Sea Angling for Spearos

[Mr. X]

A friend of mine totally surprised me when he tied a heavy spoon onto a string of white mackeral feathers and cast and retrieved it in quite shallow water catching pollock, mackeral and even a wrasse by this method.

That's similar to the handlines I made up for the kayak this year, although I am using cheap Lidls gel lures with lead heads to weight multi-colour mackeral feathers. (BTW Huan reckoned 2cm of red piping on a hook is very effective -- apparently used by commercial fishermen).

I lost the excellent Lidl's handline lures first time out -- 6 lures & a 10oz weight -- made to snag! I bought another (cheaper than buying the lures), ditched the weight & took off half the lures & added a 1oz weight -- much better for the yak.

Have caught mackeral from Chesil beach on a borrowed childs handline (the smallest cheapest kind) with holographic silver feathers. "Casting" was a bit of a challenge!

Bass bandits - yes, I should try those, I love Eddystone eels. It looks like some Bass Bandits are actually built over

a genuine Eddystone eel. I often tow one from the yak -- super simple, no snags. Weighting them has always seemed too much trouble to be worthwhile, the bandit looks like a good solution.

Interesting to hear about fly fishing, I really can't take on anymore fishing techniques/gear at the moment but would like to try fly fishing sometime. Much posher!rofl That whole "River Runs Through It" period must have been a huge boost for fly fishing (I met 2 couples in the US that rushed out and booked fly fishing holidays). I found out at Christmas that several of my neighbours are fly fishermen, quite serious, one 80 year old is held in awe by the others who seem very experienced themselves; one owns some local fishing rights. I'm not convinced flies would be more effective than lures/spinners though - having seen my brother in action with rainbow trout (& big pike) on spinners many years ago (inc. a day when a nearby fly fisherman blanked). Probably depends on who is using it. It obviously works though (I see Mike Ladle uses both techniques - and has signature rods for both at Veals! Actually the Veals catalog have a saltwater fly kit that looks good value - rod, reel & a couple of lines, etc. for 99 pounds (kits appeal to me more these days -- cheaper & much less bother!). My brother picked up a cheap carbon fly rod at Lidl's some time ago - hasn't used it yet. I like the idea of tying flies/making lures too - actually I tied a simple sandeel type fly/lure on a hook at the weekend ...it looks ok, I might give it a try.

Rapala fans might enjoy this: Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary

Surprised to hear folk are using #7/8 fly rods...don't know much about it but thought #8/9 or even more might be in order for saltwater. (Field magazine had an article on Nile Perch recently I think they used #12...the fish weigh up to 200lb). Is there a rule of thumb to determine the weight of gear to use? They had loads at the Game Fair last year -- Orvis had some nice ones, didn't see the price tho'.


Re. sandeels, I too think they are generally net caught. Veals sell special small feathers for Launce, small fish and "difficult mackeral"!

 

[spicer]

Mr X, The secret in the weight of the flyrod is more in the ability to cast the weight of the fly and the wind/ terrain. I caught my largest a 11 lbs 13oz trout on a four weight with a five pound leader on a size 14 cochibundu fly. I can cast in excess of 40 meters with both my 4 weights. But it also depends on the quality of the rod as you have to be able to load up on the cast and transmit the power through the loop. With the larger sandeel flies I would think that a 7 weight would be able to handle that although if there is a bit of a breeze you may want to go up to a 9 weight.

 

[HEDS]

Nice to see your using Welsh flies SPICER.

The correct name for the fly is COCH Y BONDDU .
Funnily enough very often mis-pronounced and mis-spelt.rofl

 

[spicer]

:friday HEDS I do not discriminate on origin in any walk of life (perhaps only in rugby)and if it works it works. My favourite fly of all time for trout is a Parsons Glory which I believe is a New Zealand fly. I have caught more trout on that then you could shake a stick at both in South Africa and in the UK. Unfortunately getting the rightly tied specimen is very difficult and although I also have all the tying kit and enough feathers to create a flock of peacocks I simply do not have the time or patience at this stage to do it. Thanks for pointing out the spelling. Is it Welsh for ugly little fly like bug?

 

[HEDS]

:friday HEDS I do not discriminate on origin in any walk of life (perhaps only in rugby)and if it works it works. My favourite fly of all time for trout is a Parsons Glory which I believe is a New Zealand fly. I have caught more trout on that then you could shake a stick at both in South Africa and in the UK. Unfortunately getting the rightly tied specimen is very difficult and although I also have all the tying kit and enough feathers to create a flock of peacocks I simply do not have the time or patience at this stage to do it. Thanks for pointing out the spelling. Is it Welsh for ugly little fly like bug?

