Salvimar Predathor Vuoto 100

[Stamatis]

Hi all! This is my first post. Please excuse my bad english.
I am interested in the Vuoto gun but for some reason everybody in Greece is mad about Mares, Omer and Sporasub (In that particular order). None of the new Salvimar models are sold in our stores, only Vintair. So, I would like to know if there have been any issues about the gun, and generaly, whether it is reliable or not.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hello and welcome,
The gun is reliable. Just get some extra vacuum seals (about E9 for a pack of three) as they wear out. Also, consider getting a better slider depending on the size of fish you'll be shooting. Possibly an extra spear, if you feel like it.

As for where to get it: Scubastore often has good pricing on this gun and will ship to Greece without VAT. But please also check out www.edosub.it, too as he will likely ship to you and is a real person vs. the huge supermarket machine of Scubastore. Edo knows everything about pneumatics, ships fast, replies to emails pretty asap and is just a real pleasure to do business with.

 

[Stamatis]

Hello and welcome,
The gun is reliable. Just get some extra vacuum seals (about E9 for a pack of three) as they wear out. Also, consider getting a better slider depending on the size of fish you'll be shooting. Possibly an extra spear, if you feel like it.

As for where to get it: Scubastore often has good pricing on this gun and will ship to Greece without VAT. But please also check out www.edosub.it, too as he will likely ship to you and is a real person vs. the huge supermarket machine of Scubastore. Edo knows everything about pneumatics, ships fast, replies to emails pretty asap and is just a real pleasure to do business with.

Thank you for your response! Well, now I have a new set of questions!
1. Reliable by my standards means that the gun gives me no trouble, as long as I maintain it correctly. Is that the case?
2. Do the vacuum seals of all similar dry barrel guns need replacing that often? And how often is that? I mean, does it need replacement after, say, 20 shots?
3. This Italiano has very good prices, only trouble is, I dont know Italian, and that is giving me a hard time!
4. Seems if I do get this toy, I will have to service it myself. Do you think it is possible?

 

[foxfish]

I don't know much about the Salvimar Predathor Vuoto 100 but I have not read any bad reports so I assume it is pretty reliable.
I change the O ring seals on my most used dry barrel gun once a season, about 30-50 shots but they normally still look ok.
All I do is wash the gun in fresh water after every dive, perhaps I have been lucky but my Asso 115 with a Tomba dry barrel kit is around 10 years old & still works very well with no major maintenance at all.
I buy replacement O rings from a locale shop - 4 for a £1 (about a Euro)

 

[Bobc]

Just a thought but aren't only band guns were legal in greece?
When I recently holidayed in greece I researched prior to going and was told pneumatic guns were not legal in Greece, might be worth checking

 

[Diving Gecko]

Edo speaks English, so you can just email him, too

The seal for the Vuoto is a proprietary one and not a regular o-ring. Though they look like oil seals I don't think you can find them elsewhere, I have tried without luck.
I am not sure how often the seal needs to be replaced, I have heard different things. I had one that got busted after about 40 shots but another one has not been changed yet after at least double that and shows no signs of needing replacement.

As for seals for the rest of the gun, you can pick up a full set for about Euro 5-8 (also from Edo) and do your own annual service or just wait until you have a problem. Might take a decade, might not. But don't worry. It is not difficult to do and lots of guys here can talk you through it.

As for whether pneumatic guns are illegal in Greece, I wouldn't know. They are in Mexico, I hear.

 

[Stamatis]

Just a thought but aren't only band guns were legal in greece?
When I recently holidayed in greece I researched prior to going and was told pneumatic guns were not legal in Greece, might be worth checking

Pneumatic spearguns are not illegal in greece. Maybe aomeone got lost in translation!

 

[Stamatis]

Edo speaks English, so you can just email him, too

The seal for the Vuoto is a proprietary one and not a regular o-ring. Though they look like oil seals I don't think you can find them elsewhere, I have tried without luck.
I am not sure how often the seal needs to be replaced, I have heard different things. I had one that got busted after about 40 shots but another one has not been changed yet after at least double that and shows no signs of needing replacement.

As for seals for the rest of the gun, you can pick up a full set for about Euro 5-8 (also from Edo) and do your own annual service or just wait until you have a problem. Might take a decade, might not. But don't worry. It is not difficult to do and lots of guys here can talk you through it.

As for whether pneumatic guns are illegal in Greece, I wouldn't know. They are in Mexico, I hear.

I think I will give the Italian a try. If the muzle seal is absent, and sea water enters the barrel, will that cause malfunction at some point?

 

[Diving Gecko]

You'll will likely notice if the seals breaks as the shot will be very low on power.
Most airguns have flooded barrels already, so the piston has to push out the water plus the shaft during the shot - sealing the muzzle, which is what a vacuum gun does, means there is no water in the barrel so the shot is more efficient. So, if the seal breaks, water will flood the barrel like in a regular gun, but regular guns have big openings in the muzzle to help evacuate the water during the shot. A vacuum muzzle doesn't have these holes so it's hard for the water to get out and hence, the shot will be very, very slow.
Some speculate that this could force sea water behind the piston and into the inner part of the gun. I don't know if this is a real danger or not. I did have one seal fail and took 2-3 shots after that. Later on, when I disassembled the gun I didn't find any water.

