Riffe, JBL or sea Hornet???

[Bill McIntyre]

Luis,

Since you indicated that you have decided on a teak gun and also said you might want to use a reel some time, permit me to offer something else to consider.

I'm wishy-washy and have switched back and forth between a break-way float line and a reel. Also, if you travel with a gun you might find it convenient to remove the reel. If you use the standard wood screws that Riffe, for one, sells with his reel, then screwing them in and out might eventually tear up the holes. So I use stainless steel inserts that screw into the gun and stay there, and then use stainless steel machine screws to attach and detach the reel. The appropriate size inserts for the Riffe reel are the smallest ones sold at West Marine, and they take a 10-32 machine screw. One inch is the appropriate length for the Riffe reel and these inserts. I'll attach a photo of the inserts, and a photo of a gun with the inserts showing.

I'll admit that I may just be anal about taking wood screws in and out, but I just thought I'd mention the inserts for your consideration.

 

[Amphibious]

but a 12ga is a perfect first shotgun! mine was anyways

 

[calispearo]

Sounds good Louis. I think you'll enjoy your gun. In fact i know you will.
And feign, Vis in Mexico (especially his area) is worlds better then in Canada. I lived in Canada for around 15 years. I'v been all over it too and never found an area with vis as nice as Southern Mexico. I'd kill for his vis.......literally..... j\k.

 

[gonetobaja]

Luis,

In my opinion you might want to reconsider your choice of Riffe gun. The MT #3 is an excellent all around gun. It is easy to turn and has power enough to tap even a nice Pargo or Sardinera.

The video has an entire section on that gun and how it is used, as well as footage from the manufacturing facility where it is made and how. Bill is right about the difference between teak and Aluminum however if I was gonna choose one gun it would be a MT#3. It is less expensive than the Hawaian but it is the same gun(pretty much). I have added poly wings on both of my #3 models and have had great success with them. I never spearfish with a reel because the fish down in Mex can still take your gear, so the reel thing dosent apply to me, however alot of people use reels and get huge fish.

The place to get your Riffe gear in San Diego is called J and J dive and Kite. It is also called James and Joseph Co. they are located in shelter island. You want to speak with Mark. He will give you a good deal and set up your gun to perfection.

Also with a dragline and bouy you wont worry about loosing your gun as much. When you get a big one on make sure you loop a band over your shoulder when you are working on your fish. Just because a gun floats, dosent mean you cant loose it. I have found may of my Riffe guns that a customer dropped by looking for a small bright red dot in the water.

I would also go with an Ice pick tip to make your chances of landing a big one even better.

Let me know what you think of the video!

GTB
www.spearfishingvideos.com
www.gonetobaja.com

 

[feign]

Believe me Cali, I know he has better vis than Canada. We rival for some of the worst vis in the world I think. I just didn't know if the vis was consistent to always allow the use of a large gun. I would kill for his vis too.

 

[Luis]

Hello Everybody...

I seemed pretty sure about my choice, but when someone like gonetobaja suggests something different really makes me think twice.

The issue of the day... The MT#3 looks good to me and has a very good shooting range but I wasn't sure about it because it sinks... The floats look very cool and solve the problem... But maybe I'll be paying more than the Standart series #3 that already floats... I'm I right? (I couldn't find how much the floats costs in the internet). I really like the MT, but if I'll be paying something like $100.00 for an accesory to make it float, maybe is better to go directly for the mid handle... and that sends me back to the very begining... Not spending too much for my first gun. :head

I'll start with the gun/float/float line set up, the reel is something that maybe I'll get later on (Anyway Bill thanks for the advice on the screws to attach the reel to a teak model without stressing out the wood ) so, lets not consider it the main issue to make my choice right now.

I hope to hear your comments soon on the MT#3 Vs Standart series #3 case, I cannot believe how enriching this forum is getting, and please don't take my questioning like a challenge to your experience, I'm just a newby full of questions. Usually I learn by the crash and burn method :crutch , and for a change I'm having the chance of interacting with experienced and skillfull people before getting into a new sport. Usually I'm the first guy that tries something new, I learn the hard way and then I invite and teach my friends, I'm sure that it's going to happen again and at least a couple of them are going to join me in this. But now I'm getting the benefit of your experience and your will to share it.