Quite spicer - i just found interesting how the name has slightly changed [not suprised!!] and also the meaning has also gone down the bog . Traditional welsh flies names have their roots often in colour or comarisons of colour . For example 'Coch lliw gwin' means 'red colour of wine' [This is for a claret fly] I dont exactly now what 'coch y bonddu' translates to , but , this is what i make of it - Coch - Red / Y - And [that bit is simple!!]
Bonddu ; Bon-Stump or Root ddu-Black [Referring to the colour of the body of the fly OR the root colour of the hackle feathers]
So i think my personal translation would be : Red and Black Stump
As i say - there is probably a correct reasoning/translation to it somwhere , finding it is another thing !!

 

[spicer]

I considered setting up a new thread called "flyfishing for spearos" but considering the likes of Island Sands etc. thought that it may invoke some naughty responses on some nasty crab catches and other indescribable things that should normally be safely concealed in a wetsuit.:naughty

Anyway has anyone had success with a good fly for mullet? I am tempted to go for a small whitish fly or shrimp imitation?

 

[Mr. X]

Anyway has anyone had success with a good fly for mullet? I am tempted to go for a small whitish fly or shrimp imitation?

I see Mike Ladle uses a v. small white homemade maggot fly, made out of floating plastic foam -- & sometimes adds a few real maggots to the hook (not essential but works better apparently). He also uses tiny Delta eels -- like an Eddystone eel but really small, and sometimes "woodlouse"-like flies. Check out his mullet fly fishing video on YouTube: Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary

Pav, thinking about the Bass Bandits, I already have a couple of things in a similar vein. I have assorted gel minnows, some include a substantial weight in the head and a single hook up through the top; cheap, came in a set of 6 in assorted colours/patterns. The others are smaller & require hook & weight (lead head?). I have only tried one (the least promising looking, in case I lost it straight away!) -- seemed pretty good, cast well & having only a single hook on top they tend not to snag, can be used to cover deeper ground (I used it after loosing one Toby & breaking the treble hook freeing another). I really should give them another try. (Anybody using gels regularly or caught on them?).

 

[HEDS]

Although i have never caught a mullet on a fly - i know a guy that gets the fish feeding on breadcrumbs for a while [with a sling shot , or a bait bag] then casting a white foam floating fly imitating a breadcrumb over the fish.

 

[Mr. X]

HED, we used to use balls of ground bait (a paste from purchased dried bread crumbs) to attract in fish, mainly bream (coarse fishing), to maggot bait with good effect. I sounds like floated maggot bait works in the sea, so interesting to hear how these techniques have evolved for the sea.

 

[Mr. X]

BIG Lures!

[Its raining again!] I saw a boat fishing preparing to go out at Kimmeridge a few weeks ago and he had the most humungous lure I have ever seen used in the UK. Probably about a foot long and brightly coloured (like a huge Rapala). I asked owner what it was for and he said "Bass".

I was curious how big a lure you can sensibly use for bass...and if there are any special considerations techniques? (I have heard it said that a bass will take on fish almost to their own size!!)

Old Man Dave (OMD) in Guernsey caught a bass on a huge popper, early in the year in Guernsey (looked a bit like the Grauvell Super popper & Surf poppers, although different colouring/pattern).

I already have several XL poppers: 2 rattlin' silver Cotton Cordells (the one in the image above is the smaller one!) and a blue one which looks v. similar but is a different brand. I also have a cool/weird looking, shorter, chunkier more modern plastic one that is brightly multi-coloured - definitely designed to get noticed. I also have a brightly coloured 16cm Storm/Conrad Rapala-style lure. Originally I got a couple to fill out the range -- for super long casts. Although I now think they might just be something to try -- perhaps if it looks like the bass are feeding on something big, like mackeral, or might need something different to get them interested (a big, easy meal!).

I have tried trolling one of the bigger Cotton Cordell from the yak, briefly. I suspect this is not the optimal way to exercise a popper -- but it looked viable.

Also, any suggestions for lures to catch other species from the shore/kayak? Bass are a magnificant fish but I'd be happy to take other species (mackeral, mullet, flatties, pollock,...).

 

[Mr. X]

Waders...

