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Selfmade fiberglass fins
- Thread starterZmagoj
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
That makes sense phil!
So another question: how about using UD fabric but layering preferentially in the same direction at small angles? Would that likely be strong enough? For example for a 3 layer fins with layers at 0 degrees, 30 degrees, and -30 degrees with respect to one another.
BTW For those ordering from the USA, this site seems to sell all the required stuff except flow media (the green mesh in Zmagoj video's) www.uscomposites.com
So another question: how about using UD fabric but layering preferentially in the same direction at small angles? Would that likely be strong enough? For example for a 3 layer fins with layers at 0 degrees, 30 degrees, and -30 degrees with respect to one another.
BTW For those ordering from the USA, this site seems to sell all the required stuff except flow media (the green mesh in Zmagoj video's) www.uscomposites.com
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Tried making them, all my results and description / video can be seen here.
[ame="http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=496214428008"]Login | Facebook[/ame] - video
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Didnt work out too well, but will be making them again but maybe only with wet-lay up.
With the infusion the resin only got about half-way before stopping, it seemed that the pump could no longer draw it down? how ever i got pretty good results with the failed infusion - pouring resin everywhere and turning it on again, not even squeeging resin onto each layer... and the bag had a leak.
Also quick question. My Layup for the fin was 280twill, then 3 layers of alternating length 280 twill (i think at 88%. 44% and 22% for memory), then one layer or 600 UD, and then 1 layer of twill how does this compare to your fin equation with 280 twill. How flexy is this for a bi fin? fairly good, stiff or soft?? Also how does the spring of the fin compare to when you dont the have 600mg UD in there?
I really like the green color, the resin pigment worked really well, Zmag you should try it....
Apart from that it worked well, cant wait to try it again, but only wet lay up this time as i know that it will 100% work untill a later date for the infusion.
Thanks.
[ame="http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=496214428008"]Login | Facebook[/ame] - video
Login | Facebook - photos
Didnt work out too well, but will be making them again but maybe only with wet-lay up.
With the infusion the resin only got about half-way before stopping, it seemed that the pump could no longer draw it down? how ever i got pretty good results with the failed infusion - pouring resin everywhere and turning it on again, not even squeeging resin onto each layer... and the bag had a leak.
Also quick question. My Layup for the fin was 280twill, then 3 layers of alternating length 280 twill (i think at 88%. 44% and 22% for memory), then one layer or 600 UD, and then 1 layer of twill how does this compare to your fin equation with 280 twill. How flexy is this for a bi fin? fairly good, stiff or soft?? Also how does the spring of the fin compare to when you dont the have 600mg UD in there?
I really like the green color, the resin pigment worked really well, Zmag you should try it....
Apart from that it worked well, cant wait to try it again, but only wet lay up this time as i know that it will 100% work untill a later date for the infusion.
Thanks.
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Fabrication de voilures de palmes
this could be helpfull for composite fin lamination, site works only whit microsoft internet explorer
this could be helpfull for composite fin lamination, site works only whit microsoft internet explorer
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Thanks for the link! I also plan to do a numeric analysis of the mechanical bending (a friend will help) and will compare the results with the facts on this site.
So I am back from holiday. We performed some tests and dived to -45m with fins and -53m with the monofin. The test conclusion is a bit confusing: the equipment is not so much important, its the diver who counts.
The fins are very soft, but still adequate for a deep dive.
The mono is maybe a bit too stiff.
I also had a chance to speak with someone who claimed to be Polish monofin champion in the pool (a long time ago, 3 time champion) who found my mono a bit too stiff.
Regards,
Zmago
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I, very very interesting post ...
I am also on the way of fiberglass fin construction. but I am still on the study phase...
Actuaally didi you finally do the numerical analysis of the fin blending.. and another question .. what was the final confisuration of the fins you did.
Thank you very much
P.
I am also on the way of fiberglass fin construction. but I am still on the study phase...
Actuaally didi you finally do the numerical analysis of the fin blending.. and another question .. what was the final confisuration of the fins you did.
Thank you very much
P.
Hi,
After summer, the project has been on hold. However, I plan to conduct the analysis soon. Maybe as soon as the next weekend. After that finished I will also post the laminate plan.
regards
I don't think it will be easy to find the ideal laminate plan by numerical analysis. It's hard to model the effect of water (inertia and current) on the shape of the fin. I guess the best fin shape is that which moves the most water for the least amount of effort, but that sounds complicated to model. I guess that most manufacturers find a laminate plan by trial-and-error and experimentation.