Have a great week!

 

[gonetobaja]

The main difference is between the competitor and the MT is going to be the distance from your handle to the end of the gun. With the midhandle style of the MT you get a shorter distance with all of the power. Another thing you might want to think about is that you can upgrade a MT slowly as you get your money. You can add things such as Poly wings and an aluminum muzzle to hold bigger more powerfull bands. Theres not much I can realy say bad about the competitor its just that I prefer a mid handle style of gun.

When you get a chance to look at them hold each one and see which one feels more natural for you.

Remember with all of the advice you can get on a board like this, the best choice is the one that you are comfortable with.

I can hunt in very bad vis with a MT#3 because of its shorter handle to tip, and still have some reach out and touch something when the vis clears up and a big snapper is sitting at the edge of my range. As far as a float you can use a boogie board and some floating nylon line and save some money. You should probably use a float with any gun unless you are using a reel.

Again all of this is just my own demented opinion. :duh
GTB

 

[Luis]

Gone to baja!...

Great advice! Full of logic and convincing.Besides the versatility of the MT#3, the capability of adding accesories according to my budget and experience are reasons that I cannot argue with and make the gun very atractive.

Thanks a lot and happy hunting!
Luis.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Theres not much I can really say bad about the competitor its just that I prefer a mid handle style of gun.

I concur about mid handle guns, but isn't there a mid handle teak gun comparable to the MT-3?

As far as adding accessories as your budget allows, I would think that you would be forced to add wings immediately if it sinks without them. I can't imagine using a sinking gun while freediving. Being on the bottom trying to untangle a fish from kelp or rocks and having the gun fall down on me would be a real treat.

 

[icarus pacific]

While I agree with Dale on the merits of an MT gun, it's only because if I had to have gun(s) for clients with dubious skills, care and maintenance included, the MT's are tanks. If however the gun is for you and yourself, the Standard series guns will not only work very, very well as a freedive specific gun, but also if and when you decide to use it while on SCUBA, which is about the only way this old guy will pop a big pargo anymore.

A teak gun requires the exact same care as does a MT, that being give it a rinse and eyeball it the day before you take it out, don't use it as a crowbar and keep the bands out of the Sun as much as you can without ruining your day. You wanna rub a little tung oil oil on it every month or so, fine, but my Island is a bone bleached white that is still straight and hit's whatever I point it at.

Go for the inserts on the wood gun as per Bill's photos. The wood will get all buggered up otherwise, and potting a nut in wood to hold the machine screws is a cheap way to mount and lose your reel and piss you and me off.

 

[Erik]

. Being on the bottom trying to untangle a fish from kelp or rocks and having the gun fall down on me would be a real treat.

No worries with my JBL: it always beats me to the bottom. I take 4lbs of the belt when using it rofl
Looking foward to trying the new T-20 that's been sitting in the closet for the last few months.
Cheers,
Erik Y.

 

[icarus pacific]

better living through JBL's

Glad to hear something's coming out of the closet up there. :girlie

 

[calispearo]

**Snap!** **Dems be fighting words! j\k

Bill has a great idea about the screws.

I would always go teak with the RIFFE's if you can afford it. The Standard is a great gun. Here are some diferences betwen a Mid handel and a standard....

MIDHANDEL PRO'S AND CONS.
Pro- Mid handel allows you to go with a longer length for better visibility **think power and range** It will allow you to swing it beter and track faster fish easier.

Con- Learn you brace it properly or it will knock some teeth out if you get an island and power it up, lol. **it's not that bad** Bt the Con is there will be some more recoil. All you have to do is adapt a technique for holding and extending the gun. I'll take some pictures with mine if you want.

PRO: The Mid Handel and MT hae a nicer cushion handel that feels\looks a lot nicer.

PRO: The MT\Mid-handel has the strongest safty mech on the market.



STANDARD PROS AND CONS:

PRO: You can track it like a euro gun (some people prefer this. I'm undecided. I like my railguns and i love mid handel hawaiian. I think the hawaiian tracks a lot better.

