

Amphibious, you are right. I should have specified. JBL's robustness make it a great gun that you can slam around as a scuba diver. It comes with a thick shaft with lots of stopping power. However, they are underpowered and as a freediver there extreemly noisy and when shooting at range will prety much be a waste of time. There negativly boyant and still negative when fired.

However, i have never used any of the higher end JBL's and can't really speak for them. Only what i have heard. I have only used the 38, Magnum, Carbine, and Super Carbine. As well as the old Voit guns which are pretty much the exact same thing after JBL aquired them.

A JBL is not a gun i would reccomend to any freediver and wouldent e a good beginer gun at all. THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION HOWEVER. Amphibious is someone i respect in these forums. If he has good luck with JBL then i believe him. He has used models that i haven't and has a lot of experience with spearguns.

But for high visibility conditions such as where your hunting it's probly not the best choice. It's more for SCUBA.

Feign, Although you are right about louis getting involved in bluewater right away ( i agree with you) the guns i suggested were not intended for bluewater, but for high visibility reef hunting. Where he is hunting has exceptionally high visibility. I wouldent necessary go with the #B but i would go with the #N and wouldent even rule out the #I for sizing. In the midhandel there still extreemly easy to track with and the lengthis not really noticible. The Metal Tech uses the same sizes as the Mid handel series **

-Mike

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Get the Riffe, or get a Euro style gun such as a Rob Allen or an Aimrite rail gun. The Rob Allens used to have a huge price advantage as a result of currency exchange rates, but the weakening of the dollar has made the Aimrites cheaper than Rob Allen now.

If you get a Riffe, get teak rather than Metal Tech. The Metal Tech sinks unless you add expensive wings, and that is not acceptable for freediving. Also, if you want to attach a reel or change to a different brand of reel in the future, you can drill holes in the wood anywhere you want. With the Metal Tech, you have to have Riffe put in the inserts before he ships it. Aluminum doesn't last forever, but the teak will as long as you rub some teak oil or tung oil on it every year or so, and even that may not be absolutely necessary. I've seen Riffe guns that were bleached white and still going strong.

 

[feign]

Mike,

Is the vis in that area where Luis is diving always exceptional? I guess I have a hard time believing in such a paradise as my visibility can sometimes get as bad as 1-2 meters.

 

[Luis]

Hello guys!
All your advice has been great and I think that based on that I have a winner... A Riffe #3 From the standart series. I was thinking about a MT but I'll be freediving and a gun that sinks may be a little annoying, and also if I want to add a reel I'll no be able to do it myself (Thanks for that piece of advice Bill!).
The visibility is most of the time pretty good and the water temperature is great too in the waters of puerto vallarta (Is anybody getting a bit jalous?? :vangry ).

I think that the gun is a bit big for a newby and I see that it caused some concerns (thanks guys!). But I've always learned the hard way, and biting more than I can chew is pretty much the story of my life (First shotgun a 12 gauge, first motorcycle a 1200 C.C., first Girlfriend... A stripper -This last one maybe the most shocking of all experiences, specially if you consider that I was educated in a catholic school and was raised in a very old fashioned and traditional mexican familly-, and so on... Of course all this "First experiences" left some bruises and scares on me in more ways than one :duh ) I think that I'll try a medium large gun to begin with... I'll be extra carefull and I'll not shoot anything bigger than I can handle, I was in some kind of underwater rodeo once ago when I speared a large triggerfish near the tail with my old nemrod, it gave me a respect lesson that I'll not forget even having a powerfull riffe in my hands.

Now one more question... I'll be in San Diego in about 2 more weeks, but I'll be in a rush and just for one day, does anybody can recomend me a good store where I can buy a riffe and take a good look to good variety of accesories. I'll not be able to take the time to visit many stores. Any advice on this will be appreciated, or ...should I just buy it via internet?
Best regards and I promess to send a pic of my first piece of fish with the new gun... I couldn't get any better advice than I got from all of you, thanks a lot and Happy hunting! And if anyone of you comes to Puerto Vallarta let me know, I'll be more than glad to share some fish and tequila.

 

[feign]

biting more than I can chew is pretty much the story of my life (First shotgun a 12 gauge, first motorcycle a 1200 C.C., first Girlfriend... A stripper

Classic...I was laughing my head off Luis.




www.spearfishinggear.com is a good online riffe dealer - don't know about stores in SD though.