You can easily unscrew the front part of the Vuoto muzzle to inspect the seal without depressurizing the gun. So, if you make a habit of doing that after each dive, that should be more than enough.

In short, don't worry about wearing out a seal, it'll be fine. You can even change them in the water if you need to and carry a spare with you.

 

[Stamatis]

I just talked over the phone with the Salvimar's official dealer in Greece. The kid that answered the phone said: Nope, we don't sell that! Muzzle seals and o rings? I don't know!
I talked to another guy that services airguns, and he says he is not pro dry muzzles, they are not trustworthy. He also said that sometimes the Salvimar sometimes don't engage (arm) when you load it. He said Seac is very good.
So, the know-how about the gun in Greece is next to nothing... Looks like if I do this, I will have to import stuff and do everything myself...
Should I go with a safer choice? ....rats...

 

[Stamatis]

I just talked over the phone with the Salvimar's official dealer in Greece. The kid that answered the phone said: Nope, we don't sell that! Muzzle seals and o rings? I don't know!
I talked to another guy that services airguns, and he says he is not pro dry muzzles, they are not trustworthy. He also said that sometimes the Salvimar sometimes don't engage (arm) when you load it. He said Seac is very good.
So, the know-how about the gun in Greece is next to nothing... Looks like if I do this, I will have to import stuff and do everything myself...
Should I go with a safer choice? ....rats...

Edo speaks English, so you can just email him, too

The seal for the Vuoto is a proprietary one and not a regular o-ring. Though they look like oil seals I don't think you can find them elsewhere, I have tried without luck.
I am not sure how often the seal needs to be replaced, I have heard different things. I had one that got busted after about 40 shots but another one has not been changed yet after at least double that and shows no signs of needing replacement.

As for seals for the rest of the gun, you can pick up a full set for about Euro 5-8 (also from Edo) and do your own annual service or just wait until you have a problem. Might take a decade, might not. But don't worry. It is not difficult to do and lots of guys here can talk you through it.

As for whether pneumatic guns are illegal in Greece, I wouldn't know. They are in Mexico, I hear.

Wow this guy replies really fast! Its 33.50 posting... thats ok for now but expensive for o rings

 

[Diving Gecko]

There are basically two sets of o-rings.
One is the vacuum seals at the front. Different companies have different approaches to this. Some use simple, traditional o-rings, some use more of an oil-seal looking design. Salvimar's are their own strange size and I have spent a long time looking for an industrial made alternative but can not find one.

The second set of o-rings is a pack containing all the o-rings used inside the airgun (except for the vacuum seal at the front). I know it is overpriced but you may only need one such set every other year. Some airguns have gone many years without never being serviced. Some people service their guns and change the seals once a year (not difficult to do yourself). Again, there a few o-rings and parts in this set that you can not source from third parties but Euro 5.90 is cheaper than changing bands on a bandgun.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the gun. Popgun Pete here can tell you that the gun is based on a very old design, and the inner workings should be sound. As opposed to the Mares Evo HF v1 which have had reported issues with the line release the only thing we have heard of with the PredaThor is that the shaft slider was brittle in the beginning. The have since made a better slider.

 

[Bobc]

Pneumatic spearguns are not illegal in greece. Maybe aomeone got lost in translation!

Apologies, I enquired with a diving tour operator and was told they were, could have taken mine then!

 

[Stamatis]

Apologies, I enquired with a diving tour operator and was told they were, could have taken mine then!

It is illegal to do ANY kind of spearfishing using scuba gear!

 

[Stamatis]

There are basically two sets of o-rings.
One is the vacuum seals at the front. Different companies have different approaches to this. Some use simple, traditional o-rings, some use more of an oil-seal looking design. Salvimar's are their own strange size and I have spent a long time looking for an industrial made alternative but can not find one.

The second set of o-rings is a pack containing all the o-rings used inside the airgun (except for the vacuum seal at the front). I know it is overpriced but you may only need one such set every other year. Some airguns have gone many years without never being serviced. Some people service their guns and change the seals once a year (not difficult to do yourself). Again, there a few o-rings and parts in this set that you can not source from third parties but Euro 5.90 is cheaper than changing bands on a bandgun.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy the gun. Popgun Pete here can tell you that the gun is based on a very old design, and the inner workings should be sound. As opposed to the Mares Evo HF v1 which have had reported issues with the line release the only thing we have heard of with the PredaThor is that the shaft slider was brittle in the beginning. The have since made a better slider.