PRO : Unline the MT IT WILL FLOAT AND FLOAT BEAUTIFULLY!!! Which to me is very important. Especially when freediving.

Pro: It's fun to oil your gun in the off season and beautify it!

Pro: If your going with the nautical theme you can hang it in a room when not in use without the bands. (RIFFE bands can be removed in secounds)

CON: harder to track with then the MT or Mid Handel

CON: The safty **while still great** is not as solid as the mid-handel or MT. The MT\Mid Handel saftyis probly the strongest on the market.

In short, i would get wood no matter what. If you can afford it, spring for the Mid-handel. If you can't, get the standard. either way you'll be happy.

for what you'l be hunting and since your not going after halibut probly you might want to forgo the rock-tip that it comes with and the threaded shaft and opt for a hawaiian flopper. Maybe even a 9\32nd. **you can choose your shaft**

-Mike

 

[gonetobaja]

I have to agree with the wood over the aluminum. The Hawian is the best all around gun to have if its your only gun. the only issue is the price between the MT# 3 and the Hawian. I also have a few of the mid-handle teak guns and they are just as durable as the MT guns. The wood guns also have a lighter feel in the water. All of them have a rest tab on the shaft for easy loading. I love having rest tabs on my spearshafts to load easy. I know, I know rest tabs are for Pus@#es but when you can load easy you can load fast. Some times a fast load on your gun can mean the difference between a Fillet and a story.

Im still gonna stick with my Mid-handle addict stance. If you can spring for the money in the start get yourself the mid-handle hawian other wise the MT3 offers a more economical alternative. Also all of the new MT3 come automaticaly with the camo green anodized finish which looks like some abstract artist worked on it and breaks up the outline of the gun somewhat.

The part about the recoil of the midhandle guns is definately no joke. I dont think I know a person that has a nicely powered gun that has not mashed their lips into their teeth from not respecting the power of a good speargun. I have done it a few times, when I think Im Jouque Cousteau and start thinking Im cool is usualy when I forget about the recoil. I havent done it in about 4 years now. The last time was with a Riffe Baja on a aim to the left shot over my left arm looking down the gun with my right elbow bent....I thought it broke my teeth out at first but was happy(?) to find out it was just smashed and bleeding lips and gums. It sucks because when you get back to the boat everyone knows what you did. And it makes it very hard to whistle. :duh

I have to admit I have missed fish because I only had one hand on my gun and the fish bolted as I raised the other. Guess its better to miss fish than teeth...

If you get in the habit of putting a band over your shoulder after each shot you wont loose your gun(hopefully). Although getting advice from me on loosing gear is the biggest joke you can make rofl rofl rofl rofl I think Im responsible (in some way or another) for enough gear to outfit two divers from head to toe in the last 6 months. In fact, I cant think of a piece of gear that I havent lost..... :thankyou

My favorite is dive knives.


GTB

 

[Roan]

Luis,

The place to get your Riffe gear in San Diego is called J and J dive and Kite. It is also called James and Joseph Co. they are located in shelter island. You want to speak with Mark. He will give you a good deal and set up your gun to perfection.

www.spearfishingvideos.com
www.gonetobaja.com

You might want to call ahead, I was in there this weekend and his father told me Mark is in Brazil for at least a week or 10 days. If you go when Mark is not there you can still buy the stuff, but you won't get his expertise... his parents don't know that much. The shop is on Harbor Island Drive, water is right across the street.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I shot this fish today and it was a real cluster f**k in the kelp. If my gun had not been floating, even thought it was hard find in the thick canopy, I seriously don't think I could have landed the fish. Reel line and shooting line was all wrapped up and going from one column of kelp to another. It was bad enough as it was, but if the gun had been sinking down into the mess, it would have been far beyond my capabilities.

I can't overemphasize how strongly I feel about a freediver's gun floating after the shaft is out of it.

 

[Luis]

Great!!

I already had as much advice as I could process :duh , Teak is great but expensive, MT offers all the advantages of a midhandle and cheaper... but it sinks... But you can buy floats...It will float that way... But has a "camo" look not as beautifull as wood... And so on... Jesus Christ!!!!!!! Too many issues to deal with just for trying to save some bucks.