Not sure that I can justify waders yet but did a little checking around. I looks like the in-thing is breathable chest waders (with "stocking feet") with separate wading boots. They can get pretty fancy and expensive (Hardy's offer a very nice set) but Shakespeare offer something similar at a much more reasonable price (esp. if you shop around on-line...saw them on deep discount on one site) -- they look pretty good too.

http://www.grahamsonline.co.uk/store.php?cat=15

The other thing I found re. grip on rocks is felt soles -- something fly fisherman have been using for sometime apparently. Some boots come with felt soles & studs -- would think the studs might prevent the felt making contact with the rock but perhaps not(?). Having found all this out, I read an article this week in a Sea Angling mag. from last year & the guy describes the waders he recommends for seafishing in the last couple of paragraphs - typical! He mentions felt not being so great on muddy slopes getting to the beach -- maybe that's where the studs come in (some boots have a felt sole but a gripped "cleat" heel for similar reasons).

 

[Mr. X]

Braid link

As mentioned previously I was surprised how easily my 16lb/7.33Kg/0.097mm Whiplash braid broke when a lure snagged weed - esp. as it was knotted to 15lb mono.

It also struck me as little odd that folk generally recommend 20lb Fireline or 30lb Whiplash for the same job (i.e. bass fishing with lures) - as both are made by Berkley, why not use the same ratings? Somebody has published on-line the results some simple tests they made on braids: [ame=http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=369015]Line Testing Results - SurfTalk[/ame]
- it explains the recommendations, if not the reason for the rating discrepency.

 

[foxfish]

Well that is the main compromise you have to except with braid - not easy to tie a reliable knot. I think you will find people refer to line diameter rather than breaking strength when recommending braid. The fact that braid has a much lower diameter than mono for the same strength allows you to use higher breaking strains to help the knot strength.

 

[Mr. X]

Managed to fit in a visit to couple of fishing shops today, along with a spearing sesson under challenging conditions [see thread: Dorset Spearfishing 2007 for details] & two short bouts of lure fishing.

At the fishing store in Swanage I picked up a couple of new lures (it's an addiction). They seemed surprisingly good value. They cost £3.50 each which seems quite reasonable to me these days! However the designs & finish look really good, the hooks are plenty sharp enough and the overall quality seems above average (not as tough as wooden rapalas I suspect though).

The first is a Double MM Pencil Popper(with bulbous rear end). I love the design of this - like a mini-version of the big Grauvell poppers. I went for blue/silver with black dots on the lateral line (as I noticed ML caught several bass using similar pattern Maria lure a while back). They also had 2 other classic colour schemes available: red head/white, & black/brown with pale blue lateral line & silver belly -- which looked a lot like the minnow fish I saw today -- about the same size too); I was tempted to buy all 3, but poppers tend to last. I think it is about 11cm/22g. Casts like a little rocket but is quite slim; the hooks look too big to me (like the highly rated Yo-Zuri Crystal minnows). I accidently smashed it against a wall really hard & generally abused it, & snagged it; it stood up very well. I like (& apparently need) tough gear.

The other lure is a Shakespeare 'Devils Own' lure. It is basically a plastic Black & Silver J-11 design (12g), at half the price of the wooden Rapala. The upper black section has a holographic finish, which reminds me of mackeral (v. cool looking fish). Casts well & the action looked ok in the water. I get the impression that Black and Silver Rapala J-11 used to be the standard lure for ML, against which all others are compared.

Fished briefly at Swanage & Kimmeridge. Didn't catch anything, although managed to foul-hook a mini-mullet (about 6 or 7cm - smaller than the lure!). Last time I fished that spot, the guy I was with did exactly the same thing. (Both released alive).

I found myself using poppers and a bigger, slightly deeper silver/blue Rebel jointed-Minnow a lot today - to reduce weed snags (which seems to be a common problem). Although I did use a J-13 & the Shakespeare J-11 in clearer, deeper conditions.

When do you guys use other classic lures -- like Tobys, Dexter Wedges, Bass bullets Mepps & rubber (Eddystone/Delta/Redgill) eels -- and also the new weighted gel lures? Is it mainly for distance/depth/clear water? (I find the above work cover most of the conditions I have encounter so far). In Wareham, I managed find a few of the spiral weights that you can use to weigh lure lines today -- although much smaller than I wanted. 3 stores reported being unable to get them now. Funnily enough, in one store, an older guy asked for the same thing shortly after me (they feature in a popular fishing book, a Cornish/Kenyan colleague also recommended them too). Great idea, pity you can't get them anymore - would be a quick a simple way to weight an Eddystone eel.