My friend you must really like the gun !
Anyways you are right about o-ring prices. I change rubber bands sooner than 1 year, it is about 18euro or more, and if I use 2 good quality bands, they cost even more! Postage, however, that IS expensive! How many sets do you think I should get anyway with the gun? I will be needing a tahitian shaft, too!

 

[Diving Gecko]

I just like airguns;-). Very good power for the size and for vacuum guns, I do think the Predathor is the best deal for the money.
That said, I only have one of them, and I haven't shot it yet. But I have the Salvimar muzzle on 2-3 other guns and the insides of these guns are very similar. The Predathor is just a facelifted version of a very old design with a newer, smarter line release (Popgun Pete could tell you which design - maybe the Scubapro?). But this is not a bad thing, this means it is a proven design.
Some say the trigger pull on the PredaThor is slightly heavy. But that can be remedied down the road if you feel it is an issue for you.

For the vacuum seals, I am not sure. Maybe two packs should be fine (that's six extra seals)? One set of replacement o-rings, so you can service your gun if it starts leaking or be proactive and change them after 1-2 years yourself.
If I remember corrrectly, Edo sells both Sigalsub and Devoto shafts for pneumatics. They are both good.

 

[Bobc]

It is illegal to do ANY kind of spearfishing using scuba gear!

Maybe this is where the confusion occurred, i enquired with someone who advertised diving and spearfishing trips as to wether I could take my pneumatic gun

 

[popgun pete]

You don't need to change all the "O" rings in a pneumatic speargun each year, in fact you may never have to do it. Those kits are for any replacement of seals that develop a leak, such as the power regulator control shaft or the trigger transmission pin as to change those seals you need to pull the gun apart. Stripping the gun down disturbs all the seals, it could go back together again reusing all the existing seals bar the seal that was a problem, however the idea behind the kits is if you think you may have damaged some other seals in the dismantling process then you can replace everything before reassembling the gun. Experience plays a part here as knowing when and where to take extra care in removing and replacing "O" rings can minimize or eliminate any risk of additional damage. Someone who does not know what they are doing could actually damage the replacements if they don't pre-lubricate the parts and use smooth tools that will not cut or scratch the "O" ring seals and their seating areas which are often smooth molded plastic.

As a general rule the oil inside the gun needs changing each year and that involves letting all the air out, unscrewing the muzzle and pulling the piston out so that the oil can be tipped out of the inner barrel. To get the oil out of the outer tank the nose cone is pulled off. The seals that are disturbed in this process don't generally need replacing, especially if you grease any screw threads that an "O" ring has to slide over to get it off (such as the inner barrel to nose cone "O" ring). This is because any sharp metal edges can slice the "O" ring, there should not be any such edges, but the thread peaks can be sharp in places if the threads were not smoothed off before the inner barrel was anodized. Changing the oil the inner barrel to nose cone "O" ring should not have to move over the threaded end of the inner barrel in any case.

Gun dismantling by users has become more common, especially for those who are curious to check out the inner workings, or want to make internal comparisons with other models, but really the guns are designed to be used without having to open them up, bar the oil change which depends on the extent of use.

The "Predathor" is a rearranged "Vintair" to create a side line release instead of the line release in the trigger finger guard area of the latter, the "Vintair" is a revised Scubapro "Magnum" from the late eighties. The "Magnum" guns were made in Italy for Scubapro and became unavailable when Scubapro ceased selling spearfishing equipment as a result of changing their priorities, however Salvimar, which grew out of "Salvi & Figli" which was a precision small parts fabricator in Italy for diving related equipment, probably made the guns originally for the US market. It was updated with a new muzzle and revised rear inlet valve cap to become the "Vintair" with a change in the color scheme.

Pneumatic guns with rear handles are pretty much variations on the Mares "Sten" except for the Omer/Sporasub guns with the detachable rear handle where the inner barrel does not run for the full length of the gun.

 

[Stamatis]

I just like airguns;-). Very good power for the size and for vacuum guns, I do think the Predathor is the best deal for the money.
That said, I only have one of them, and I haven't shot it yet. But I have the Salvimar muzzle on 2-3 other guns and the insides of these guns are very similar. The Predathor is just a facelifted version of a very old design with a newer, smarter line release (Popgun Pete could tell you which design - maybe the Scubapro?). But this is not a bad thing, this means it is a proven design.
Some say the trigger pull on the PredaThor is slightly heavy. But that can be remedied down the road if you feel it is an issue for you.

For the vacuum seals, I am not sure. Maybe two packs should be fine (that's six extra seals)? One set of replacement o-rings, so you can service your gun if it starts leaking or be proactive and change them after 1-2 years yourself.
If I remember corrrectly, Edo sells both Sigalsub and Devoto shafts for pneumatics. They are both good.

Remedy the triger how? I know for sure the sigals are ver good shafts.

 

[Diving Gecko]

it's a euro 20 modification to another thinner trigger pin and corresponding bushing. I have one, but honestly haven't tried it yet. I'd suggest you just try and see if the normal trigger isn't fine as it is.