On another note, many manufacturers now use 'double vacuum infusion' which is supposed to lead to better results (higher fiber to resign fraction). Double vacuum infusion is the same method presented by Zmagoj in this thread except that there is a second vacuum bag over the first bag. The first bag allow the resin to flow across the fiber and the second bag adds additional compression to the laminate.
On another note, many manufacturers now use 'double vacuum infusion' which is supposed to lead to better results (higher fiber to resign fraction). Double vacuum infusion is the same method presented by Zmagoj in this thread except that there is a second vacuum bag over the first bag. The first bag allow the resin to flow across the fiber and the second bag adds additional compression to the laminate.
Great thread... (as many have already said). I dont think anyone have mentioned color though.
What if I dont want fins to be transparent, what do I have to do? SHould I add 1 layer of Carbonfiber instead of thick UD fbrglss? Or maybe add some pigment to the epoxy when molding?
What footpockets were you using for your bi-fins? I have Omer Stingrays, original plastic ones, but I want to change them for a soon-to-be-built fiberglass blades, but there is a problem with Stingray blades. THe blade itself is easy to mold, but edges along the sides have these ehh "sticking out reefs" wich are later placed inside the footpocket. I dont think I can imitate these with fiberglass =[ SHould keep trying with Stingrays (one of the most comfortable footpockets for me) or just get Millenium footpockets? Your insight would help alot. THanks :blackeye
What if I dont want fins to be transparent, what do I have to do? SHould I add 1 layer of Carbonfiber instead of thick UD fbrglss? Or maybe add some pigment to the epoxy when molding?
What footpockets were you using for your bi-fins? I have Omer Stingrays, original plastic ones, but I want to change them for a soon-to-be-built fiberglass blades, but there is a problem with Stingray blades. THe blade itself is easy to mold, but edges along the sides have these ehh "sticking out reefs" wich are later placed inside the footpocket. I dont think I can imitate these with fiberglass =[ SHould keep trying with Stingrays (one of the most comfortable footpockets for me) or just get Millenium footpockets? Your insight would help alot. THanks :blackeye
for color, like you say, either pigment or adding a layer or carbon would work. I personally like a little transparancy in fiberglass fins just to make sure the composite is well infused.
About fitting the tendons of the footpocket to the blade. Most people glue them together with superglue like in this video.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSsfeJt7uSE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL]YouTube - Trygons fins gluing[/ame]
I have also had sucess with 3M 5200 marine adhesive but the footpocket needed to be cleaned very well with acetone and sandpapered before gluing.
Some people just cut off the tendons of the footpockets like Breier fins in the picture above. I have tried this and it works well.
About fitting the tendons of the footpocket to the blade. Most people glue them together with superglue like in this video.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSsfeJt7uSE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL]YouTube - Trygons fins gluing[/ame]
I have also had sucess with 3M 5200 marine adhesive but the footpocket needed to be cleaned very well with acetone and sandpapered before gluing.
Some people just cut off the tendons of the footpockets like Breier fins in the picture above. I have tried this and it works well.
Thanks, Cid. It does seem ok glue the tendons to the blade... And I guess I will add 1 CF layer as well. Just remembered one more thing. Regular Stingrays have a special pin on the blade to keep them attached to the pocket (so there are 2 screws + that pin). the question: do I have to come up with one like that in my project or just skip it? The pin I m talking about is the one on a right side. Thanx
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I will just leave the pin out of the project.
Thanks for the input =]
So now when I am familiar with main points I m ready to order stuff online.
Since I dont want transparent fins, I will use a layer of carbon (or kevlar) in the middle. Carbon is more stiff than glass, so I can substitute 600UD Glass fiber (as in SmagoJ's setup) with a Carbon 200g twill. I believe that its a positive change. (It must have that nice look =] ) I am based on CYprus so a choice of stores was limited. I want to use only one online store, and unfortunately it sells either 290g plain fiberglass, 390 and 160 twill. That was a point I stumbled upon. Which is better to be used? I can make 4 layers of 160 twill vs 2 of 290 plain, or 1x390+ 2x160(I AM extremely confused here...)
What I personally think is that a good setup would be:
160 twill glass
160 twill glass
200 twill carbon
390 twill glass
160 twill glass
ANy thoughts?
Thanks for the input =]
So now when I am familiar with main points I m ready to order stuff online.