Also saw some of the tiny 2cm delta eels that they use flyfishing for mullet...at 99p they seem expensive compared to a "proper size" eel ... but in the scheme of things good value if they catch a fish!

 

[Mr. X]

Managed a little rod fishing at the end of the day, today. Regrettably, only after I was quite certain there were no fish left to spear hmm that might be a problem). Although I think I might have found a hot mullet mark -- but you've got to be there at just before high tide, because they all leave once the tide starts going out.

Finally tried out the my Daiwa TD Pencil popper. Casts very well (even better than the similar size Maria BW; pretty subtle popping action though -- much less brutal than the big Chug Bug.

Also tried a vintage US lure I picked up a while back - a Bagley's "Bang o-lure" #5. It looks a lot like a 12.5cm rapala stick lure (like the Husky Jerk) with a black & silver J-13 paint job, it has a dive lip too; however the unusual feature is the propeller behind at the tail treble hook. The lure is a bit light compared to the previously mentioned lures, so didn't cast quite as far. I loved using it though, it seem to operate just under the surface -- but created a visible ripple in the water behind. I like spinning and, to me, this seemed to encompass elements of a classic lure, with some of the excitement of a spinner & a popper. Nice lure. Looks similar to the middle one of these but with 3-treble hooks*:

*Don't like 3 sets of treble hooks on a lure -- they snag too much (especially clothes & fingers). It has crossed my mind to try removing a set from a couple of smaller lures.

 

[paddyc23]

coreano or americano worms, brillant bait, long shank hook, baiting needle, thread whole worm onto hook, i usually use a 2 hook rig, by using three way swivels, fairly heavy wait on bottom of rig... ive caught big bass,sargo,horseshoe makeral,borro....very good bait...try it

 

[Mr. X]

Got to cast at 3 locations for a total of about 2 hours or so last week. Thought I had one bite but, in retrospect, probably not. Spearing & diving was so good it was hard to squeeze in the rod fishing but managed a little on my 2 days off diving, mid-week (fridge & freezer were full, my chest bruised, my ear & feet sore from spearing).

Meadfoot Beach, N. Torbay, S. Devon - lost my Maria Chase BW - recommended by ML - on the rocks 2.5 lamp posts east of the ramp, if you are in the area. Silly me, I could easily have waded out to it but snapped the line trying to tug it free. The 17.5lb Whiplash braid again broke ahead of the mono lead (15lb or 12.5lb, I forget which), knots, clip. A couple of locals recommended fishing later in the evening, when the tide was in further - but our schedule, as usual, did not allow for it.

Blackpool Sands, S. Devon - didn't loose anything. A little girl about 4 or 5 told me fishing is not allowed here. When I asked how she knew, she said there was a sign. When I asked where the sign was, she said her brother told her! I was done anyway, so cast one more time & packed up. I checked, there are no signs. A few others were fishing there too -- none seriously, all holiday makers (like myself) cast a lure for a short while. Best stay at either end, away from the lifeguard protected swim area (although saw people fishing there too at quiet times).

Torcross, Slapton, S. Devon - didn't have long at all here. Just made a few casts while scanning the restaurants. Lost a v. nice, large, silver & blue, vintage Rebel Jointed Minnow - just snapped off when the bail arm flicked over mid-cast. Again, the Whiplash braid broke rather than the 12.5lb mono, knots, etc (can see why they recommend 30lb rating for Whiplash). Almost everybody else was casting feathers, Dexter wedges or using bait to catch mackeral, from the beach & from little boats. Several had been successful. Had I more time, I would have tried a wedge lure and/or some prawn feathers that I had in my bag.

Tried a cheap black 15cm rubber eel (not a real Eddystone lure) from the kayak on a couple of short forays -- its "movement" is rubbish compared to the genuine article. I have now changed my rig to use 2 blue & white Eddystone eels instead, a largish one on the back (15cm?) and a smaller one (11cm?) tied into a loop (snood?) a yard or so in front -- I'm much more optimistic about these catching.

 

[Cisco_Kid]

Does anybody know if you can get hold of peeler crab in around the weymouth area??

 

[stuckinsurrey]

Hi Cisco,
Not sure about fresh but should think the tackle shops (by the harbour bridge, and on road to portland) would stock them frozen. Also am pretty sure that you can mail order them from the adverts in the back of sea angler etc. Alternatively, should think that you could catch your own with a few well placed tyres and pipes. Think they are seasonal (magpie would know) so that probably affects the availability a lot?
Jim

 

[Cisco_Kid]

Cheers Jim..have a look around.