THE WINNER ... Midhandle, Hawaiian. Maybe more expensive but according to your wise advice it seems to have the best of both worlds. Midhandle tracking capacity, positive buoyancing, great power, and beautyfull teak looks and feeling. A bit more expensive but I think that there's no chance that I get disappointed with a gun like this.

I think that I'll be happy with this model, I'll buy it online and hopefully I'll be hunting with it by the end of this month.

Hey... Do you think that now that I know what gun to buy I'll be out of here?... No way... This is just the very beginning... Next question:

Considering that I'll be shooting at Tunas, Amberjacks (Not sure if exactly amberjack but pretty similar, from that familly) grouppers, parrotfish and maybe an ocassional barracuda with a float/float line setup. (I'll try no to shoot anything bigger that 15-20 pounds at least on my first expeditions) What is the best shaft and tip for that kind of game. I think that I never wrote about the fish that swims by in the places where I can hunt, now you have that piece. Hope to hear your comments soon, specially something like hawaiian flopper vs :ko threaded shaft with 2-barb tips.

Best regards and happy hunting!!

Once again thanks a lot guys I havent shooted my gun yet but spearfishing is already being a great experience thanks to your feedback and cool attitude.

 

[icarus pacific]

First time and we're talking about tuna, already? :hmm

Seriously to your question(s)... for the fish you describe and the area you're in, I'd go with a 5/16" shaft for the added rigidity when that grouper or pargo takes it into a hole to turn it into a pretzel. The added mass, and I don't know how much that is, will let whatever you hit know you mean business by hopefully stopping it for a bit. 5/16" shafts will normally come with a threaded end so you can have the luxury of being able to have a few tips for different applications. While you can get 5/16" shafts with single or Hawaiian floppers, they're more the rarity than the rule and the power that a Hawaiian will generate will take the usual Hawaiian flopper shaft, a 9/32" and cause you so much shaft whip that you'll give up spearing for the fish laughing at you.

Tuna will require a slip tip unless you're big on buying shafts. You'll also want to go with a 3/8 shaft for the range and punch, nice thing about the Riffe's is you can goi either way in the open tracks. A grouper will hold a double flopper rock tip. An AJ, yellowtail and 'cuda will all die with either, with a yellowtail's softer flesh calling for the slip tip.

When you go buy your gun, get an extra shaft from the start.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I think I'll have to differ with Sven on shaft thickness. A 5/16" shaft is too heavy for the Hawaiian unless you power down by using fewer, thinner, or longer bands. When you pull the trigger, all the bands want to do is shorten, and they don't care whether they push the shaft forward or push the gun backward. The slight mass of that gun relative to a 5/16" shaft causes it to recoil. Since your hand resisting the recoil is below the plane of the bands on a mid-handle gun, the gun rotates around your hand, the muzzle rises, and the rear of the shaft is pushed up as it leave the gun, causing your shot to be low. The standard 5/16" shaft in the No Ka Oi and Island guns is even too heavy and they also suffer from muzzle flip. I have not owned a No Ka Oi, but guys who brought them on my boat went nuts trying to hit anything until they put on muzzle wings or went to a thinner shaft. And I did own an Island for years and it had a big problem shooting low until I put on muzzle wings. Others who own the Island solved it be going to a 9/32" shaft. I even know one guy who uses 9/32" shafts in his Riffe Blue Water.

The 54 pound fish in my avatar was shot with a 9/32" shaft.

 

[gonetobaja]

I never shoot anything but slip tips, no matter what I am hunting for. Riffe Icepick and AB biller makes a good one also that can take some abuse from hunting around rocks. A slip tip gives me the extra edge for my poorly places shots. Even though I always try to hit right it seems like almost every trip I am thanking god for my slip tip.

I agree with Bill Mac. A lighter shaft tends to add less recoil and has more speed. It seems to me that any grouper over 30lbs is gonna bend your shaft, its a normal thing to happen. Take the advice on an extra shaft.

You are gonna love your gun! Great choice!

GTB