Since I dont want transparent fins, I will use a layer of carbon (or kevlar) in the middle. Carbon is more stiff than glass, so I can substitute 600UD Glass fiber (as in SmagoJ's setup) with a Carbon 200g twill. I believe that its a positive change. (It must have that nice look =] ) I am based on CYprus so a choice of stores was limited. I want to use only one online store, and unfortunately it sells either 290g plain fiberglass, 390 and 160 twill. That was a point I stumbled upon. Which is better to be used? I can make 4 layers of 160 twill vs 2 of 290 plain, or 1x390+ 2x160(I AM extremely confused here...)
What I personally think is that a good setup would be:
160 twill glass
160 twill glass
200 twill carbon
390 twill glass
160 twill glass
ANy thoughts?
you can use any of the fabrics you mention. I would personally use 290g or 390g because you need to buy and cut less fabric.
It's hard to know how stiff the layup you describe will be, because it depends on many parameters. Best to learn by experimenting. If it is too soft, add layers next time and vice versa.
Also depending on how the resin is cured (room temperature versus heated) the time to fully cured composite can vary between hours to days. I've made fins that appear really too soft when I take them out of the peel-ply, only to become medium stiffness as the resin cures to 100% after a few days.
good luck
It's hard to know how stiff the layup you describe will be, because it depends on many parameters. Best to learn by experimenting. If it is too soft, add layers next time and vice versa.
Also depending on how the resin is cured (room temperature versus heated) the time to fully cured composite can vary between hours to days. I've made fins that appear really too soft when I take them out of the peel-ply, only to become medium stiffness as the resin cures to 100% after a few days.
good luck
Cid, can you please post some info of your projects? Seems like you have much more useful experience in that are than any of us (fiberglass beginners =]).
SImple stuff like
#1:
300 g twill glass
200 g tw gl
200 g tw gl
600 g UD gl
verdict: too soft.
#2:
200 g tw gl
150 g tw gl
400 g tw gl
400 g tw gl
600 UD gl
200 g tw glass
verdict: too hard.
Just for a more competent background when chosing layers to add =]
SImple stuff like
#1:
300 g twill glass
200 g tw gl
200 g tw gl
600 g UD gl
verdict: too soft.
#2:
200 g tw gl
150 g tw gl
400 g tw gl
400 g tw gl
600 UD gl
200 g tw glass
verdict: too hard.
Just for a more competent background when chosing layers to add =]
I have plenty of experience with fins that turned out bad. too soft, too hard, not fully infused with resin, broken in pool, etc... So far I have made 9 prototypes and only 1 is usable! I'll post the layup tomorrow when I get some time to measure the length of the layers. But I'm making short fins for underwater hockey so the layup will be different than freediving fins.
Hi all!
It is nice to see that the thread continues.
I promised to post a new laminateplan which would guide other DIY builders, but that takes quite some time for experiments and I've been really busy with other (business) things.
If you are trying to laminate for the first time, beware that my fins are pretty soft. Try to make them harder (thicker) on the footpocket side and thinner on the tip. A good approach is the one I used at the beginning of the thread - triangular shaped fiberglass cloth, which will stiffen the footpocket side and soften the opposite.
Much also depends on the footpocket. I used pathos fireblade and omer millenium. I think, that the millenium are much better a choice due to their soft horns,which don't compromise the spring performance of the blade.
PS
If you want to get it in color, you can purchase a colored (black) fiberglass or use a pigment powder. It is a much cheaper way to do it.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Zmago
It is nice to see that the thread continues.
I promised to post a new laminateplan which would guide other DIY builders, but that takes quite some time for experiments and I've been really busy with other (business) things.
If you are trying to laminate for the first time, beware that my fins are pretty soft. Try to make them harder (thicker) on the footpocket side and thinner on the tip. A good approach is the one I used at the beginning of the thread - triangular shaped fiberglass cloth, which will stiffen the footpocket side and soften the opposite.
Much also depends on the footpocket. I used pathos fireblade and omer millenium. I think, that the millenium are much better a choice due to their soft horns,which don't compromise the spring performance of the blade.
PS
If you want to get it in color, you can purchase a colored (black) fiberglass or use a pigment powder. It is a much cheaper way to do it.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Zmago
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I hope that you started a hand-made fin production studio. Zmagoj, I think because of you a lot of freedivers around the world got enough confidence and some basic knowledge to start working on their long-awaited projects.
=]